People enjoy games, well ok not everyone...but at the same time, I do not like coming here and seeing post after post about politics, how we are destroying ourselves, so on and so forth. I do not have my head in the sand either, I just choose not to voice my opinion on volatile issues.  As long as I have been a member here, and it was and still is my first home, I have never felt as comfortable, as accepted in the forums as I have the last couple of weeks.

    And that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

I dont want to get into this dirty debate but this crap always draws you in and leaves a bad taste in your mouth... Ive been to Israel... and cant imagine anyone want that piece of sand and dust.. holy land my a**...... anyway reading this thread i see no real information just a blame game... the jew and palestinian problem is old.. and was even problem before ww2.....

I belive that without any external help mainly from USA and UK there would not have been a zionist state therefore no palestinians parading photos as the thread starter wrote.. US want israel as a base for continued middle east involvment with OIL as the main thing not those "terrorists" they are hunting bringing war to a whole nation... HELL why not just nuke the whole middle east it's just muslims and jews anyway... not people?? 

All this just makes me sick..... if you want to blame something blame the goverments not the people... and if you are american alot of the struggle in the world comes from your "peace loving" nation.. indirect or direct

 

Now how about locking this thread

 

 

...some reading about the forming of the "National home for jews"

http://www.mideastweb.org/us_supportforstate.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

I don't know if I'm reading this correctly, but to me, it doesn't sound like you're blaming the United States government (as opposed to the United States people) when it comes to the world's struggles.   

Some of us who live in the United States don't always agree with what our government does.  Actually, I think at this point most of us who live in the United States could find something we dislike about what our government does (which is why I keep hoping Johnny Depp will open the borders of his island in the Caribbean for immigration). 

I see all I need to in photographs, vids etc... the face, body... says so much.. without words.

no lengthy paragraphs, history lessons needed.

Would have to be a blind man to not see this coming at us like a tidal wave.

 

Quote........(which is why I keep hoping Johnny Depp will open the borders of his island in the Caribbean for immigration)........Unquote.

Been there and worked there with Disney............Fun place.........The Flying Dutchman is anchored there permanently......but it's Disney's private place away from the rest of the world   

After tribal leaders, organised religions were the first systems of government, and as with all governments, no matter how good their intentons were, they become too lustful and greedy for power, wealth and resources... thus we have religions today that are as corrupt and evil as any government. 

And it doesn't matter which form of government or religion, either!  Whether they be fascist, total dictatorships or 'so-called' democracies, Christian or Muslim, the upper echelon is only in it for themselves and uses everyone below them to do their dirty bidding.

Sadly, human nature dictates that a Worldwide revolution to topple the powers that be will not resolve the situation, for others with lust and greed in their hearts will rise to take their places.

I have no time whatsoever for government or organised religion, they suck big-time because they send young men and women (sometimes children) to fight in wars they haven't the balls to fight themselves.  Personally, I'd give the UN some real teeth by getting rid of the indecisive and airy fairy diplomats and replace them with a firing squad that can go in and execute a few of these all-powerful murdering trouble makers, whether they be political or religious, doesn't matter.

Yup, mow down a few World big-wigs with bad rap sheets (Mugabe, Sadr, Bush, etc) and it'd make others think twice about sending young men/women off to die/kill others.

Perception is everything.  Maybe you're seeing what someone intends you to see, and not seeing what they don't want you to see, in which case you're viewing propaganda.  A picture may paint a thousand words, but those words might not necessarily be the real story, and maybe it's not the WHOLE story.  Maybe there is a reason for the faces and the bodies in those pictures to look like that.

Since I value peace, I am not going to take sides in Palestinian/Israeli conflict.  It's not my war.  I don't have any blood vested in the conflict.  Taking a side now would be like taking sides in somebody else's domestic dispute.  It's a needless risk for me to take.  

This much I WILL say.  I dislike what Islam does to women.  I was angry at the murder of Theo Van Gogh, and I got even MORE angry when I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, "Infidel" (Hirsi Ali had been the reason Van Gogh filmed the movie "Submission" which what enraged the Moroccan who murdered him to engage in that act).  IMO all religions are, on some level at least, toxic, and Islam is particularly violatile.  However, I don't think fueling the fires of anger will every bring peace to anyone.

I want to lead by example, and that example is to not get played by the emotionalism of pictures and one-sided stories, but to remain calm, deal with the crap I already have on my own plate, and let the rest of the world take care of itself.

Karen...just got back from dinner. Although this is John's thread, and this is OT, I will tell you that Apartheid was a policy of segregation based on "race".

The Security Wall was built to keep suicide/homicide bombers (and other just plain homicidal types) out by dorcing them to go through the security checkpoints.

A more accurate parallel would be if Pres. Bush ever got the border fence built to force people wishing to enter the USA through border check points....somewhat like the sides of a funnel. In fact, since it has been completed, the number of bombings has dropped radically.

There was never an "Apartheid" (a la Jimmy Carter) aspect to it. That kind of false argument tool likens something to a hated policy and by the inaccurate linkage forges negative opinion (and sells worthless books).

Sorry if I misinterpreted, m1. I'm Jewish, but I don't think Christianity or Islam, etc. are any less valid: It's not a matter of either/or (for me) /or not (atheism, etc.) If a person behaves within reasonable norms...all's cool. The fact that I know you worship the Munkeh G-d doesn't bother me in the slightest, banana boy...

NT...It wasn't a white. American boy. She just told you that to make you feel better. It was the fact you're a 'skinner' (and a damned fine one IMHO). 

We love you too, TG...if it becomes acrimonious I'll unplug. Everyone has a right to be heard with respect and no fear...unless, of course, they disagree with me...then we break out the nukes...

Halleluiah, NT!

You asked for it NT:

I absolutely agree:

I agree with that, Philly...but that is not what is happening. Israel is stopping exactly what you object to. If someone is out to murder you, you have a choice...and calm, logic isn't one of them when the killing is being done by remote control. You can die or stop th one who wishes to kill you. In this case they were given all the chances to stop. They did not. Therefore active intervention was absolutely indicated.

 

 

 

 

I applaud this...except that I believe that if some want organized religion, they can have it. Just so long as it stops short of the end of my nose.

The only problem being that the UN is not a democratic organization....there is one Jewish state, and 22 Moslem ones...that would yield justice? Starkers, current human nature is the problem:

"I can win." is the essence of the problem. The "ary fairy" remark is not right, and I think you're just "tongue in cheek"-ing it. I hope so, anyway.

I love ya anyway, bro.

 

Thanks for answering my question, Doc.  I knew it sounded too weird to be the way that article made it sound, because why would Jewish people erect a wall, since that's what Hitler did Warsaw? (unless they had Stockholm syndrome or something, it just didn't make any sense).

Like I said, when Levi was in Iraq, part of his job was to truck the cement pieces to put up walls to keep the trouble out of the green zone, but apparently U.S. erected safety walls aren't near as indestructible as Israel walls. (Levi hated his job in Iraq, BTW.  He felt if there was a way to institute an honest govt. and we gave them money for reconstruction, all the turmoil would go away, at least near Baghdad, because the biggest problem was poverty and decay.)

I'm well aware of the suffering too k10w3, happens on both sides... the difference is there aren't militia's of rocket toting, hooded thugs on the other side, from what I see, one side is civilized, one is far from it.

Look at some pro Isreal rally photos... distinct difference.

It amazes me that some people can look at something so obviously tilted and equivicate it somehow.

Heres the news, were in for a long hard fight to the death with islamic radicalism, the kind I spoke of in the original post. If you, or anyone else wants to try reason with them, accomodate them, then good luck to you.. you can not reason with evil. you cannot accomodate someone who's only wish in life is to kill themselves while killing as many innocents as they can in the process.

So when it's on your doorstep, when the bombs filled with nails and ball bearings are going off at the mall where your children hang out...don't come crying to me.

 

 

Dunno how indestructable the wall is....with human ingenuity? LOL...it's doomed.

My late wife was born in Baghdad and her family left shortly after her oldest brother (she was the baby...number 10) was set to be hanged because he believed in an Israel. (ref LINK) they had lots of stories to tell...but a month before her death, while in the ER she interpreted for three yound Iraqui males who spoke little english...

Corruption is really endemis in Arab governments (in all gov'ts...good old greed)...So an honest government ain't about to happen there (and if it happens here...I'll be wearing one hat less - it'll be in my digestive tract).

Why was there a Saddam...well, it took a monster of that caliber to hold that country together. Prediction? OK since you insist ( )... that place'll come apart 5 minutes after we're gone.

Yep, it was all pretty much tongue in cheek stuff with regard to the UN... I am a pacifist and do not advocate the killing of anyone for any reason, so it was a way of venting my anger and frustration at the needless violence going on in the World  However, I refer not to the Israeli - Palestinian conflict specifically... there is needless killing going on in Zimbawe, Afghanistan, Iraq, Darfur and other parts of the World, all in the name of politics and/or religion, and that sickens me bacause the innocent always suffer most.

The better solution to a firing squad would be for their water supplies to be contaminasted with happy pills so they all throw down their rockets and guns... or alternatively put in sleeping pills so that while they're asleep we can go in and remove all their weapons.

 

You are right, and I think that I alluded to the fact it is human nature that is responsible for the atrocities being committed in the name of politics and religion throughout the World, which is a sad indictment against those supposedly at the top of the food chain/pecking order.  Yes, politics and religion have a lot to answer for, but government and religious groups are made up of people, and until mankind becomes truly pacifist the political and religious killing will continue.

Peace and love to you too, Doc.... and Ed, and everyone here at WC.

Oh heck, peace and joy to the World.

That's because the Pro Israel rally took place in SEATTLE! (A town that hosts "Hempfest" - it's a lovely tolerant town).

No critical thinking: We're taught "There's no such thing as black or white."

Nonsense. Hamas is trying to take Israeli lives and Israel itself. Israel is saying, "Enough is enough. We are taking you out of the equation: You deny our right to exist in peace with your rockets and maniac bombers? Well, the answer is no more Hamas: Surrender or die."

And that's just fine with me. No sleep lost over cowards who shield themselves with the bodies of women and children.

The Israeli soldier does the exact opposite, like real men everywhere and everywhen. We stand BETWEEN our families and war's desolation: Not BEHIND our families putting them in harm's way.

 

Any Isreali rally.

Rest my case.

I've always figured a better way would be to send in some sneeky rascals to kidnap the leaders of movements, dope them up with hallucinogens, have our best actors take on the role of whatever deity that movement adheres to, and act out that deity instructing that movement;s leader that they read the rules the wrong way, and they need to change the path their on to one of nonviolence, then restore the leader to the place they found him as if nothing happened.  At the very least it's an interesting experiment that shouldn't cost us $410 million a day!  I don't understand why doping isn't used in place of waterboarding.  Under physical duress, a person will say anything -- trippin' out of their mind, it's all what their subconscious believes.

Spot on! And that's why Bush f**ked up big time when he decided to invade Iraq.  First off, he didn't understand Iraqi demographics or the volatile nature of the religious and cultural differences within the populace... hence the anarchy and rise in terrorist activities since the invasion.  I applaud what President Talibani and Prime Minister Maliki are trying to do in uniting the Iraqi people, but sadly, when the US withdraws, Iraq will erupt in civil war and another 'Saddam' will rise to power.

Iraq needed to resolve its own issues and evolve in its own way, without outside intervention... and hopefully, those who all think they are the World's policemen will learn from that and stay out of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.  These two peoples need to sort this thing out for themselves... because an enforced peace through intervention would only be an artificial peace that would not last once the occupational forces withdrew.

We may not agree with the violence, politics or religious beliefs in the World's trouble spots, but that does not give us the right to invade, set up occupational forces and ram 'so-called' democracy down their throats.  It serves only to build resentment and to exacerbate the problem through those who 'patriotically' refuse to accept it and fight back with whatever means they can... which is why George Bush is a total mug for invading Iraq.  He opened a bloodier can of worms nobody knows how to close.

I don't know if you missed my posts where I state my son fought in the Iraq war, but that IS bombs filled with nails and ball bearings going off at the mall where my children hang out!  I LIVED 18 months of close calls, used up all the luck I ever had because the kid in front of him was sent back in little pieces but he missed it by a fraction of an inch, and hearing about the near rape about took everything out of me that I had.  If it was ON my doorstep, at least I could have participated -- living 18 months with my heart outside of my chest on foreign soil, while I lived impotent in my own household is a hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but I know a lot of valiant people endure every day.

I didn't go crying to anyone.  I took it one day at a time, dealt with the crap I had in my own daily life, took my antidepressants regularly and it worked out okay for me.  

We have enough stuff RIGHT HERE that needs our attention.  We don't need to go looking for more stuff to be enraged about.



That's true.  But you can't beat it by joining it, either.

Then u should know, if you have lived it, why i am saying, what I am.

Correct.

By your line of reasoning, Karen one cannot actively oppose a killer who is bent on your death by killing him in self defense?

You must not have thought that through:

Dispatching the person who is bent on your death is not "joining it".

It's ending it.

Gonna go to sleep, kids. Thanks for a good Forum.

 

I know WHY you are saying what you're saying, but I think there is another way of stopping it besides extermination.  Current regimes and governments, unfortunately, are not willing to think outside the box for the answers, though.  They're making too much money, and becoming too powerful, doing it the old fashioned way.

I just think there has got to be another way of dispatching killers besides killing them first.  Obviously, killing them only turns them into martyrs, which only spurs on more killing.  Starkers is right...we need to start deploying chemical weapons of a different type (i.e., "Happy pills").  

Or Viagra.... then they'd be too horny to fight.

That is all I have to say