Generals and overall gameplay thoughts

Long read

Ok, so I got to play Demigod and I want to write a bit about it's good/bad points, give some ideas, tell people about the game and speak about Generals.

 

I have been playing DotA for a long time and it took me ~5 games to get the hang of Demigod.

The "learning curve" was pretty easy, but as many people on this forum have already sayd, the game just throws you into an arena without telling you how to play or w/e. I understood the point of the game immediately, because I have had some experience with Dota, and the first things on my mind were "What are all the items? Skills?" and "The creeps have already spawned and I'm still looking on the items/skills. I sure hope I won't fall too back behind in levels."

 

What I don't understand is how the hell will player new to the gender understand the point of the game?

Just telling them: "Play more and you'll get it" isn't the best advise...

 

 Ofcourse, while playing Demigod I compare it to Dota and in overall, I find Demigod EXTREMELY lacking in common gameplay.

The graphics are realy nice, yes, the maps are cool, the AI is ok I guess, everything is looking good on the outside, but in the inside...

 

One of the important features in the game is to see the hp bars of allies/enemies. In warcraft 3 they made programs for that, but eventualy it was implemented with a patch. But in Demigod it's SUPER confusing. By pressing the "~" button you trigger the health bar display between different modes that appear to be: Only allied demigods, only enemy demigods, only demigods, only allied units, only enemy units, only units, ally demigods and units, enemy demigods and units, all units.

So UNBELIEVABLY  confusing. I suggest either bring up a menu telling what mode you want to use (by pressing ~) or make it a thing in the gameplay options where you check the units you want to display the healthbars.

It took me around 20 presses of the "~" button to set the health bars on everyone. And then it had it's own bugs. Like some enemy demigods for some reason didn't show the health bars. Ok, but it should always show the health bar when you point on the demigod, right? WRONG! Basicaly there was no hp bar above the enemy demigod and I had to look right (instead of the battlefield) to see the target's hit points.

 

I found a couple of more little bugs like some skills not working on a running Demigod or the Demigod sometimes changing targets (it was mentioned before on the forums, guess it was just ignored...).

 

I REALY liked the feature that you can attack while running. That was a nice thing :)

Also the  SOUND in the game is just pure AWESOME. The background music realy brings the godly feeling into the game, but the game lacks some sounds. Like most of the time I only hear how demigods attack, but not normal units. That kind of sux :( Like you don't hear the sound of a REAL battle. Just swings and hits once every second. Good've been better.

I have a strong PC, so I don't know if it's fair to compare, but I had absolutely no lags on the highest settings. < good thing ^^

The game is pretty balanced and the items are ok.

 

The minimap in the game is pretty strange and the gameplay is made in a way where you have practicaly no map awareness, because it's not as important as in dota. Summed up with what I will say below, the gameplay becomes kind of like this:
Play, play, play, graphics are nice, the game is pretty interesting, omg what special effects, play, play, play, I wonder what I'm doing right now? What are my allies doing? What's happening on the map in overall? What skills are better/worse? Nah... Why should I care about that? I better play, play, play, play, play, I think I should play more in the dirrection of their citadel, no? Play, play, play, play WTF I WON????

 

I think that everyone has heard about the assasin demigods and it has been sayd many times that generals are play in a more boring/weaker style.

Well time to clear things up right here. The sad thing is - the game DOES NOT ALLOW you to play as a general NORMALY. The gameplay in this part is so INCREDIBLY LACKING I just...

Let's talk about it.  I was very surprised (in a bad way) how little of detail developers have put in the general gameplay. Let's look at the assasins: All the skills say what they do, how much damage they deal, you have ALL the info about your demigod, you must only control your demigod, you see how items benefit you, it's pretty easy.

Now add minions to that and it'll suck! Oh yeah...

 

Let's look at the minions.  Minotaur - the melee minion.

First level minotaur: Summons 2 minotaurs. Can have a maximum of 2 minotaurs.

Ok?... Let's look at level 2.

Second level minotaur: Summons 2 minotaurs. Can have a maximum of 2 minotaurs. Stronger than first level minotaurs.

Ummm... what?

Fourth level minotaur (last level): Summons 2 minotaurs. Can have a maximum of 2 minotaurs. Stronger than third level minotaurs.

 

Wait... Did I miss something? What damage they have? What hit points have they got? What about armor? Speed? Hp regen?

Some items give things like +300 minion hp, + 5 minion damage.

But... What hit points do minions have and what damage do they have? Is 5 damage much?

I summon the minions. I find they have 1210 hp. Ok... What about damage? Anything else? Nope...

And that's how it is. Absolutely NO INFO about anything. The gameplay tells you: "Hey, chill man, just play. You don't need to know their damage. They deal some damage right? That's all you need to know."

 

People were asking what are lvl 1,2,3 idols (the thingies that summon minions) for if you can buy 4th level right away? Well I found a couple of uses for the all the minions in general, like you can get lower level minions to let them die quickly and get your own minions with skills of your General Demigod. You can get lower level minions combined with a +minion damage item to get more "damage per gold" out of your minions and items.

But the game DOES NOT ALLOW you do see how much damage per gold you will realy get. Is it SO hard to give a bit more info about the minions?

 

That aside the way you control your army is just awful.

Compared to DotA, which runs on the Warcraft 3 engine, you can easily select your units, send them where ever you want to, see their stats, create groups etc.

 

In Demigod you clearly can't do as much. There are buttons to select "all minions", "all minions + demigod", or simply demigod. What the "Select all minions and organise them" button does will remain a mistery to me, as the button doesn't work. I press it and all minions do NOT get selected. Nothing happens to be clear.

Also, the minion Idol says "Right-click to drop item" and that doesn't work as well. I think it's a bug, it shouldn't say that.

 

What I would REALY love in Demigod is to have the minion count displayed.

Right now I just don't realy see which units I have got and what units are dead. I just try to summon everything I can and it either:

a) summons the minions

b) tells me that I already have max ammount of minions (well SORRY FOR ME NOT KNOWING THAT).

 

 

 

A display on the left would be realy helpful, like showing the icons of every type of minions I have got and their ammount. Their ammount in green if their count is not maxed, and in red if maxed. + I should be able to ctrl/shift + click them to remove some minions from my selection or select a certain type of minions. That would help a ton.

 

And lastly about the lack of detail:

The well know Oak has the ability that increases his damage based on the number of spirits he has (minions he can summon with a death ward). The death ward skill says the maximum unit limit, but that's about it. The tooltip of the skill that increases damage in your status just says something like: "You have some spirits, you have your damage increased". So do I have to count my minions on the battlefield to know their count :( ?

 

Thank you for reading...

15,054 views 26 replies
Reply #1 Top

The game has not been freaking released yet XD

 

Edit: Or well, unless you were in beta or bought from gamesomething

Reply #2 Top

Lol.

Sounds like the only game you want is DotA v2.0.

If you want stats for so many things you can look them up in lua files easily btw ;)

Reply #3 Top

A lot of irrelevant stats aren't displayed to reduce various clutter. Damage below a certain amount isn't shown as floaty numbers (like Rook's shoulder archer tower). Creep damages aren't shown since you don't control them anyway. It would've been nice to see the damage of the Generals' unique minions, though (on a tooltip!).

Reply #4 Top

I actually agree with him as it being a longer term goal. I'm a numbers guy, so the more numbers, the better.

 

Edit: On the tooltip, to be clear. I don't think it needs to be displayed as a floating damage value in combat itself.

Reply #6 Top

Yeah agreed that kind of information is neccesary if you want to develop good strategies and its best if you have it during the game with the click of your mouse. i find it weird that nobody reported that during beta.

Reply #7 Top

Sounds like you don't like the game... Which is fine.

Although you shouldn't be comparing it to DotA as we can tell you must be a fan... It's a different game, not DotA:2.

All in all though, at least your post was detailed and well layed out... But again, you're comparing it to a different game.

Sorta like all MMORPGs get compared to WoW... Because people are familiar with WOW, they expect other games to be similar or basically a revamped version, with all the features they like from WOW with none of the features they dislike.

It's not really fair to either game...

 

Edit... Agreed with your point about a tooltip for # of minions out, it is frustrating to not know how many are alive in a cluster of guys, especially for me I tend to zoom out pretty far.

Reply #8 Top

Wow.  I am still going to buy DG, but that puts a dent in my hopes of a kick ass game.  I know it'll get better though since the support for Sins of a Solar Empire is outstanding.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting LittleOz, reply 8
Wow.  I am still going to buy DG, but that puts a dent in my hopes of a kick ass game.  I know it'll get better though since the support for Sins of a Solar Empire is outstanding.
End of LittleOz's quote

 

Don't let it put a dent in... I personally never played DotA, I think this game is extremely enjoyable. And for me it will get better since more people will be online today or tomorrow to play, been only getting a few games with human players and alot of Ai, since that GS fiasco.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting LittleOz, reply 8
Wow.  I am still going to buy DG, but that puts a dent in my hopes of a kick ass game.  I know it'll get better though since the support for Sins of a Solar Empire is outstanding.
End of LittleOz's quote

 

Its not that is not a kick ass game, its only that it needs to display more information, its true what JKnuckle88 said, but come on, ive never played DoTA and i still think that showing damage armor health of minions in an easy quick way is essential, its like

Reply #11 Top

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I WANT that info, badly.  That's the only way I can dream up new strats when I'm not playing.  Don't tell me you've never though "well, next game if i buy that item and specialize in minotaurs, then my DG will be a melee brute".    Yes, I do want that info and I strongly believe SD should provide it.  Otherwise, what's the point of generals if we can't know the differences in upgrading minions?

 

I was just bummed that it wasn't provided in the first place.

 

Side note, if you buy items for your DG and he dies, are the items stil attached?

Reply #12 Top

Side note, if you buy items for your DG and he dies, are the items stil attached?
End of quote

Yes - the only way to lose items is to either sell them back to the store or right-click on them to drop to the ground.  You will not lose items by dying. 

Incidentally as a workaround to under-the-hood numbers - all damage to your DG floats, so if you playtest against minions of various levels you will see what their damage range is.  It's clumsy, but if you really want the info it can be done - then you should post it in these forums for the rest of us ^^

Reply #13 Top

 

Quoting Ke5trel, reply 12


Incidentally as a workaround to under-the-hood numbers - all damage to your DG floats, so if you playtest against minions of various levels you will see what their damage range is.  It's clumsy, but if you really want the info it can be done - then you should post it in these forums for the rest of us ^^
End of Ke5trel's quote

 

Hmmm, might have to look into that when i pick up the game tomorrow.

Reply #14 Top

Hmm, I don't know if I agree with this post or not. While you are spot on about some of the information regarding minions and their information, I have no problem seeing enemy Demigods health. Their health is displayed when i'm on them wailing away. The map awareness is a valid point, but I think its more about not having audio for when a flag is being captured. If there is, I haven't heard it because i'm usually caught up in battle.

 

I think the game is solid, and I think comparing to Dota is a flawed process. It took inspiration from Dota, but it doesn't play like it, nor was it meant too imho. As someone who played Dota, i'm glad Demigod came out, and have no desire to return to Dota.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting LordCarlos, reply 10

Quoting LittleOz, reply 8Wow.  I am still going to buy DG, but that puts a dent in my hopes of a kick ass game.  I know it'll get better though since the support for Sins of a Solar Empire is outstanding.
 

Its not that is not a kick ass game, its only that it needs to display more information, its true what JKnuckle88 said, but come on, ive never played DoTA and i still think that showing damage armor health of minions in an easy quick way is essential, its like Somaz said how are we going to know if 300 life and 5 damage is good if we dont know the base damage of the minions.
End of LordCarlos's quote

 

Oh I wasn't saying his points were wrong... Features that he stated would be nice, I was just saying it's hard to compare different games even if the genre is similar, especially if you come from one game to another.


Err, I don't really mean compare, I mean more like hard to totally rate a game if you're used to something... Like I used the WoW example, you compare the next game to it because you're used to it and expect those features to be the norm, and yo may get dissapointed because they aren't the same, but if you just take some time you may find that you like the the new game more because of things that are different.

 

Edit... And also the game technically isn't even released yet, I'm pretty confident they will add a ton of stuff based on feedback, so I think we all are jumping the gun a tad. Oh and let me add, the game seems very polished, there are very few bugs, from what I can tell, which is nice, considering last few games i got right at release were bug riddled.

 

Reply #16 Top

Too much info ingame can completely ruin the interface. I think Stardock learned from GalCiv2 in this regard as its entirely possible to miss really important details under all the (extremely useful and necessary) data on screen. As this problem has somewhat annoyed me when playing GalCiv2 I am very pleased to see this wont be a problem in Demigod. 

To give everyone an idea of what I'm talking about I made a mock up of what this would like in Demigod.

Here

Hopefully everybody can just appreciate the joke and not get hung up on it...

I do agree that the numbers are vital to know - but are they vital to know all the time? If you know what the base stats of a minotaur is you don't need to be constantly reminded of it every time you mouse over one. You do need to know what kind of an adjustment to the base stats would be made if you put on a piece of equipment and that data is easily viewable in game.

I believe the devs have anticipated that within a few weeks there will be sites up with all the relevant data on the creeps. I also believe that the reason why there is nothing printed in the manual or up online already is that until very recently the game was in beta and this kind of data was changing rapidly every day.

Even after release patches will come out that change and render any printed data useless. Have some patience and I'm sure somebody will have the stats collected. I think slanging the game over this is a bad idea - not just because it says bad things about the fantastic streamlining of the UI - but its also short sighted in terms of the game as a whole. The game has *just* been released at is at a critical period where potential players who have only just heard of it will be looking through forums to see if its worth buying.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting LordCarlos, reply 6
Yeah agreed that kind of information is neccesary if you want to develop good strategies and its best if you have it during the game with the click of your mouse. i find it weird that nobody reported that during beta.
End of LordCarlos's quote

 

It was reported.  e.g:

 

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/334184

 

Quoting me,

When playing as a General, it's not clear what the different units you can purchase *do*.  I think that minotaurs are melee attackers, archers are ranged attackers, and monks / priests are healers, but their tooltips just tell me that higher-level minions are more powerful than lower-level ones.  Also, is it deliberate that the exact amount of damage / healing done by each unit isn't listed?  It seems odd that it's left out when (most of) my skills show exact numbers.  This information could also be on the tooltips for the summon buttons, and perhaps also the select buttons.

End of me's quote

 

So were some of the other specific things he pointed out (I especially noticed that apparently the problem with losing targets/orders *still* hasn't been fixed :( ) .  I'm not sure why the developers didn't fix them during beta, but my impression from the outside was that somewhere around February they realized that the networking was in serious trouble and dropped everything else to try to get it working for the release, along with some serious balance problems that got rolled into the day-0 patch.  Hopefully some of these loose ends will be tied up in future patches.

Reply #18 Top

I never played Dota, but i thought the game was pretty easy to get into, I don't think there was any confusion. just put the game on easy and take your time when you try out a new general. The Health bars i didn't know about that but i think it would just get in the way i just mouse over my target to see their health. I think generals are fun i like playing as Oak. You get more units then the ones you get from idols. If you spec for it, i usually go for the spirits torwards the end i will have a lot of units. I don't select them tho i just let them follow me and let them attack who they want unless i want to take down a demi god.

Reply #19 Top

Somaz has some fair points:

So UNBELIEVABLY confusing. I suggest either bring up a menu telling what mode you want to use (by pressing ~) or make it a thing in the gameplay options where you check the units you want to display the healthbars.
End of quote

I'd like something a bit more user-friendly here too..

the gameplay is made in a way where you have practicaly no map awareness, because it's not as important as in dota.
End of quote

Map awareness isn't as key as in DoTA, but you should give this one some time before claiming that the gameplay is unsophisticated.  If you have good map and flag control in Demigod you will be stratzooming constantly all the time.  It's just a different system.  The minimap is functional only in terms of allied pings and for when you are too busy with micro to zoom.  

But the game DOES NOT ALLOW you do see how much damage per gold you will realy get. Is it SO hard to give a bit more info about the minions?
End of quote

I have no issue with under-the-hood numbers but we should have the option to make them UI/tooltip bound.

That aside the way you control your army is just awful.

Compared to DotA, which runs on the Warcraft 3 engine, you can easily select your units, send them where ever you want to, see their stats, create groups etc.

In Demigod you clearly can't do as much. There are buttons to select "all minions", "all minions + demigod", or simply demigod. What the "Select all minions and organise them" button does will remain a mistery to me, as the button doesn't work. I press it and all minions do NOT get selected. Nothing happens to be clear.

Also, the minion Idol says "Right-click to drop item" and that doesn't work as well. I think it's a bug, it shouldn't say that.

What I would REALY love in Demigod is to have the minion count displayed.

Right now I just don't realy see which units I have got and what units are dead. I just try to summon everything I can and it either:

a. summons the minions

b. tells me that I already have max ammount of minions (well SORRY FOR ME NOT KNOWING THAT).
End of quote

Pretty much all valid.  Easily-controlled and accessible minions would be great.  The "drop idol" function is probably left over from a late bug catch and is just a tooltip error.  (Assassins could pick up the idols, apparently)

I use "m" to select all minions and it works every time.  Minion AI is pretty good in some ways too, so if you buy priests and select them and then click on an ally they will follow him around and heal him. 

In terms of the post tone, Somaz, I would give the game a bit more time to mature and also try playing some organized team games.  It gets much more complex the better the players are.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Silphius, reply 16

To give everyone an idea of what I'm talking about I made a mock up of what this would like in Demigod.

Here

Hopefully everybody can just appreciate the joke and not get hung up on it...
End of Silphius's quote

 

Lol bravo on the mockup. I laughed.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Silphius, reply 16


To give everyone an idea of what I'm talking about I made a mock up of what this would like in Demigod.

Here

Hopefully everybody can just appreciate the joke and not get hung up on it...
End of Silphius's quote

:rofl:

That, sir, was gold. Thanks.

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Raike, reply 20



Lol bravo on the mockup. I laughed.
End of Raike's quote

 

Almost spilled my orange juice..now I -have- to make a mod to add all of those "features".

Reply #23 Top

Ya man the mockup was quite funny.  You even listed the Moods of the mobs on screen and what they are listening too!  And the CNN report at the bottom is Hillarious.  "Regulus Snipe "Total BS" according to Darkness experts!"

 

But you know i still gotta complain that there are no actual Numbers! ha more mouseover Info would be nice.  And Im sure itll come.  Look how much the WOW interface changed over the years and how every ability got worked out and Wowwiki has pretty much everything you could ever imagine about WOW.  So if Demigod catches on.  It will be something for the Theory Craft people to go nuts with.

Reply #24 Top

Then again, wow has a monthly subscription. There is nothing to keep the devs developing this game.

Reply #25 Top

Stardock has a fantastic reputation for continuing to develop titles for years. The incentive is customer loyalty and it's a big reason why I'm here.

Edit: And I'm glad people enjoyed the joke ;P