Nano Disassembler and Flak

As for the Egg / Evacuator, if you have a fleet, you should be able to kill it almost as fast as it and some assailants can kill your cap.  The Evacuator is easy to kill....just put your Illuminators on it while you pull your caps back.  Once any race has a big fleet, it is easy to kill a capship, unless it is something like a Kol or a Kortul...or if they have tons of repair with them.  Bottom line, don't leave your caps in the middle of the gravwell where they have no time to run if the other guy has tons of firepower.

To MindEye,

Regarding the advent fighters im totally with you, I've been frustrated many times by those drone host.  I exclusivly play as TEC and unfortunately its just not worth it, matching his carriers/squads count to yours because for some reason it Tec will fail.  Once advent takes half of your fighters your carriers already useless. So heres the order of assult as tec

Dont make all carriers to match but instead use resource on 20 to 30 Lights cobalts  wwith laser upgrades as far as econ can afford. then enemy will make Illums to counter you but i would will switch from cobalts to more carriers and spam LRMs to counter his counter. once you lessen his carriers at this point flanks is an option but if you micro ur cobalts correctly and killed half of his carriers flanks are not required as you will have more fighters and air superiority and only then you can control the sky.

For me tho. the unfairness is with illum stacks, with   40+ stacked illums divided into 2 squads both doing focus fire on two targets @ same time is too effective mid game   Caps will get destroyed ASAP no doubt so a lvl6 marza is pointless.   I never tried this but if ever i see another 40illums stacked up, would upgrade on LRM's AOE be a good choice as far countering illums numbers?

Those that would say build a hc, well thats just like the cap problem as not having enough fire power to lessen illums number in time before hc can be focused fired by illums massive numbers and destroyed just like a cap ship would. And econ cant really handle mass HC against cost effectiveness of illum stack.

Is there an effective solution for this problem? Ive seen good set of battle balls recently and would that be an option for illum situation?  I really dont do battle balls at all so those with exp on that type of setup let me hear what you think. Looking for answer from skilled player or from those PUG community :)  DT and [_] community, teirs 1-5 rofl jp.  anyone i dont care

ToroRosso PUT THE HAMMER DOWN

F1 SEASON COMING UP   SOON.

The damage on Nano Disassembler is way too high considering it bypasses mitigation and also gives a significant armor penalty. It should be around 200/400/600 instead of 600/900/1200.

Lvl 3 Nano Bomb pops frigates in one go and wrecks caps very quickly. Lvl3 Nano Bomb is also much stronger than Vulkoras' lvl 6 Disintegration which is just wrong.

Not wanting to hijack the anti fighter thread....but ..um...you use FIGHTERS to kill Illuminators!  If they have more fighters & flak than you AND more Illuminators than you have other ships...well...then they are probably going to kick your butt. 

But oh so right. Disintegrations damages enemy ships and uses the damage done to restore the vulkora's. While the nano bomb is like sweet sweet buttsex in a can, you can't go wrong with pure pwnage producing viral destroying nanites. So it makes sense that nano bomb is purely distructive while Disntegration is both restorative and destrucitve.

But the main problem with dismantler is that their is no counter. Unless your fighting in your own system and have the repair bays you can't match our out repair the 30 dps to hull. And even vasary cannot neglect the -6 armor point with its support ship. And for each point of armor lost that means roughly 5% more damage done to target. So lvl1 -2 armor emans +10% dmg, lvl2 -4 armor means +20% dmg, lvl3 -6 armor means +30%dmg. Now combine that with phase missile that will ignore mitigation you end up with a shit load of damage from just 1 abilaty that has no counter to it otehr then to killt he cap.

So nerfing the nano dissambler and uppping the Vulkoras lvl6 Disintigration would amke sence in that it make and ultimate abilaty more valuable then a standard one, makes other vasary caps valuable and its actuly now possible to defend counter the abilaty wich makes for a greater balance.

I like Nano Disassemblers.  But they should be modified to do 50% damage to cap ships. I think that would be a good change, it would still be deadly in combination with a fleet, but it wouldn't be so powerful in 1v1.  As is, it's just pure evil.  The way it works on frigates is fine.  75 antimater to kill one frigate is ok with me.  It can't kill all frigates, it wont even kill a 600 hull frigate with 600 damage because of natural repair.

And to compensate for the nerf to cap damage maybe make it 360 degree cast, or at least make the slowing skill 360 degree.

I do agree that Vulkoras lvl 6 needs to be buffed a bit.  I think while it's channeling the skill Vulkoras should be phased out/invulnerable to all damage.  This would make it a much better skill. Because while using it now you probably will take just as much damage as you heal, especially in a big fleet fight.

1200 damage, cutting through armor mitigation, can end up being over 3000 "real" damage. That's more deadly than the Kol's gauss cannon, by a long shot.

Nah 1200 damage is what it does total. It ignores mitigationa nd armor and deal 1200 flat over time.

Kol does at best 800 per shot instantly that get mitigates by 57% to 344 dmg now armor come sinto play and for each point fo armor its equal to roughtly 5% damage reduction and with at that early point in game vasary egg having 4 armor thats a 20% further damage reduction. So 344 -20% = 275 damage.

So Vasary egg wich is a colonising back line cap does 1200 dmg plus remove 6 armor point making the target ship take loads of damage for the cost of 75 antimatter.

And TEC KOL wich is a frontline battle waggon that deals only a meger 275dmg for 75 antimater.

Math doesnt add up thus point a break in the balancing.

But of course to better point the break the Vulkoras's dissasemble is a much better indicator.

Kol does 800 damage, but the mitigation afterwards goes up to 57%. So the second shot will do 344 damage (if instantly fired w/o cooldown), but the first shot will do 680 damage (factoring in 15% mitigation).

get a radiance....problem solve

Actuly no since with 10 or so assailent he only needs to hit you once with the abilaty and your fucked. 1 shot is all it takes.

Cykur... Initial fleet of 15 lrf and the egg can decimate ur cap even if you have 15 ilums I dont think you could match it. Level 2 or 3 egg is EXTREMELY dangerouse with that many assailants. Its hard to even run away. If they show up you might as well get your cap out instantly or say bye. I dont play vasari so I dont know what level it is but when it does -4 armor is really bad. Even if your tech you dont have hoshikos in the begining and even if you do my cap barely survives to run away by that point in game. I mostly play advent and its the same thing because advent has no repair ships till late. It just really makes the game not fun when all you can do is run and keep your caps away from the battle.

Sorry I fail at quoting, but...

If you are playing as Advent you use drone hosts (yes, I know they are expensive as hell) who sit at the edge of grav well. Each one holds 3 squads, which you should put fighters in. Those things dont play around, and the numbers stack- 50 of those will kill an illuminator in 2 passes (thats something around 1.6k damage, you can number crunch). Yes, they cost 1.2k credits and atleast 225 of both metal and crystal, but if you want to kill assialants it is your best bet as advent. Sorry TEC fans, I've been playing Advent once I noticed the late-game strike-craft numbers.

P.S. Don't forget to micro!!

Yeah, all I'm trying to say is don't put your damn capital ship where it is going to get killed.  Illuminators are good at killing capitals, if he wants to risk his Evacuator, kill it.  If it runs, chase it, or finish off his assailants.  Vasari doesn't have repair early either, it is often not that hard to chase off an Evacuator or kill it if the enemy doesn't pull it back fast enough.

I totally agree, Evacuators are very deadly anti capital ships, especially backed up by assailants, generally starting at level 3.  But Advent have many tools at their disposal, and some very powerful ships, so play to your advantages...in this case, your capital ship is not one of them, so keep it on the opposite side of the gravwell where it can soak up experience while your Illuminators and fighters pick at the Vasari.  Is it fair?  Maybe not, but after hundreds of games, I can't tell you how many Evacuators I've lost because I didn't disengage fast enough.

Play to your strengths...Advent has many.

I got to thinking, as a side note, this is not entirely correct.  The Kol shot is armor piercing -- no armor mitigation, only shield.  =) 

I never leave this on, btw...I only micro it.  If you use it as an alpha strike on ships that haven't taken damage yet, you are only getting 15% mitigation, so you are applying closer to 680 damage rather than the the most pessimistic viewpoint.  I also have used this to take a huge chunk out of structures which have no mitigation, especially helpful with the rapid 6 second cycling time.  Not trying to say it is a great ability, it isn't, just trying to give some pointers on how to get more mileage out of it.

I don't want to get farther off-thread, but lets just say each race has some ships with more powerful abilities, and there has never been a direct balance between the ships...ultimately, they are best for their utility abilities.

At endgame, I don't even dare put my Evacuator in combat most of the time, it is so easy to kill ...it is much more valuable as a world siege ship.

Why would you get rail gun now? I get shield and flak.  It is more likely you will run into lot of carriers in 1.12.

Cykur:

Thanks for the anti armor thing but that still doesnt help much. I am using the 57% mitigation sicne that is what you will face msot fo the time not to mention that the egg your be shototign at will be lvl3 by then and that mitigation will actuly be higher. Also I know fo the trick you mention and do use them. I was onyl using the gauss as a coparation sicne it was brought up by someone else.

Also i would point out that the dissasembler is better at taking out structures then the gauss gun. 1200 dmg vs 800 in adition to smaller armor mitigation for you fleet thats shooting at it.

To Astax why would you get rail gun? Because even thou flak is more valuableand that rail gun is very weak, is that when you use the gun right it's not half bad and if you ahve say like 4-5 kols with rail guns you can cause alot fo damage. But the damage is roughtly equal to what 1 egg would do with 1 shot from lvl3 dissasembler.

As for end game you shouldnt worry about losng your evacuator. In end game i notice lost fo people have very bad target calling capabilaties. They all focus on your caps and if your econed your self properly you can afford to lose the caps and keep replacing them. The result is that your taking only cap loses while him he losing his fleet. I've been a few bad players that way they just don't get that by killing my cap spam their not eliminating the real treat. But that is for and other tread.

Yes, Gauss gun isn't that great....it isn't even a good comparison, if Gauss Gun was anywhere near as good as Nano on a ship as hard to kill as the Kol, the Kol would be a dream ship.  Kols are still very handy without it.  It is just there to give you an antimatter dump to squeeze some more damage out of the ship.  It is also pretty handy if you have a Dunov with Flux Field, which allows the Kol to pretty much use it as much as it wants for the duration.

Indeed

The strong point of the Gauss gun is the really short cooldown. It can deal lots of damage quickly especially to structures and with Flux Field / Finest Hour it's just lethal.

I'd still like to see the Damage on the Nano Disassembler cut because using the Evacuator feels like cheating.