[Feedback/Suggestion] Allow player to view enemies/teammates items/(possibly) skills

from Demigod Forums

In beta 3 it seems that the player base is dividing into two disparate groups with not much in between.  You have the good players, who generally know what items to get, how to play their character, etc... and you have the bad players who are comparatively clueless.  Now over time, bad players can get an idea of how to play a specific demigod, gameplay wise, by observing how the better players that they are matched with play those demigods.  

The part that is missing however, is that it is not easily observable how those players are building up their demigod in terms of items and skills.  Right now, it takes a much more advanced player to be able to deduce what items the opposing Demigod has by simply watching the game.  A newer player is not going to quickly figure out that their DG is moving 25% slower because the opponent has the slowing gloves, or that they can't cast as quickly as normal because they are getting mini-stunned by their opponent's mage-slayer.  Many games end with one side dominating the other, and leaving the people on the losing side without much idea what they did wrong. (Unless the winners decide to share their knowledge).

Skills are generally easier to distinguish because they have more pronounced effects, but for a newer player who hasn't yet had a chance to practice each and every Demigod, this could still leave them confused as to what is going on.

One of the design principles for Demigod that has been said everywhere is that it should be "easy to learn, but hard to master." The exclusion of tools such as this one that facilitate users in learning and adapting to opponent's strategies over time, greatly hurt the "easy to learn" part of that motto.

I don't expect this to be a popular change with everyone, especially after seeing the debate that went on about showing opponent's mana.  As a compromise this possibly could be allowed/disallowed under game options for custom games, or possibly the opponents items/skills are only available.

The general goal for the Demigod community as a whole IMO should be that everyone can at least play moderately well without investing too much time into learning the complexities of the game.  By moderately well, I mean that against the majority of teams, they aren't going to feed, die unneccessarily to towers, etc... The real challenge for a demigod player should be moving from the moderate skill level into the upper tiers of competitors through skill instead of item builds.  By allowing lower level players access to the strategies of higher level players, this dynamic could be more easily achieved.

1,813 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

I made a similar petition too: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/341181

It's neccessary to counter enemy heroes to see what they have, this is a clash, not a farming race to the best build.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

When they have replays you will get all the information you seek

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Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

HorseRadish - I dont think you get why people are wanting to view the demigod items right now.  Its not so that you can figure out what people are you using for items after the fact but its so that people can stategically counter certain builds.  This is a big deal stategically because it should not be cut and dry get these 5 items every game for a certain character.  If you are allowed to view other players items you can come up with couters to them on the fly.  This has nothing to do with replays watching them after the fact and being like "o wow that guy did well because he had those 3 items".


If you do not know what the other players are going for on the other team your always going to play the same way.  By seeing what other players items are you can "build" your character on the fly reactively and not play so static.  Its simply a stategic value that is missing right now when it comes to options and which items you should be getting.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I am dead set against displaying an opponents items and gear.  It gives too much away during a match and doesn't allow me to use surprises.  Replays are really all I will need.  If I get my ass handed to me I'll watch the replay and see what kind of build my opponents were using and work out some counters for future matches.

I will not always play the same way.  It is not difficult to work out if an enemy has a high armor build or is stacked with attack speed items.  I will adapt to the tactics and abilities of my opponents just fine without seeing their gear.  Knowing exactly what they have just makes it too easy to turn builds into boring rock/paper/scissors affairs.  Oh he has item X, I'll counter with item Y.

Now one thing I have come around on is displaying an enemies mana.  I think that will add to the game play a lot more.

 

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Mana is something that I wouldn't want shown. It would give my enemies too much info.  I could maybe see a benefit for it on teamplay.

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Arisal, reply 3
HorseRadish - I dont think you get why people are wanting to view the demigod items right now.  Its not so that you can figure out what people are you using for items after the fact but its so that people can stategically counter certain builds. 

I completely agree... Why wait until after you've spent 20 minutes being stomped by opponents to get an idea about how to counter them.  Make it a more competitive, more worth-while game instead.

Quoting techubus, reply 4
I am dead set against displaying an opponents items and gear.  It gives too much away during a match and doesn't allow me to use surprises.  Replays are really all I will need.  If I get my ass handed to me I'll watch the replay and see what kind of build my opponents were using and work out some counters for future matches.

I'm not suggesting that a player should always be able to see all of the opponent's items.  I'd think that it would be best if you could click on an opposing hero and have their items come up on the side of the screen as little circles etc. This would mean that you have to have vision of an opponent to see what he/she has.  This still allows for the surprise aspect right after you buy something, as for most of the game, the opponent doesnt have vision of you and your base.  Also, the fact that certain amounts of money are necessary to by new items, limits the speed at which people can react to surprises or changes in opponent's items. I may really want to buy the blink trinket to counter your brand new slowing item, but if I dont have enough money yet... its not going to happen.

Also, with most items, a skilled player will be able to deduce what you have. If you suddenly have 1500 HP more than you did, a skilled player could deduce you bought item X and therefore also got armor bonus Y. This affects the newer, less experienced players who don't have an innate knowledge of every item in the game and it's effects.

Quoting techubus, reply 4

I will not always play the same way.  It is not difficult to work out if an enemy has a high armor build or is stacked with attack speed items.  I will adapt to the tactics and abilities of my opponents just fine without seeing their gear.  Knowing exactly what they have just makes it too easy to turn builds into boring rock/paper/scissors affairs.  Oh he has item X, I'll counter with item Y.
 

You might not always play the same way, but how many people will?  I'd be willing to bet that most people will try and stick with their cookie cutter builds as in general those are most effective.  By allowing players to view their opponent's items, however, this encourages some diversity in items as smart players will try to counter their opponent's strengths.  Also, no one said that this has to be a simple He has X, I'll counter with Y scenario.  Ideally, it would be a "he has X, should I counter with A, B, or C?" type deal.

 

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

At minimum there should be consumable item that allows you to view a players items.  How is this not stategic?  Your getting vital information on how to couter a certain player because you know what they have and can deduce their weakness.  Its not like your ruining a big surprise I dont see how that could be the case.

Think of this as scouting in an RTS.  Those who do it are generally really good because they know something you dont know.  If its at least an item, you dont know who knows what, since its just one more option to give the player some intel they already may not have known through observing other players.

 

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

posted a similiar suggestion to view other DG's items too

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/337312

Some valid points were discussed in that thread,  please take some time to read through them.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

/me signed the list for customers who want to see the items of the enemies.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

It should be an ability of a demigod or an item which you buy that let's you see an opponent's items.

 

I oppose free view of items in the inventory of a player, unless it's on your own team.  You should be able to see your team's items.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

In the older Beta Versions you got CVS-Files with detailed listing of damage, gold, equipment, skills that were used by all participants of a match (even minute-by-minute). The current Beta doesn't store this info anymore (at least not at the same folder and I havn't look very thoroghly lately).