[Balance] overall balance i suggest

from Demigod Forums

warp stone: thsi item is nice and usefull,.. too usefull, for its price, you can use it to pull off near flawless combo that break the fun in the endgame and makes thign too easy, ist also can be abusing for porta flag steal

possibles fixes: 

1- decrease the range equaly to the cloak of the night

2- increase the cost to 7k

3- when you buy it, the item diseapear after 5 use, and you need to buy it again to an other 5 charges

i believe warp stone remove alot of skill play to the game at his curent state

class balance:

sedna:

main problem are yeti since 3A

before, 8 yeti with mroe than 3k hp each was too abusive, and now, we have 4 yeti with less than 2k hp, that barely do any damage

my fix: give us the old yeti stats, but only 6 yeti at one time

at the curent status, if the yeti atack a DG, its littrerally no minor to no damage, and they die amazing fast, they are truly worthless, how can they hold the line like this?

unclean beast:

finnaly the UB have been tweaked, but its been tweaked a bit too much, now with venom spit, and the movement spelld passive skill and the movement imparing effects on hit, you just have to right click, and your target have no way to escape, if he try to teleport, you can interupt with the drain stun

its the curent state, to be succesfull are litteraly destroyign any DG, you need venom spit, the movement/ atack speed passive skill, and the movement debuff passive skill, and maybe later the skill that increase the weapon damage by X %

and if you have the warp stone, you even easier

for the Fix, well im not sure, but soemthign have to be done, because any player that understand still will be too strong

there is no escape

Torch bearer:

ice mode:

ice mage is now fun to play, btu coudl use a tweak

in early game, its pretty hard, your skill take alot of mana, and more work than other assasin to do soem minimal damage

but end game ( lvl 10 and more) the shatter damage with the aoe debuff, is too much, ice mage can be use to do flawless combo , especially with the rook, with warp stone, so 1800(2100 at lvl 20) shatter + hammer = kill

ice mage just need some tweakign in the early damage and end game damage

thats all when ice mage get lvl 10 / 15 its starting to be way too strong,. the shatter hurt too much the the debuff/ aoe stuns he can do

fire mode:

i think this is the most boring class to play

reason, to be truly effective, you only need fireball and fire nova

rign of fire need to be changed or replaced by a mroe usefull skill

no one will stand in rign of fire when you do it, and the tiem you loos to do it, you weapon damage will do more damage, and skill point you could invest somewhere else will be at better advantagem yuou may said : yea its effective vs mobs

but we already have fire nova, which di the work flawlessly vs mobs , onyl havign to cast fire ball and fire nova to atack demigod get old fast

posibles fixes:

1 - make rign fo fire follow the TB

2  remove the spell completly and replace it ( soem imolation spell, or some firewall spell, or even soem knock back spell that would do moderate to minor damage)

anyway, soemthing need to be done with ring of fire, any person that played the TB to the max will understand

 

also, the pantheon.. light vs dark, i think due to the limited DG available, factions vs factions is  a bad idea

reason: stuck on 1 side with 4 DG to play, this get boring fast, we need diversity, a choose between 8 is less painfull

i may update this post again, but for now this is what i came up with, i have more testing to do before giving anythign else

and sorry for the bad english

 

note:

plz people ,if you plan to post there read carefully and think alot before doing critics or some addon to the ideas, these
are just objective suggestion from testing

 

 

 

 

4,865 views 25 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

I realy like the limited uses idea for warpstone

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree with the 6 yetis.  I like yetis and I don't like being limited to 4.  I also feel that they are very weak now, almost too weak.

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Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Totally agree on the shatter depertment, its just way to much and u can do like 1800 damage from just shatter at level 15.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree with basically everything on this post. Balancing is key to this version of the beta so I strongly encourage everyone to take a look at these fixes.

Another balance that i think should be addressed is the Wyrmskin gloves. They have recieved a damage nerf (from the 30s to 15), but still retained their original price and the 25% movement speed and attack speed chance (which is 20). The biggest factor to the reason why Wyrmskin needed a nerf was because of the attack and movement speed reduction, the damage was the least of the problems. Possible fixes I suggest:

1) Increase cost of the item.

2) Lower the reduction amount from the chance on hit. (25% to 5% or relative to that range. 1500 is way to cheap for such a large reduction)

3) Lower the chance on hit. (20% is fine if the effects are reduced. However, If they are not reduced and cost remains the same, then lower the chance to proc from 20% to something VERY low, like 5%)

4) Compromise with what's Above. (You can mix these up, like increase cost to 2500, reduce the effects of the proc [chance on hit] to 10%, and lower the chance on hit to 15%)

Things dont have to be absolutely perfect, but they need to be logical enough for players to see the reason why they are made that way and balanced enough not to cause large discontent. This applies to Ultimeh's post above, my reply as well as others, and patches for the near future.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top


warp stone: thsi item is nice and usefull,.. too usefull, for its price, you can use it to pull off near flawless combo that break the fun in the endgame and makes thign too easy, ist also can be abusing for porta flag steal

possibles fixes: 

1- decrease the range equaly to the cloak of the night

2- increase the cost to 7k

3- when you buy it, the item diseapear after 5 use, and you need to buy it again to an other 5 charges

i believe warp stone remove alot of skill play to the game at his curent state

class balance:

sedna:

main problem are yeti since 3A

before, 8 yeti with mroe than 3k hp each was too abusive, and now, we have 4 yeti with less than 2k hp, that barely do any damage

my fix: give us the old yeti stats, but only 6 yeti at one time

at the curent status, if the yeti atack a DG, its littrerally no minor to no damage, and they die amazing fast, they are truly worthless, how can they hold the line like this?

unclean beast:

finnaly the UB have been tweaked, but its been tweaked a bit too much, now with venom spit, and the movement spelld passive skill and the movement imparing efetc on hit, you just have to right click, and your target have no way to escape, if he try to teleport, you can interupt with the drain stun

its the curent state, to be succesfull are litteraly destroyign any DG, you need venom spit, the movement/ atack speed passive skill, and the movement debuff passive skill, and maybe later the skill that increase the weapon damage by X %

and if you have the warp stone, you even easier

for the Fix, well im not sure, but soemthign have to be done, because any player that understand still will be too strong

there is no escape

Torch bearer:

ice mode:

ice mage is now fun to play, btu coudl use a tweak

in early game, its pretty hard, your skill take alot of mana, and more work than other assasin to do soem minimal damage

but end game ( lvl 10 and more) the shatetr samater with the aoe debuff, is too much, ice mage can be useless to do flawless combo , especially with the rook, with warp stone, so 1800(2100 at lvl 20) shatter + hammer = kill

ice mage just need some tweakign in the early damage and end game damage

thats all when ice mage get lvl 10 / 15 its starting to be way too strong,. the shatter hurt too much the the debuff/ aoe stuns he can do

fire mode:

i think this is the most boring class to play

reason, to be truly effective, you only need fireball and fire nova

rign of fire need to be changed or replaced by a mroe usefull skill

no one will stand in rign of fire when you do it, and the tiem you loos to do it, you weapon damage will do more damage, and skill point you could invest somewhere else will be at better advantagem yuou may said : yea its effective vs mobs

but we already have fire nova, which di the work flawlessly vs mobs , onyl havign to cast fire ball and fire nova to atack demigod get old fast

posibles fixes:

1 - make rign fo fire follow the TB

2  remove the spell completly and replace it ( soem imolation spell, or some firewall spell, or even soem knock back spell that would do moderate to minor damage)

anyway, soemthing need to be done with ring of fire, any person that played the TB to the max will understand

 

also, the pantheon.. light vs dark, i think due to the limited DG available, factions vs factions is  a bad idea

reason: stuck on 1 side with 4 DG to play, this get boring fast, we need diversity, a choose between 8 is less painfull

i may update this post again, but for now this is what i came up with, i have more testing to do before giving anythign else

and sorry for the bad english

 

 

 

 

End of quote

 

Pretty much sums up the problems our gaming group has been having, atleast one of us wrote it all down :P

 

Warpstone ideally to me would be:

 

Range 20

Cost 4600

Re-Use 80-120 seconds

 

IMO, that's probably what I would narrow it down to.

 

To add to Ult's list, Rook has too much HP/Armor. A rough 2k HP lead before items late game does not make sense for a Demigod who has the single most hard-hitting attack in the game. His "slow" speed is always offset by the extremely powerful "Warpstone" so it's a moot point. You may argue that it is the way it is because he's a magical grunting castle, but lore should always take a back seat to balance. All of this combined with his ability to make towers (One of the strongest early game skills in Demigod) makes him extremely powerful.

 

This game has to come around to balancing its Demigods some time, and I think we'd all prefer it if it was before launch.

 

 

Obviously there are more problems than all of this, but these are realistic things to be changed before the game is open to the public.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting HD300, reply 5




quoting post

warp stone: thsi item is nice and usefull,.. too usefull, for its price, you can use it to pull off near flawless combo that break the fun in the endgame and makes thign too easy, ist also can be abusing for porta flag steal

possibles fixes: 

1- decrease the range equaly to the cloak of the night

2- increase the cost to 7k

3- when you buy it, the item diseapear after 5 use, and you need to buy it again to an other 5 charges

i believe warp stone remove alot of skill play to the game at his curent state

class balance:

sedna:

main problem are yeti since 3A

before, 8 yeti with mroe than 3k hp each was too abusive, and now, we have 4 yeti with less than 2k hp, that barely do any damage

my fix: give us the old yeti stats, but only 6 yeti at one time

at the curent status, if the yeti atack a DG, its littrerally no minor to no damage, and they die amazing fast, they are truly worthless, how can they hold the line like this?

unclean beast:

finnaly the UB have been tweaked, but its been tweaked a bit too much, now with venom spit, and the movement spelld passive skill and the movement imparing efetc on hit, you just have to right click, and your target have no way to escape, if he try to teleport, you can interupt with the drain stun

its the curent state, to be succesfull are litteraly destroyign any DG, you need venom spit, the movement/ atack speed passive skill, and the movement debuff passive skill, and maybe later the skill that increase the weapon damage by X %

and if you have the warp stone, you even easier

for the Fix, well im not sure, but soemthign have to be done, because any player that understand still will be too strong

there is no escape

Torch bearer:

ice mode:

ice mage is now fun to play, btu coudl use a tweak

in early game, its pretty hard, your skill take alot of mana, and more work than other assasin to do soem minimal damage

but end game ( lvl 10 and more) the shatetr samater with the aoe debuff, is too much, ice mage can be useless to do flawless combo , especially with the rook, with warp stone, so 1800(2100 at lvl 20) shatter + hammer = kill

ice mage just need some tweakign in the early damage and end game damage

thats all when ice mage get lvl 10 / 15 its starting to be way too strong,. the shatter hurt too much the the debuff/ aoe stuns he can do

fire mode:

i think this is the most boring class to play

reason, to be truly effective, you only need fireball and fire nova

rign of fire need to be changed or replaced by a mroe usefull skill

no one will stand in rign of fire when you do it, and the tiem you loos to do it, you weapon damage will do more damage, and skill point you could invest somewhere else will be at better advantagem yuou may said : yea its effective vs mobs

but we already have fire nova, which di the work flawlessly vs mobs , onyl havign to cast fire ball and fire nova to atack demigod get old fast

posibles fixes:

1 - make rign fo fire follow the TB

2  remove the spell completly and replace it ( soem imolation spell, or some firewall spell, or even soem knock back spell that would do moderate to minor damage)

anyway, soemthing need to be done with ring of fire, any person that played the TB to the max will understand

 

also, the pantheon.. light vs dark, i think due to the limited DG available, factions vs factions is  a bad idea

reason: stuck on 1 side with 4 DG to play, this get boring fast, we need diversity, a choose between 8 is less painfull

i may update this post again, but for now this is what i came up with, i have more testing to do before giving anythign else

and sorry for the bad english

 

 

 

 




 

Pretty much sums up the problems our gaming group has been having, atleast one of us wrote it all down

 

Warpstone ideally to me would be:

 

Range 20

Cost 4600

Re-Use 80-120 seconds

 

IMO, that's probably what I would narrow it down to.

 

To add to Ult's list, Rook has too much HP/Armor. A rough 2k HP lead before items late game does not make sense for a Demigod who has the single most hard-hitting attack in the game. His "slow" speed is always offset by the extremely powerful "Warpstone" so it's a moot point. You may argue that it is the way it is because he's a magical grunting castle, but lore should always take a back seat to balance. All of this combined with his ability to make towers (One of the strongest early game skills in Demigod) makes him extremely powerful.

 

This game has to come around to balancing its Demigods some time, and I think we'd all prefer it if it was before launch.

 

 

Obviously there are more problems than all of this, but these are realistic things to be changed before the game is open to the public.
End of HD300's quote

This is very true, his base stats improve TOO well compared to other demigods. Either improve all the other demigods base stats, or decrease rooks (just decrease rooks).

I also believe that his hammer is fine early game, alright early mid-game, but end of mid-game/late game it hits a bit too hard. The level of improvement to rooks hammer per level gets a bit out of hand when reaching level 10+. I've even tried stacking "squishy" heroes with multiple hp items FROM THE START, to counter rooks devastating end of mid-game hammer, but it's useless. Part of the reason why it may be this way is also because of his boulder. The damage increases along with the hammers, making it devastational end-game for lesser base stat heroes (squishys).

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

In the shatter department I think it would be more interesting if the fire is what shattered (that makes more sense from a physics stand point as well, you freeze, freeze, freeze, then quickly heat)   making the extra damage be the pay-off for switching between fire and ice (that requires a lot of work over just specializing in all fire or all ice)

I personally do not think rooks need to be much decreased.  They are about solid without being that powerful.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Good stuff. Thanks for posting it!

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

ya good stuff. I like most of the ideas. They all make sense

 

Agree with HD300 post about rook too.

Its seem the problem is how much he get HP by level. Make it normal like other demigods. Or just a LITTLE bit higher since he does look massive and resistent.

 

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting HD300, reply 5

To add to Ult's list, Rook has too much HP/Armor. A rough 2k HP lead before items late game does not make sense for a Demigod who has the single most hard-hitting attack in the game. His "slow" speed is always offset by the extremely powerful "Warpstone" so it's a moot point. You may argue that it is the way it is because he's a magical grunting castle, but lore should always take a back seat to balance. All of this combined with his ability to make towers (One of the strongest early game skills in Demigod) makes him extremely powerful.
End of HD300's quote

 

While I agree Rook shouldn't inherently be ungodly more powerful than other Demigods, I do think he should have the opportunity to gain an HP or Armor advantage over the others, "because he's a magical grunting castle".

Tying these benefits into his Castle upgrades (i.e., Making him more like a castle) would make sense, though a 2,000 HP lead is still unsensible from a balance perspecive.  A more subtle increase to his HP and Armor would be sensible, however.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

i may also add to lower a bit the damage over tiem of the venom spit with unclean beast

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Rook with high armour + 6.8k hp is enough imo. You simply cant kill that (or its freaking hard...). Like HD300 said, the warpstone he gets will mean his slow speed isnt so revelant.

I agree warpstone needs nerf...
But 7k AND limited 4 uses AND 20 range. That would simply make it a huge huge waste of money and is too big of a nerf, though one is certainly needed.

I agree with your other points too...UB needs 6.0 base speed imo, he can get high armour + hp + dps + movementspeed too easily. Thats basically all the essentials for a unstoppable DG...and he has stun with life leech + ranged venom spit. I think he needs a small nerf - movement speed, dps, armour reduction? (not all of then, just some suggestions)

Ring of fire is probably the worst spell in the game. I know you guys can only change figures etc. but really, would it be THAT hard to replace with a more interesting move? If not a buff or change is really needed in that skill.

Good points by everyone so far, useful thread :)

 

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

those balance changers are very good and i agree with most of them

the idea of limited use its nice for a 2500 warpstone since its cheap but i would also reduce the range a bit, i think its just too big.

Also UB has too many health at later lvls  without any armors and he should be a somekind of rogue class that does high dps but low health. Also venom split could use a small reduction.

About torchbearer fire i think ring of  fire should be replaced by a weakening spell, like oaks that reduces movement speed and takes more dmg

 

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Lets just hope GPG can at least give this a try.

I know Stardock doesnt have full power over balance changes.

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

OK evryone I have the stats of all assasins at LVL20 without +Hp item so we will  able to check.

ROOK: HP: 5675    Armor: 877

UB: HP:4115   Armor:1083

Regulus : HP: 3415  Armor 839

TB: HP 3500  Armor:810

 

 

There are many thing to take into consideration here. Is the character ranged or not. If Higher hp is it Lower armor etc.

Personally I vote rook at aprox 4200HP or anything less than 5k.

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Wagnard, reply 16
OK evryone I have the stats of all assasins at LVL20 without +Hp item so we will  able to check.

ROOK: HP: 5675    Armor: 877

UB: HP:4115   Armor:1083

Regulus : HP: 3415  Armor 839

TB: HP 3500  Armor:810

 

 

There are many thing to take into consideration here. Is the character ranged or not. If Higher hp is it Lower armor etc.

Personally I vote rook at aprox 4200HP or anything less than 5k.
End of Wagnard's quote

lol ub has highest armor and it is second at hp. nice high-dps/high armor/high hp/stun demigod

thanks for the numbers

Reply #18 from Demigod Forums Top

Strange that rook latest armor level is < UB. I'm fine with a resilient rook, it's kinda his signature aspect. What need to be toned down are speed attack and movement upgrades with levels.

Hammer is not unbalanced per se. The latest level of boulder creates a boring situation since the higher you go, the easier it is to land the powerful slam.

 

Torch : ring of fire could either benefit from these modifications : largly higher damage, since it's a dot. Or instant cast while fire nova would get a little cast time. At the moment, nova is both easier and more effective to use.

 

Warpstone : Issue with it (and a couple other items) is that activable items spaces aren't that scarce : because one heart of life, one WS and any other thing left are usually all that's needed, there is no real "cost" in choosing a warp stone as soon as possible.

 

Sedna's Yetis : The minions futility in most situations is a global problem for all generals, imho. This needs a quite important reworking at the moment. Currently, Generals are constrained to use their active skills above all.

 

 

 

Reply #19 from Demigod Forums Top


[...]
3- when you buy it, the item diseapear after 5 use, and you need to buy it again to an other 5 charges
[...]

End of quote

Just increase the cooldown time for the warpstone.


[...]
in early game, its pretty hard, your skill take alot of mana, and more work than other assasin to do soem minimal damage
[...]

End of quote

Why increasing the dmg in early game? You want be able to handle a rook 1on1 on lvl 4 oder 5 without doing anything then 2 or 3 clicks? Sorry, but this is bs (sry for that :( ). If you´re getting owned too hard in early game with TorchBearer, play him more intelligent -_- A mage isn´t supposed to be strong on lvl 4 or 5. His skills will become tougher with time. All you have to do in early game is playing a little more passive.

I´ve read a couple of those posts until now. If you want to create a game in which every unit plays itself like everything else, your idea here may be welcome.

If you want to have a game, in which a different playstyle is needed for each demigod, then just ignore your idea :)

 

edit: I need a forum tutorial ^.^

Reply #20 from Demigod Forums Top

Sadly its a bit true about the mage in early game.

Check MMO and any other RPG as example. Mage Suck always at first but is becoming stronger in the end.

Maybe he need a little something at the start. But indeed maybe not be able to take a rook 1v1 with no item on lvl 1.

This is just some early MAYBE I say I havent tough about all this thouroughly. Just responding fast :)

 

Reply #21 from Demigod Forums Top

Most of it seems good, the only problem I have is the antifaction part. That's the core essence of this game's story. Take that away and you're left with Sins of a Solar Empire.

Reply #22 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting [AC,
DalzK" reply="13" id="2082560"]

Rook with high armour + 6.8k hp is enough imo. You simply cant kill that (or its freaking hard...). Like HD300 said, the warpstone he gets will mean his slow speed isnt so revelant.

I agree warpstone needs nerf...
But 7k AND limited 4 uses AND 20 range. That would simply make it a huge huge waste of money and is too big of a nerf, though one is certainly needed.

I agree with your other points too...UB needs 6.0 base speed imo, he can get high armour + hp + dps + movementspeed too easily. Thats basically all the essentials for a unstoppable DG...and he has stun with life leech + ranged venom spit. I think he needs a small nerf - movement speed, dps, armour reduction? (not all of then, just some suggestions)

Ring of fire is probably the worst spell in the game. I know you guys can only change figures etc. but really, would it be THAT hard to replace with a more interesting move? If not a buff or change is really needed in that skill.

Good points by everyone so far, useful thread

 

End of [AC's quote

Completely agree with RoF, basically useless. To jumpstart devs with some ideas, how about replacing the skill with a DOT? The DOT skill can do mediocre damage and make the target take extra damage from other fire attacks. A DOT can also be used as a shatter mechanic, if you wanted to create a similar mechanic for the fire skill tree. To me, this seems logical and way more useful that the current Ring of fire but I dont know, just a thought.

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Nokthra, reply 19




quoting post

[...]
3- when you buy it, the item diseapear after 5 use, and you need to buy it again to an other 5 charges
[...]


End of Nokthra's quote


Just increase the cooldown time for the warpstone.

[...]
in early game, its pretty hard, your skill take alot of mana, and more work than other assasin to do soem minimal damage
[...]





Why increasing the dmg in early game? You want be able to handle a rook 1on1 on lvl 4 oder 5 without doing anything then 2 or 3 clicks? Sorry, but this is bs (sry for that ). If you´re getting owned too hard in early game with TorchBearer, play him more intelligent A mage isn´t supposed to be strong on lvl 4 or 5. His skills will become tougher with time. All you have to do in early game is playing a little more passive.

I´ve read a couple of those posts until now. If you want to create a game in which every unit plays itself like everything else, your idea here may be welcome.

If you want to have a game, in which a different playstyle is needed for each demigod, then just ignore your idea

 

edit: I need a forum tutorial ^.^
End of quote

 

play him more intelegently??? sorry but i already do, i can safely say im one of the best TB,and  when  you quote, quote the interesting part, as i also told : " but end game ( lvl 10 and more) the shatte damager with the aoe debuff, is too much, ice mage can be use to do flawless combo , especially with the rook, with warp stone, so 1800(2100 at lvl 20) shatter + hammer = kill"

its seem you need to also play him more if you are happy with the current TB, tb end game is too strong, so this is why the need to to tweak the end game / early game

plz think more

your statement would only make sense if i never would have spoken about nerfing the Tb endgame in ice mode

also, i never said he needed some significant increase, just a little soemthing to help a bit

Reply #24 from Demigod Forums Top

TB is tended to be weak at early game. So i don´t understand why you want to change this. He´s not a 1on1 character on his first levels.

You´re right, I didn´t commented on those late game skills, because I´ve just not played enough games to get a solid opinion about it. But it seems that everyone is complaining on this high hp monster rook, so .. :)

This "warp me in scotty" story has to be changed, that´s true. But my point is, that every demigod should have its own advantages/disadvantages. TB is easy to kill in early if the player isn´t carefully. But TB is deadly in the lategame (as far as I´ve tested this shatter stuff). Maybe TB is too powerfull. But I don´t like the idea to make every Demigod like an arche typ:

Be able to survive anything in early and be able to kill in late, but not too strong please.

Reply #25 from Demigod Forums Top

Nokthra. I talked a bit with ultimeh. He only want a "little" boost in early game if end game get nerfed.