Game with Devs Needed

I think a game with Devs vs Good Players is needed.

We just had a 3v3 tourny, and it was obvious some things were broken. (looking at interupts/stuns here). Play a game with us and you will understand...its something that you cant really explain, more you need to experience.

I suggest that we have a game vs the Devs so they can experience first hand some of things that are broken with the game. No offence to the Devs but I think the majority of them arnt at some of the testers skill levels and so havent had a chance to abuse some gameplay mechanics.

Thoughts?

5,193 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top

I agree totally and I think it would be fun to battle them

Reply #3 Top

It being fun I guess is just a bonus, but the main point here I think is allowing the devs to experience some of the unbalance first hand. I think this is a really good chance as you rarely actually see devs who are willing to get involved in with the community like Stardock do a lot. Ive played a game with Frogboy once, but I dont think playing with random teams actually exposes some of the unbalances that you can do in an organised team.

Reply #4 Top

i think its a nice idea but i thikn if good players play vs devs, and good players wins, they must after that talk about ways to counter things because devs may not be able to  counter something and change it even if it isnt op

Reply #5 Top

i think its a nice idea but i thikn if good players play vs devs, and good players wins, they must after that talk about ways to counter things because devs may not be able to  counter something and change it even if it isnt op
End of quote

Yup, talking about it with them is good idea :)

Reply #6 Top

Demigod in a well organized team is just boring right now. Nearly everyone has a stun, you even don´t need practice in this game. It´s just about: "w00t, i´m clicking the stun, after 2 seconds again and wait, all my mates have a stun too. BOOOYAAAA!"

I´m not complaining about the "fairness", it´s very easy right now to own completly.

I thought, a number of 8 demigods will lead us to completly different play styles. But what we have now is just ludicrous. Sry, but it´s just a failure in all aspects. Don´t know how long you brainstormed over those "different" skills, but hey, you even promised us generals which are able to build basic structures to get minions. So, it´s not a surprise.

Reply #7 Top

I kind of agree about the minions. Once the dev's get wiped clean by stun, and are basically stunned during 90% of the battle with the enemy, they'll be like "Damn, that's too much stun!"

Reply #8 Top

What would be extremely helpful would be posts that are specific.

I.e. Item X does Y that causes Z.

We're reading the forums but a lot of the posts are very vague.

Reply #9 Top

A HINT GUYS! A HINT! Lets start rewording out phrases and make them unreadable to normal users! (just kidding, really. I get what you mean)

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 8
What would be extremely helpful would be posts that are specific.

I.e. Item X does Y that causes Z.

We're reading the forums but a lot of the posts are very vague.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

It's not just the items it is the Demigod combinations and their stunning / slowing skills.  Example A Rook boulder rolls you now you are stunned then a TB comes in and uses Deep freeze. Then the UB comes in with Foul Grasp.  The whole time your demigod can't use a skill, escape, teleport, warp, This process continues till you are dead and their is no way to defend it once it starts. And it starts at level 5 and gets worse at level 10 and 15.  This is what makes people mad when playing this game we need a direct counter to stunning or it has to be removed.  The first team that executes this has a 3 v 2 advantage and now more then likely have killed all your demigods and has a +4500 gold advantage. Tough to come back from

 

Reply #11 Top

Good post Horse what i am afraid of is the reply to this. "Will in a 3v3 if all play stay together this is not a problem".

That is a good point. However do u want a game where ever player to have a chance must stay in formation?

We the ancients know this and i for one dont do it and pay for it LOL. When the noobs hit 4-14 and are running ever where and get owned how will they react will they be driven to learn or log out never to play again.

Reply #12 Top

For frogboy:

 

Foul grasp from beast when using to close from target or right after a warp just doest work.

Often fix by issuing a move command before using the skill

Result:  Feel like a broken game / verry anoying!!!

I heard of no c++ chance. I truly hope thi sis a joke since this game is still bugged!!!

 

Reply #13 Top

Wag you should make a seperate thread about the foul grasp bug so they can see it easier.

And no c++ changes doesnt mean no bug fixes.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting DalzK, reply 13
Wag you should make a seperate thread about the foul grasp bug so they can see it easier.

And no c++ changes doesnt mean no bug fixes.
End of DalzK's quote

I'd be extremely surprised if the UB issue could be fixed without C++ changes.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Kurgan62, reply 14

And no c++ changes doesnt mean no bug fixes.


I'd be extremely surprised if the UB issue could be fixed without C++ changes.
End of Kurgan62's quote

 

The whole c++ change thing means that there will be no gameplay changes that require new code. Bug fixes can require some coding changes and will be done if needed.

For the rest they will try to change game balance by altering values (costs, cooldown time etc) that are not hardcoded.

C++ code changes has to be tested for new bug's etc. Value changes not.

Reply #16 Top

We are listening and you can look at the game like this:

There will be v1.0.  This is the game that will be in the box but will never get played on-line because we will have the Bonus Pack on day 0.  V1.0 is designed for single player which has been a lot of our focus that beta testers haven't seen.  We like multiplayer but v1.0 is focused on people who don't have Internet connections and just plan to play the game single player.

Bonus Pack will be v1.01. This is the 0 day update.  This version will have balance changes and all kinds of other things in it that are almost exclusively for multiplayer players.  For instance, we plan to put in a new concept: Rebound. That is, some items and abilities that allow players to have magical spells rebound on the person who cast them.  We also plan on having Skirmish mode where players have match-making going on.

Then there's v1.02. I don't know precisely when this will hit but likely in the first 30 days. This will make tweaks to the game based on initial player feedback and fix any bugs that might have gotten missed. The usual stuff.

Then there's v1.1. This will likely be the first significant update that will have some new items, support a new Demigod (we plan - operative word is plan as opposed to "promise" which some people around here like to throw around that word..) or two, new items, new abilities, etc.  This would likely be out this Spring.

Beyond that, it really depends on sales.  Mike Marr and GPG and I have lots of ideas for cool stuff based on how well the game does.  Clan based tournaments, custom mod games (i.e. official mods of the game counted as sub-games), lots of new items, Demigod epics (single player thing), Official game tournaments with cash prizes, Active towers, changes to generals/assassins dynamics, new types of minions, etc.  We have the ideas. We just have to wait and see what the demand for Demigod is first. 

Right now, we feel pretty confident about Demigod.  We've seen people play enough that they really like it. It plays pretty well on mediocre hardware so it wshould play on a lot more systems than most strategy games currently out. 

All that said, the issues raised in this thread are valid and need to be addressed as much as possible.  As I have described to my friends at GPG "The problem here isn't that expert players beat newbie players, it's that expert players can make life hell for newbie players and expert players vs. expert players would just be mutual hell." 

Where I tend to disagree with some of you is that I don't want to see things nerfed as much as much as I want there to be counters to them.  Rebounding for instance introduced as items and powers. Stun immunity as a power that players can research. But the idea being, have there be counters to powers so that there is more skill.

For example, from a C++ perspective, rebound means detecting X has occurred and having Y happen instead.  Lots of interesting things could be made.  For instance, you could have a derivative of rebound where a player could capture an incoming stun and turn it into an area buff for themselves and nearby allies intead of getting stunned.  If done right, it just means players have to use a little more skill when using this stuff.

If anyone here has ever played Magic the Gathering, you can imagine the thinking process going on at Stardock and GPG with regards to powers.

 

Reply #17 Top

"The problem here isn't that expert players beat newbie players, it's that expert players can make life hell for newbie players and expert players vs. expert players would just be mutual hell."
End of quote

That pretty much sums it up.  Hasn't it been like that since Beta 1, though?  

We aren't really seeing progression on some of these fundamental balance issues that we've all known about for months and it feels too late to overhaul the way it might need...For example, bringing TB back in so late in developement with Deep Freeze pretty much untouched brings us full circle to the stunlocking we all hated way back when.  Why take a big step back?

As an aside, I think there is confusion (at least from me) as to what changes the devs can actually make before release..Should we keep generating crazy ideas or do we need to fit this in the context of small number tweaks?  For example - a few posts have been made about minions, abilities, and citadel upgrades incorporating buffs - is it too late to bring stuff like that in for 1.01?

Reply #18 Top

"The problem here isn't that expert players beat newbie players, it's that expert players can make life hell for newbie players and expert players vs. expert players would just be mutual hell."
End of quote
The problem is that everything does a hell lot of damage. It takes no time for 2 demigods to kill a single one, so that one cannot use his scape mechanisms plus the team would not make it to arrive in time for help. So you engage 2 demigods with a single stun, you're dead, period.

 

Minions die in two hits early, mid and lategame and turrets/fortresses do too. I know it's supposed to be a game to be finished in 15 to 30 minutes, but that screws the whole balance.

Reply #19 Top

As an aside, I think there is confusion (at least from me) as to what changes the devs can actually make before release..Should we keep generating crazy ideas or do we need to fit this in the context of small number tweaks?  For example - a few posts have been made about minions, abilities, and citadel upgrades incorporating buffs - is it too late to bring stuff like that in for 1.01?
End of quote

If Demigod is built the way I expect it to be built, there is a lot that can be changed. The engine should bedata driven, so that all the numbers for demigods, minions, creeps, timers, cooldowns, etc. etc. can be changed without messing with the game engine. What isn't as easy to change are things like art assets, maps, videos, menus (layout, not function), etc.  None of this precludes bugs to be fixed.