Erebus and Regulas and General Balance

I love Erebus' abilities.  They are neat and fun to use, but seriously after playing a few games with him I realized how much wasted potential was in his character.  First of all, I realize the game isn't balanced yet, but I feel pointing out the problems with the character can help in the balancing process.  Now, why does his mist scale in such a retarded fashion.  What a sweet but completely useless skill.  So you activate it at level 4 and die?  Is that its purpose?  Who in their right mind would even level it past level 2.  I got it to level 3 by accident my second game with him to try another build, and I just went WTF...why did they even think to do that. 

Also, the ability in itself is completely useless against heroes in comparison to other heroes. 

You stun for 1.5 seconds compared to torch bearers 15 or whatever. 

Minions can't keep up with your batform. 

You drop potions?????!!!!  Why what a useless ability in its current form.  750 damage who the hell cares you deal 1250 to yourself by the time you can even turn your mist off.  His abilities need to be synergized. 

Mist does more damage to him and will kill him near other heroes.  Also WHY there is a COOLDOWN on mist to deactivate it, I have no idea.  You can't turn it off within 1 second.  WHY. Should I have to carry 20 health potions, so I can even use the skill at level 3 or 4?

For example if his mist silenced heroes who were in it then bat swarming in and using mist would make sense in a team battle.  Currently you bat swarm mist and die because the enemy needs to move 2 feet to avoid taking 400 damage per second compared to the auto death you put yourself into since you will be focused right after you exit the form. 

Furthermore, I want to say Erebus is not a bad hero.  He is just severly underpowered compared to the others.  Which makes me beg the question, why are all the other hero's so powerful to beging with.  Although Erebus' skills need to be synergized better, his skills and his strengths are what I see as balanced.  Basically unlike all of the other heroes who are  overpowered, Erebus should be the standard on how powerful a hero should be.   Furthermore, why does the damage have to scale so high in this game.  600 damage per second what the hell.  Nerf everything in the game, so maybe the damage can actually scale between Demigods and Creeps.

Which gets me onto my next point, Regulas.  He is a "complete" hero.  He has no real weakness. 

He can slow people with maim and mark people with that rune crap that deals 300 damage and slows. 

He deals more damage in combat since he is an assassin.  Not only this but when you try and run from him he can chase you down and shoot you. 

When his maim wears off, he snipes you and kills you. 

What the hell, why would you make a character like that.  No slow.  He should get no slow at all.  Regulas can stun, slow, throw mines for AoE, and snipe.  He can do everything.  Give him some weakness. 

Furthermore, why are "generals" even generals.  You control so few creeps in comparison to what is actually on the field.  Generals are basically Chen from Dota, but at least his creeps have abilities.  At least Chen's creeps could stun or net or whirlwind or slow.

In fact, when you are balancing this game rework all of your numbers over the entire game not just the heroes.  Give creeps more health to make them useful.  Creeps die instantly even when the Demigods are level 1.  Demigods have nothing to fear except other demigods.  Even general creeps are a joke.  Demigods shouldn't be able to be as powerful as they are through the entire game and action from start to finish.  The numbers need to reworked from the ground up, so the endgame and beginning game differ in strategy.  Right now its the same exact thing from level 1-20.  You kill weak creeps and run when you can from other Demigods.

2,845 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top

Holy crap wall of text.  Would you mind breaking it up a little bit?  My eyes hurt.

 

p.s. not trying to be offensive, but seriously I'd like to read your post but it's a little tough at the moment.

Reply #3 Top

Wow, giant block of text. Edit:  Now much better.

I found the Erebus to be a little powerhouse if you used him right, able to take down any demigod in a knockdown, drag out fight and up to three if you kite correctly.  Only trouble is if you get stunned with no minions around.

Bite is ridiculously good for such a short cooldown ability, I completely ignored Mist and his Bat attack ability just levelling up Bite, his Coven set, and late game his Aura.  I even ignored his stun for a couple games to see how that worked and it worked pretty well though you are reliant on his bat teleport to take you out of stun range if you see a stun animation start up.

His minions are really what gives him staying power, as he becomes an efficient kiter if the opponent tries to kill minions or ignores them.

Regulus is definitely better this time around, and is certainly the most well rounded (which is funny since he used to be a one trick pony).

Weakest one this build seems to be the Oak, as he is almost entirely focused on support and damage prevention abilities.  A good team player, but can only really lay down the hurt when he's dead.  Though the game where his Last Stand persisted through to his next respawn made for a fun five minutes of steamrolling the map.

An example of how powerful Erebus is:  Me and 4 easy AI erebus took down five nightmare AI assassins.  Not saying players wouldn't handle erebus better, but I'm still working the generals out to see what works and what doesn't.  Erebus is my favorite by far.

Reply #4 Top

Okay, I read your whole post and agree with all of it. 

I'd like to see Generals be more like the Holy Knight or the Prophet from DotA.  Command a few small but strong creeps or summon a fair amount of weaker creeps to push a tower, with useful support abilities.

Reply #5 Top

There are probably effective ways to play him.  I admit I haven't tested him drastically.  I just felt that his mist was completely retarded.  Getting past level 2 is useless and hurts you.  I wanted to try a bat swarm mist combo and all that happened was I would do damage, try to mist for a kill, get half my health taken away because of mist's cooldown, and then get sniped and maimed to death on my way out or chased down by a uber fast oak/unclean one.  Regardless if there are other ways to play him, mist is currently broken.  If I was to play him again, I would get one level in mist, max his minions and bat form.  I would then buy health items and sit in the middle of the creep waves.  My creeps would pop up, and then I could just use those.  As I leveled from creep killing in mist.  Mist is a broken ability that deals enough damage to destroy creeps at level 1, but competely makes you useless at level 3 and beyond.

Reply #6 Top

I should have clarified I was talking specifically about mist, and how I felt he did not feel like a fully synergized hero like Regulas, who I still believe shouldn't slow.  Seriously how many more slows do we need in Demigod.  Torch Bearer, Unclean One, Regulas, and each has more than one.  Regulas should get more love in my opinion.  Maim is a cheap way to finish out his skills and makes him really annoying.  I need to sleep haha.

Reply #7 Top

I agree, mist beyond lvl 1 is useless. But mist lvl 1 is also really strong. Particularly combined with his bite ability and life steal items. He is one of the most durable in combat. Mist is most importantly a defensive skill (which is probably why it has such a long cooldown), to prevent bursts of damage in big fights (you can't be "trained" by a team of assisters).

The negative health potion thing is cool, but it's not very good since it affects the friendly demigods as well. As a torch bearer, it's not fun losing 1500 health when you pick up a potion from your fallen friend. Yes, I should have paid attention. But it's not like demigods stand out in combat, and this applies to the vampire more than any other.

I disagree that the vampire is underpowered overall. I think Oak and the vampire are currently the two strongest demigods.

Reply #8 Top

The negative health potion is a bonus, although, it would be nice if it acted as a regular health potion for friendly demigods.  That line is really about the health regen and the vampic aura it eventually leads to.

I am personally finding Erebus to be an absolute beast.  You are just focusing on the wrong skills.  You don't level mist past 2, you don't level mass charm past 1 because it gets worse with level (you don't care about the grunt stun, you shred grunts with an unholy fury using mist.)

My suggestion:

1st point mist, use this to shred mobs and power level.

Max bite

Invest 1-2 points in coven early, this works well with mist

You can delay your mass charm investment.  It functions mainly as an interrupt.

Take bat swarm as soon as you can get it and max it fast, it is downright amazing.

 

If you doubt the vampire just play against a hard or nightmare AI and you will quickly realize he is hard to kill and quite a threat.

Reply #9 Top

Bite is currently overpowered as hell - it would probably be far more balanced if it had a longer cooldown, and didn't have all those secondary effects (or different, less powerful secondary effects).

Reply #10 Top

I played with a couple friends yesterday, and one of us used erebus. we played against nightmare AI, and Erebus outperformed us on every level. I was talking with him at the end and he said he thinks Ere is overpowered atm.

 

Sounds like the OP just was clueless how to use him. You only take mist to level1, and you use it to powerlevel up the first 5 levels versus creeps. Erebus should usually be the top leveled demigod from what I saw. Bat form is great - Erebus was the only demi in our match who had 0 deaths. He would be a strong hero with no minions, but when you add in minions as well as a solid demigod, he seems slightly too strong to me. Fun mechanic imo.

 

And if you think minions are too weak - get a few bishops on the field and then re-evaluate. Those bishops are pretty great.

Reply #11 Top

Buy the upper level siege archers. The Absolutely demolish buildings. I usually rape buildings with them on one side of the map and battle with erebus/oak else where.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Cowbuttzex, reply 11
Buy the upper level siege archers. The Absolutely demolish buildings. I usually rape buildings with them on one side of the map and battle with erebus/oak else where.
End of Cowbuttzex's quote

Have you noticed enemy AI demigods ignoring them like I have?

I attack a tower and an AI demigod hurries over.  I stay in a different lane levelling while the cannoneers go up the outside of the map destroying towers unopposed until they start hitting creeps or a main building.

Reply #13 Top

In my opinion Regulus is the worst demigod.
So there is a difference in our opinion :D

And I would stop playing any generals or even demigod if the generals minions would be so overloaded that it plays like a chen from dota...

 

I mean sure it would be nice if your minions could do something else than doing damage...

but pressing tab + skillhotkey for every minion (chen plays like that) is no improvemt over minions which do everything with one attack order.

 

So please dear developers! Don't make demigod as overcomplicated as dota.

I mean the feature of "last hits" is speaking for itself right?

Reply #14 Top

i think tc point on creeps being to easy is very true.. with unclean beast you can out probably a never ending wave once you have a few levels which is stupid. make creeps more of a threat