[BALANCE] The Forces of Darkness are squishy

Also, they taste good with milk

from Demigod Forums

  I've played a couple games in the Pantheon tournament, on the light side (mostly as Oak).  So far, every single game seems to devolve into a mop-up operation where we hunt down the dark-siders and splat them repeatedly.  I may not be playing at the refined level that some of the posters here are, but I do think that the light side has an advantage (evidenced by the fact that they have a 33% advantage in favor points as of this writing); I'm sure someone will write back and say that you just have to be an expert, and then the dark side is fine, but IMO the game should be reasonably balanced at all levels of skill.

 

  I think part of the problem is that the dark side just doesn't have anyone who can stay in a fight for very long:

 

  1. Torchbearer -- he's a typical mage.  Catch him and he's dead.
  2. Queen of Thorns -- Like a mage, but with wimpy spells.  Her only hope is that you can't beat down her Brambles; once you do, it's all over for her.  (I guess she can also eat her minions, but I don't think I've ever seen her actually do that)
  3. Unclean Beast -- scarier at dealing damage and faster, but he seems just as squishy as the others, with the additional disadvantage that he can't stay at range to fight.  Harder to catch, but not much harder to kill.
  4. Erebus -- I'm not sure about him.  He seems to go down pretty easily, but I haven't played with or against him enough since his rebalance to have a good feeling for where he stands.

  Compare that to the light side (NB: I haven't played against many light-side characters in this beta; this is just based on playing them):

  1. Rook -- He's a walking tower, with HP and armor to match.
  2. Oak -- He's an armored knight, with HP and armor to match.  Not as beefy as the Rook, but still formidable.
  3. Regulus -- He's an archer.  Catch him and he's dead.
  4. Sedna -- low armor / HP, but with her healing abilities she can hang around for a while.  Unlike QoT, she also packs quite a punch with her bite ability.  (and don't get me started about Yetis!)  I'm not sure how tough she is in this beta; I haven't played her much and I haven't played against her at all.

  By my count, that's three very killable characters on the dark side and one that has somewhat more survivability.  On the light side, we have two characters who are tough to take down, one that's really "squishy", and one that may or may not be (Sedna).  I could be totally mistaken, but I think this needs a little recalibrating (but I don't know in what direction).

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Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

I totally agree with you, I play darkness side matches and since Pantheon is basically random fights against ai, well obviously it's going to be in my favor, but still darkness is WAY underpowered compared to light at the current stage of beta.

 

My suggestion in another thread is restore QoT to her former beta 2d glory, her spells still sucked but compost and fire on the run made her a good strategic and actually decent class to play as.  Biggest problem is lack of hp class, only way to fill that void is the Beast, he needs huge boost to HP, and yes I realize he attacks insanely fast but his dmg even then is pretty sub par unless you buying lots of dps items.

 

TB is probably the one class that's holding Darkness together right now, totally damage specific, but in lot of trouble if they survive your spikes because of long cooldowns on most spells.  And lastly Erebus is kind of a joke right now, his best tactic is max out mist and sit in a high traffic area and tic ppl to death.

 

I look forward to see what GPG can do in regards to balance, but honestly I'd like to see atleast 2 more classes one on each side to fill the gap of balance

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I actually brought this up in IRC last night as well, and completely agree.

 

In addition to the TANKINESS of The Rook and Oak (as well as a non-Summoner Sedna) Three of the four Light-side Demigods have skills that are centered around taking down an enemy Demigod with extreme speed.  The Rook has Hammer Slam (which doesn't have to hit directly), Reggie has ungodly amounts of damage output, and Sedna has Pounce.  Oak has a solid DPS, the ability to shield himself from damage, and the ability to heal like a madman.

 

Simply put, the Light-siders are focused on eliminating the enemy Demigods.  And in the meantime, they have a pretty solid amount of ability to deal with enemy Creeps (which you can completely let your creeps deal with if you keep enemy Demis pushed back)

 

The Dark Side is the side of the Glass Cannon.  Torchbearer has plenty of methods to control enemy creeps, and some GREAT stunning ability... but he's about as soft as Sedna's pet's underbelly (I would've set Catapultasauri, but I imagine with the ability to use their tail as a catapult, they must have some very strong abs).  Erebus suffers the same problem as TB.  While he has great crowd control abilities, one sight of a damage-focused enemy Demigod and he's sent running for the hills.  And without Bat Swarm or some kind of increased speed item, there's a good chance Oak or Reggie will run him down.

Then comes QoT.  She's another great anti-Creep, or even a great Siege if you build her that way.  But, short of her Bramble Shield, she's got the same problem as the other two.  Bramble Shield is a great skill and all, but it can't carry her the same way as just being a walking castle can.

And I don't have enough experience with UCB to judge him, but he looks like a slower, weaker, DoT version of Rook with faster attack speed.

 

But at cursory glance, it definitely seems the Forces of Light brought a much stronger set of candidates for the throne vacated by the Progenitor than did the Dark.

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Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

yes to say the truth i believe dark side seems a bit weaker than the light side. Light side has some very sturdy heavy hiting demigods while dark side has many low hp/armor with medium/high dmg, but dmg cant be compared to light in some situations.But right now we cant say so many thing since connections are so good and we cant test too much.

they must first finish connection problems and then head to the balance issues

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

Ok lets do a run-down of the dark side...

Unclean Beast: Damn powerful. Yea an AI UB sucks. However if played right he is one formitable foe. I always play as him and he is one tough cookie.

Tourch Barer: A very strong offencive demigod. You have to know how to play him though. In melee he is like paper, but if done right he can deal amazing damage.

QoT: I don't know good strats for her yet. Though like sedna she could be an amazing support char with the super armor debuff and the absorption shield.

Vampire Man (however you spell his name): Quite a killer guy. Bite = can't escape, heal, damage. His damage teleport is killer. Deals lots of damage. And can avoid hammerslams or boulders by turning into fog. What is there not to like?

 

I would argue rook right now is underpowered. His hammer is very powerful but usually gets interrupted. He also seems slower than most demigods which means that he can't catch up to ranged DGs or even a kiting unclean beast.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting astonerbum, reply 4
Ok lets do a run-down of the dark side...

Unclean Beast: Damn powerful. Yea an AI UB sucks. However if played right he is one formitable foe. I always play as him and he is one tough cookie.

Tourch Barer: A very strong offencive demigod. You have to know how to play him though. In melee he is like paper, but if done right he can deal amazing damage.

QoT: I don't know good strats for her yet. Though like sedna she could be an amazing support char with the super armor debuff and the absorption shield.

Vampire Man (however you spell his name): Quite a killer guy. Bite = can't escape, heal, damage. His damage teleport is killer. Deals lots of damage. And can avoid hammerslams or boulders by turning into fog. What is there not to like?

 

I would argue rook right now is underpowered. His hammer is very powerful but usually gets interrupted. He also seems slower than most demigods which means that he can't catch up to ranged DGs or even a kiting unclean beast.

 

i agree with ub and tb they are both very good especially ub at late game

but i cant say same for qot and lord erebus

erebus= bite is useful but the dmg is low campared to other demigods and slow+armor debuff doesnt last long

mist is good to escape death but it is very easily countered by the others since they can heal to full with other items and just w8 erebus get out of mist and start attacking him again.

I cant really say erebus dmg is as good as other demigods

QoT is nice ranged demigod but has low armor and it is based in mana a lot,

 

both of those demigods are generals, maybe generals are supposed to be like that but they should have minions as well but right now minions dont worth points/money

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

I figured out after writing this post that the reason I was always splatting the dark side players was that they were all AIs.  :grin:   Here I thought I had just gotten a lot better between betas...

 

Maybe once things are working and we can play against actual people it'll be a little clearer how things stand.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

What it is is that Light side players are playing more than Dark side players are against AI's. Some people capitalize on the fact that these AI matches are easy favor and an easy way to help your side win the tournament. Is it really something to take pride in, though?

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Yes, its sad that QoT was once powerfull and fun to play, and now sucks hard. And I know she was playing like an assassin, but at the moment having minions sucks anyway, all but spirits.

On the topic, light has more resilience, but darkness has some nice damage and combos.