Which DG is the "Most Overpowered?"

With or without Favor items?

1 v 1 or in a team environment?

 

Well, the only DG I have played that makes me feel guilty...as if I was cheating...was the rook. Without the staff of renewal even.

The thing is, against very good organized opponents...The rook becomes significantly less good. Thats because good opponents interupt properly, etc... Specially in a 3v3, even if the rook stuns one...the other two can interupt easily enough.

You then have good rook players do "fake smash" by doing smash then quickly giving a movement order/etc to cancel the animation. An interupt then misses, and the real smash comes. Works quite often when its a 2v2... Most people can't time their interupts to land at the "end" of the rook smash animation.

The other thing about the rook is, lag is his friend. Timing interrupts gets VERY hard in a laggier game.

Even if the rook never lands a smash...He is still incredibly useful. He hits very very hard, he has insane hp/armor and can thus tank. He can stun. His damage with towers/archers/shoulder-tower/trebuchet PLUS his hitting is insane.

Who wants to charge under a rook's leg to hit the regulus/TB behind him?

 

-Drexion/Ragarth

 

I think that your experience with the newbie Rook is just that Rook is newbie friedly and takes a skilled player to effectively counter.  However, in a battle with all skilled players I don't find Rook to be that overpowered.  In fact, I don't think any single Demigod is overpowered, though I do think there are a handful of Demigod combos that don't have any reasonable counter to them do to overpowered synergy.

Let's take Staff of Renewal out and say all other items or conditions are applicable.

Drexion -

An excellent but unsupported Rook against an organized team with interrupts will go down hard.  I played a game with Wagnard this weekend that showed that, although I think backend freezes did as much to slow him down as anything. 

A bad Rook with good support will last alot longer than he would with any other DG.  A good Rook with good support is very difficult to beat with a different combo, at least on small maps.  Can we say the same for any other DG?    

I think tamping Rook health down some is the best solution.  I like his power and his options of play, but he shouldn't have so much health/time to recover from mistakes..

Edit: Micah - so if we accept that skilled players can counter Rook - should you have to be skilled to counter him?  Should the best tank in the game bar none be as accessible as he is?

 

 

 

To me, Rook, UB, and TB are the toughest.

Rook has massive damage through Hammer and Towers, and stun is extremely useful.

UB is very fast, so is hard to get away from. It's also quite easy to load up health and armor while keeping dps on him, plus he has life drain stun and ranged dot.

TB has relatively easy to pull off shatter combo.

 

Staff of Renewal is crazy for Rook and TB. Warp is incredible for all Demigods, but it really shines for Rook and TB.

 

Rook is overpowered no matter how you look at it, he is also the only one atm that is really overpowered, ever torchbearer is just unballanced.

Rook has massive hp, massive armor so hes hard to kill.  He has hammer smash that does more than another single nuke in the game (although you have to hit with it, but when you have a team who stuns one guy or you bolder toss its not hard).  He has a long aoe stun.  He has passive archer tower which makes approaching him dangerous even if hes not targeting you.  His melee hits are extremely powerful.  Rooks is the jack of all trades and master of all.

I'm not sure how saying "oh yea if you time stuns well then its a good counter", if you time stuns on any other demigod you'll kill them as well, just more effectively because they dont have passive damage and massive defences. 

Anyways thats my 2cents on the matter.  Rooks Overpowered, everyone else is fine, but become overpowered when they team up with a rook.

Whichever Demigod Flurus happens to choose in that game is the one that is overpowered.

I agree completly.  But I think even the Rook needs some love, his Smash + rook roll are so good the other two active abilities aren't worth taking in a lot of cases, sure you use towers + shoulder TOL to expand the range of your defences, but getting either hammer smash or Rook roll makes you infinetly better. Also"early game you are dangerous, alte game you are unstoppable, me using the Rook could just waltz in thier base and SLAUGHTER them one by one, even near the health crystal or if I was outnumbered 3 to 1. Granted this was against the AI, but I'm not that good of a player. That said, lowering his speed is a GREAT change, it makes him feel so much mor Rooky and also balances him early game.

TB has the most options I think(well with qot)? And his fire is pretty potent but mostly overlooked, that said.. Ring of Fire, is just an active passive ability, and tbh I never take it. Ice with shatter is VERY good. 

 

UB, again has so many "active passives", ooze, Bestial wrath, which makes him more of an auto-attacker, which I think is not very interresting. The other actives aren't that cool either.. He is a reall finisher so UB tends to rake the kills. 

 

Regulus: absolutely amazing, but pretty OP in 5 REG teams.  I'm not entirely convinced on his mines: they don't do a lot of damage, and they're not real mines more bombs. His Snipe is fantastic coupled with the tracking device, and a really fun mechanic... for Regulus. 

Frogboy, you should have seen how badly Flurus's team got owned when he played sedna ...So what your saying isn't quite true .

 

-Drexion/Ragarth

That Flurus = Haxxor post was lol. 

I haven't played Rook or Sedna much.  But if I had a good team backing me up I'd be alot more effective as a newbie Rook, guaranteed. 

Or take QoT.  You see a few people who know how to use her and how to play on her team.  And then you have a bunch of people who just get slaughtered when they play as or with Queen against a good team.  It's not even their fault, necessarily, maybe they just don't have a teammate who can tank or harrass, etc..  Point is she is very good when you know how to use her or work with her, but there are no margins of error, no forgiveness.  You have to be good.  

You never have that difficulty with Rook.  What seperates a good Rook from a bad Rook at this point is how many opportunities are wasted.  A good Rook will lose no opportunity to demolish.  A bad Rook will squander his assets - complete bad hammerslams, boulder without a close target, etc..  But a bad Rook isn't punished to nearly the extent that a bad QoT or a bad UB is.  If he knows how to run he will get out because he has a massive cushion of hitpoints compared to any other player.  Even if he doesn't know how to run he can often take one or more opponents with him.

So how do we introduce an element that continues to reward good Rooks but allows bad Rooks to die the way they would if they were a different DG?

id have to say it depends on whos playing what and there skill level,
i tear rooks apart if they arent played well, they may have nice armor and life but u can still tear him down relativly fast, im talking from my own experience TB or VL
also with his boulder roll (stun) it is rather easy to avoid unless up close and personal with him.

saying that, i think the TB shatter is adevistating when u can get it to x3 doin 1300 each or somehting like that (correct me if im wrong )though with the amount of life u can get its actually quite balanced if the other team can stay on par with u. (armor is your friend (can usually get life equal to or greater than the rooks ive fought) 

Regulus's snipe is a pain.. but in his description it does say demigod killer , or something to that extent,

UB all i can say is his excessive poising dmg and uncanny attack speed, and slows with each hit, he tears people down almost to fast,

SO i guess if i have to say anyone itd be one of if not all the demigods i wrote about.

if u notice though theres 2 from forces of light and 2 from forces of dark lol

Regulus.

He needs no skill and you kill most characters with one click.

I mean hes not even very fragile so you could justify his range and dmg....

Snipe is the killer skill, and needs no skill to use as well.. best finisher.

 

And to the Argument Regulus is described as a demigod-killer: This Game is all about killing. Pushing is of little interrest and so its all about killing or supporting the killers. So beeing the best killer means beeing the best character.

Summary:

Assassins overpowered

Generals underpowered

And Demigod I play is underpowered.  It may just be me though. 

To an certain extend: Yes.

Especially Oak is awsome BAD in early game.

Apologetics will not alleviate legitimate balance concerns.

 

Don't worry, I'm terrible too.

Have to agree with that.

Most OP (In Order):
The Rook
Ice TorchBearer
Unclean Beast (to a certain extent)

I can really safely say that the Rook and Ice TB are "overpowered". The thing that no one has really exploited with this Beta is the Rook's towers (at least not exploited as much as they can be). They can really be a huge pain in the *** and very, very OP if someone goes a tower heavy build. On top of that, his HP can get pretty ridiculous. Once he gets a warpstone he can almost 100% guarantee a hammer slam hit on target. Whith Rook you get minimum input and maximum output. Basically, put in a little skill, and you get huge damage.

Ice TB's shatter combo just does too much damage imo. He can 1v1 a lot of Melee Demigods pretty easily once he has reached the stage where he can do his shatter combo effeciently.

Unclean Beast...well thats pretty debatable atm. Dont think we can say for sure if he is overpowered or not.


Saying he kills people with "one click" isnt an argument. In fact, ANY Demigod can kill with just "one click"...lol. Its not hard to make all Demigods sound that easy to use - e.g. "With UB you just click and they will eventually die".

Regulus is definately very fragile. One of the most fragile DG's by far. Of course if you let him get the high end items this isnt so true, but thats the same with every Demigod.

You forget to mention Regulus's need to tatically lay mines and lure enemies on to them - his hit and run vs melee Demigods in a 1v1 (which isnt so easy to pull off as "one click" - his use of snipe (trying to position yourself as far as away as possible so snipe does more damage and making sure if the enemy is on low hp your Snipe isnt on cooldown). So much for your one click theory. He is however a strong Demigod

I like this thread - interesting.

Rook, TB (Ice), Regulus.

 

These are the "big three" and as I have discussed previously, given equal teams, whichever team has more of these Demigods will win.

 

I think the Rook is probably the most problematic currently, but Ice TB is a close second.  These three would be pretty easily dealt with given only a couple key changes:

1) cap snares - Regulus really abuses snare stacking; once you get close to him you simply can't run away at all.

2) stun immunity - stun locking is the main reason why Ice TB + Rook is a ridiculously OP combo currently.

 

The Rook's HP, the abusive nature of multiple snipes (with uber long range) in team games, and the massive damage from the shatter combo are also issues, but not as big issues as snare / stun abuse.

 

In my opinion, Sedna and QoT should be used as the "ideal" mark for Demigod balance.  The "big three" are all way too powerful.  UB is somewhat OP, but mainly because of snares.  Sedna and QoT are pretty much ideal, although like all generals they suffer from having next to useless minions.  Oak is somewhat underpowered, and Erebus is really underpowered, especially compared to the OP assassins.

I don't really see it this way.  The generals are really good at what they do if you use them right.  But you have to know how to use them.  As an example the whole "Oak is bad early" meme makes me lol.  Oak is great.  He's one of the best counters to Rook at any level.  In a 1 v 1 against Rook I'll probably go Oak against all but maybe 5 players.

But when Oak or UB or TB or Regulus makes a mistake then they die unless they are very good.

Rook doesn't die unless he is very bad.  That's all it is for me.  I can shield a good Regulus and he will still die.  I shield a bad Rook and he is still plugging along at half health when all our enemies are so much ground beef...

postscript: there are far larger issues than this in the game right now, but in a month or three when the devs are looking for something to patch they might want to look at Rook's survivability when he has support.

 

For me Oak is actually very good Early game, but once it reaches mid-late game he starts to feel underpowered. He does have some really good abilties, I just think he feels a bit "fragile" for a melee Demigod like himself.

I find that Oak does a feel a bit on the fragile side, but Penitance and the +damage from spirit +passive damage ability makes him hit surprisingly hard.

 

The original post makes it sound like people spreading claims about all of the demigods being overpowered, except for Erebus.  I want to know who is saying that QoT or Sedna is overpowered, or even Oak.  The generals are incredibly weak overall, and I don't think we're going to be able to make a good determination about which Demigods are overpowered until we really figure out how the generals are going to be fixed.  I imagine that fixed generals could change the way people play a lot.

Im happly playing the VL he's quite fun to play IMO and deadly if u ask me, but not OP.