[Meta-Balance] Rankings

from Demigod Forums

So I know Bara has been working hard on the rankings site, but I'm seeing some trends that concern me about the metrics, generally.  Hopefully the devs can take a look at this stuff, or at least let us know what they are thinking about it...

1.  The top 5 overall and in custom game rank play alot more Pantheon games than custom games.  Nine times out of ten it means they are playing against AI.  

2.  Of the top 40 I'm seeing maybe 10-15 that play and win consistently against good human opponents more than they lose.  

3.  Some of the top players against humans are ranked 200 or higher.  The 2nd place team of two from a GR tournament a couple of weeks ago with very good players in it are both ranked higher than 1,000. 

It looks to me like Pantheon Rank is disproportionately affecting Custom Game Rank, which skews every other metric you are using to determine Experience.

Don't be surprised when the ePeens freak because they have 40W/6L but are ranked lower than the guy with 3W/9L who has been grinding Pantheon AI.    

Peace,

Kestrel

demigod
2,176 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but won't Pantheon matches be all-humans come release?  It was my understanding that the AI were just there for testing purposes.

 

If that's not the case, I am concerned by this as well...Pantheon matches can't count towards ranking at all if AI are involved.  In fact, if AI is a part of Pantheon matches it will not be taken seriously by anybody besides casuals / noobs who don't mind playing against AI.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

AI can be ranked as long as the AI can also lose rating.  The way the system works is such that if the AI truely does suck a lot it's rating will go down.  As it's rating goes down it becomes worth less and less to real players when they beat it.  Eventually the AI will get to the point where a high ranked player will only get a fraction of a rating from the AI but they will lose a ton if the AI wins.

Assuming there are actually real players involved as well, the AI matches will basically become fillers for high ranked players and low ranked players will always be able to find a game that is challenging (against the AI).

Of course, ideally the system wouldn't match a low ranked player (the AI) against a high ranked player due to the large difference in rating.

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

So I know Bara has been working hard on the rankings site, but I'm seeing some trends that concern me about the metrics, generally.  Hopefully the devs can take a look at this stuff, or at least let us know what they are thinking about it...

1.  The top 5 overall and in custom game rank play alot more Pantheon games than custom games.  Nine times out of ten it means they are playing against AI.  

2.  Of the top 40 I'm seeing maybe 10-15 that play and win consistently against good human opponents more than they lose.  

3.  Some of the top players against humans are ranked 200 or higher.  The 2nd place team of two from a GR tournament a couple of weeks ago with very good players in it are both ranked higher than 1,000. 

It looks to me like Pantheon Rank is disproportionately affecting Custom Game Rank, which skews every other metric you are using to determine Experience.

Don't be surprised when the ePeens freak because they have 40W/6L but are ranked lower than the guy with 3W/9L who has been grinding Pantheon AI.    

Peace,

Kestrel
End of quote

This will all be reset anyway not sure what your worried about.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

The AI cannot be involved in anything that is to be taken at all seriously in a competitive way.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

the existance of this custom ranked ladder suprised me a lot. Never seen before in any game.

will there a 1v1, 2v2, etc. ladder when the game starts, with human players only and UNCHANGEABLE game options?

or will this only run over the Pantheon? and can everybody start a tourney there or only someone like mods, tourney-directors?

i cant see how a custom ranked ladder will work. more exp-points if tower strengh is high or spawn rate is fast?

 

 

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

This will all be reset anyway not sure what your worried about.
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The concern is not current stats, but the trend they point to - namely that a player can grind Pantheon AI for easy wins which raise the player's experience/rank.  Grinding against bots shouldn't affect ladder rank, or if it does it should work the way Micah describes it above. 

Bara has described experience as follows:

Experience is calculated based on the ELO rating system. It is a combination of how well you play in the game, whether you win or lose, and who you are playing against (and how much experience they have). Whether or not we'll reveal how we calculate the experience is a question that's above me for the moment.
End of quote

Right now the bots seem to be delivering the experience.  Does that change when the player pool is larger?