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Spooky__
Join Date 10/2008
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Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator

April 19, 2009 12:42:57 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well it turns out, that on a different internet location of mine, I have a strange problem too. Everytime I want to connect or host a game (doesn't matter if Skirmish, Pantheon or Custom), I get the message

"Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator. Please try again later."

The only thing I could find about this problem is this thread from the beta: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/336807

  • I can ping cvp1.stardock.com just fine
  • I forwarded port 6000 UDP (I'm pretty sure I don't have to, since it's just used for outbound connection)
  • I forwarded port 6073 UDP (default port for hosting games I believe?)
  • I forwarded ports 6200 - 6250 UDP (the ones I set with ImpulseReactorOptions.exe)
  • UPnP is disabled
  • I use no firewall at all (not on the router and not on the PC)
  • According to tcpview and other port enumerators, no connection attempt on port 6000 UDP is ever made.

Why is this happening?

 

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Spooky__
Zolimox
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #1 April 19, 2009 6:22:13 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Dare i say ISP throttling of p2p connections? Can you start up (a legit) torrent for something like a linux ISO?

Can you just forgoe the router and plug it directly into the cable modem and see if that makes a difference? Old routers could have issues (or new ones with crappy firmware)?

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Spooky__
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Reply #2 April 19, 2009 6:34:04 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

My ISP is definitely not throttling p2p connections. Even if it were, this would only affect the running game and not the NAT facilitator connection and it wouldn't even be noticable there, since it doesn't require much bandwidth that would have to be throttled.

My Network Setup is a Router behind a Router... the first Router has the integrated DSL Modem and forwards all ports to the second Router (hence the second Router is in the DMZ of the first Router). As already said, all ports (that we know of) are forwarded on the second router. I also tried to put my PC into the DMZ of the second router, with no luck.

I'll try putting my PC into the DMZ of the first router, this would be the most direct connection I can have.

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Spooky__
Zolimox
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Reply #3 April 19, 2009 6:46:28 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

It would affect the NAT facilitator because you couldnt connect to anyone since in MY experience, i cant even get connections up with my old ISP (who was anal P2P). I'm just trying to eliminate any variables. The best thing i can say is try and get as close to the modem as you can and see what happens. If you can say no firewall, computer connected to modem that makes it most likely the ISP (or Modem).

I really dont like this games MP interface. Starcraft/C&C/Halo/Whatever all solved this problem, dont know why they got all P2P cutesy with this game. That being said, i CAN connect, but its a royal pain (requires multiple tries in pantheon for me to establish P2P with everyone). I REALLY dont understand why they didnt sort this out in BETA.

Comcast direct connect to modem == me.

Good luck

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Spooky__
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Reply #4 April 19, 2009 6:46:49 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Just tried it, didn't change anything. I was directly connected to the Router/Modem (in the DMZ of it) and still got the same error message.

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Spooky__
Zolimox
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Reply #5 April 19, 2009 6:50:36 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I'm going to go out on a limb.
Try disabling ALL virus/antimalware programs?

Are you in EU or through a university/shared network?

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Spooky__
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Reply #6 April 19, 2009 6:50:40 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Zolimox,
reply 3
It would affect the NAT facilitator because you couldnt connect to anyone since in MY experience, i cant even get connections up with my old ISP (who was anal P2P). I'm just trying to eliminate any variables. The best thing i can say is try and get as close to the modem as you can and see what happens. If you can say no firewall, computer connected to modem that makes it most likely the ISP (or Modem).

I really dont like this games MP interface. Starcraft/C&C/Halo/Whatever all solved this problem, dont know why they got all P2P cutesy with this game. That being said, i CAN connect, but its a royal pain (requires multiple tries in pantheon for me to establish P2P with everyone). I REALLY dont understand why they didnt sort this out in BETA.

Comcast direct connect to modem == me.

Good luck
Well, I still do not understand how the whole system works. I though the "NAT facilitator" was just a simple server which on request sends me the ip and port info of the other players in the game (and maybe does some other stuff with the other players to avoid symmetric NAT issues). This would be a single outbound request, nothing special.

But I guess it's not like I thought at all .

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Spooky__
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Reply #7 April 19, 2009 6:52:36 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I am lagging a bit behind in quoting

Quoting Zolimox,
reply 5
I'm going to go out on a limb.
Try disabling ALL virus/antimalware programs?

Are you in EU or through a university/shared network?
It definitely has something to do with my network and not with the local software. I was able to play with my laptop at home (different router and ISP) without any problems. But in my current location I can't play with my laptop either.

I am in the EU, yes (Austria) and I am not in a shared network.

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Spooky__
Zolimox
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #8 April 19, 2009 6:55:33 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Dont qoute me but Frogboy said something about proxy servers for EU players. EU players have been having particular problems that arent native to US.

Proxy means you connect to proxy, proxy connects you to game.

Honestly, i'd probably just wait and see what happens this week. Stardock (usually) really cares about their games. I'm really disappointed in the quality of this release, but im HOPING they are doing everything in their power to make it right. I'm willing to wait a few weeks and see what happens.

Sorry dude, when i can actually connect, the game rocks

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Spooky__
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Reply #9 April 19, 2009 7:03:50 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Ah, yes, the "EU issue". I find this particular quote of frogboy very weird:

Your ISP is sending your messages with different IP addresses. This is common in Europe where people have DSL lines that have multiple IP and the router picks and chooses which IP to send things.
I have never heard from this. Yes, with DSL lines you don't have a fixed IP. But your IP will stay the same during the same session, until you reconnect. I never saw anything like it. Let alone the router itself pick from different IP adresses.

Business lines can have multipe, public IP addresses. But the clients behind those addresses aren't randomly changed or something. Also if a router would really change IPs like that, no game or many other applications simply wouldn't work.

 

Anyway, I just wished GPG/Stardock would be more open about how this whole connection thing works. Supreme Commander / Forged Alliance was plain and simple. Forward a port and you're done (well and also be aware of Symmetric NAT problems ). But now it just seems like a mess.

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Spooky__
Hilving
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #10 April 20, 2009 6:23:07 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Like I've said many times, I get this problem too. I am in Europe. Hope it gets fixed this week!

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Spooky__
Raybi3Z
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #11 April 20, 2009 9:27:15 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

this is stupid,Im seriously annoyed now with this game im getting the same things,ive done what i can with ports to my ability(not very good tutorials about ports cos every router different ofc)You should just be able to buy the game and bloody play it,not turn off firewalls and mess with your router setting,this is not the first time this has happened with a game to do with GPG,Supreme commander had this same problem and that still has not been resolved after 3 years,i hope to god they will be doing something with a new patch and soon,or ill just bring this game back,i only bought it 3 hours ago n spend that 3 hours messing with bloody ports

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Spooky__
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Reply #12 April 20, 2009 9:33:41 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well, to be fair...

Quoting Raybi3Z,
reply 11
You should just be able to buy the game and bloody play it,not turn off firewalls and mess with your router setting
Forwarding a port for a game or any other application (like a bittorrent application for example, which many people use nowadays too) is nothing special, especially nowadays where everybody has a router and not just a direct connection to the internet. The problem discussed in this thread goes beyond that.

Quoting Raybi3Z,
reply 11
this is not the first time this has happened with a game to do with GPG,Supreme commander had this same problem and that still has not been resolved after 3 years
In SupCom/FA, you just have to forward one port for UDP and nothing else. As already said, this is nothing special and not difficult at all. The problem you are referring to is the symmetric NAT problem, where 2 people behind a router that only supports symmetric NAT can't connect to each other, since both of them would have to make a connection to each other first.

In Demigod the network setup process is more complicated and I can only assume they wanted to solve the symmetric NAT issue this way.

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Spooky__
neur0transmitter
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Reply #13 April 20, 2009 10:03:49 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well, judging from some of the posts, I think it is safe to assume that it is not an EU specific problem as much as it is a DSL problem.
Yes, most DSL users have dynamic IPs, but, as Spooky mentioned, it doesn't change unless you restart your router. That public IP address is simply routed on the internet. Also there are some ISPs that don't give you a public address, but NAT you so they don't have to pay for so many public IP addresses, but this is rare, and only present on some ISPs in eastern Europe AFAIK, but certainly not in Austria or in my case. As someone who works with networks, I'm very interested in learning what the problem is with DSL. Does it have something to do with the nature of PPPoE or NAT or what?
Anyway, I hope that at least it gets fixed without proxies adding too much lag since us people from eastern Europe are already starting with a latency disadvantage.

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Spooky__
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #14 April 20, 2009 10:05:57 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I have never heard from this.

Bonded DSL is somewhat common in places where DSL is the primary type of broadband. It basically allows the ISP to offer double the maximum line speed.

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Spooky__
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Reply #15 April 20, 2009 10:45:10 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Well yes and no, this is not a common thing that ISPs offer to normal consumers, at least not around here (Germany and Austria). I certainly do not have bonded DSL. The article even suggets, that it is sometimes used in the UK.

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Spooky__
Psilocybes
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #16 April 20, 2009 6:42:05 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

any fix for this?

Ive only been able to play 3 online games since launch...

Is this GPG/SD issue or is there something i can do on my end?

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nicetrydre
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #17 April 20, 2009 7:02:57 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

April 19 i got this game played it and after the tournament tried to go online. I get the cannot establish NAT/ NAT dissconnected/ connecting to game ERRORS. Im running Vista x64 but I can connect to WC3 using the TCP/IP port 6112 so opening ports 6100-6200 for UDP is very very simple specially to disable ALL firewalls and any other options that block traffic bassically my machine is very very open to port attacks now but still cant connect to ANYONE. I live in Southern California and running a 10mbps cable internet cant host nor join. But in others games like WC3 if this works like a P2P how come torrent files can be transmitted easily while this game cant do that? This game is very much alike with Warcraft 3: DOTA thats why i play WC3 and got this game for ONLINE play.

Again: Router options: Firewall off/SPI off/uPnP off/ Port Forwared for UPD 6100 - 6200 to my PC's IP/ PC's antivirus/firewall are off. Impules FULLY updated the game. I always ran Demigod as Administrative. WHAT ELSE?

Network MAP: ISP > Cable Modem > Gigabit Router > PC

Machine: XPS730i H2C QX9650 OC @ 3.8ghz 8GB 1600mhz RAM 2x GTX280 1gb DDR3 @ SLI mode - Runs every game in the market like hot knife through a butter

Router: D-Link® DIR-825 Xtreme N™ Dual Band Gigabit Router - So no upgrade to latest firmware as its the LATEST

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Reply #18 April 21, 2009 2:33:48 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

@nicetrydre: do you get the "Cannot not connect to a NAT facilitator. Please try again later." message? This thread is about that error.

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nicetrydre
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Reply #19 April 21, 2009 3:11:51 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Spooky,
reply 18
@nicetrydre: do you get the "Cannot not connect to a NAT facilitator. Please try again later." message? This thread is about that error.

Yes I do get that error and same erros all of you are encountering.

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Reply #20 April 21, 2009 1:04:48 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Btw. during my attempts of connecting to a game or hosting a game, tcpview does not show any connection attempt on port 6000 UDP to cvp1.stardock.com or cvp2.stardock.com. How can that be?

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Spooky__
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Reply #21 April 23, 2009 4:43:41 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Patch didn't resolve the problem. The only difference is that the connection info box now says "Waiting for connection data.". After a while I get the "Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator." error. tcpview still shows no connection attempt on port 6000 UDP.

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lostbizzo
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Reply #22 April 23, 2009 11:28:07 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Spooky,
reply 21
Patch didn't resolve the problem. The only difference is that the connection info box now says "Waiting for connection data.". After a while I get the "Cannot connect to a NAT facilitator." error. tcpview still shows no connection attempt on port 6000 UDP.

I'm on the exact same boat; I've reviewed this thread religously alongside connection threads and have done EVERYTHING possible to try and get multiplayer games to work. Of course none of this has actually helped me. I am running x64 vista SP1.

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Spooky__
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Reply #23 April 23, 2009 12:56:34 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

For me it feels like I am on a dead end... with a roundabout I can't get out

  • The game is unable to connect to the NAT facilitator, to which it connects on port 6000 UDP.
  • I know that the game works on my laptop, since I already played it at home with a different internet connection.
  • This would suggest, that my other internet connection is at fault.
  • I already asked the ISP if port 6000 is somehow blocked by them. It is not.
  • Even if it were, the connection attempt on port 6000 should be visible with TCPview.
  • According to TCPview Demigod never tries to connect to cvp1/2.stardock.com.
  • This would suggest a software problem, either by Demigod itself or another application.
  • But I can rule that out, since I can play it fine with my Laptop on a different internet connection.
  • This would suggest a network problem.
  • However, Demigod never tries to connect to the NAT facilitator.
  • This would suggest a software problem.
  • Which I can rule out.
  • Therefore it's a network problem.
  • But Demigod never... etc., etc.
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Spooky__
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Reply #24 April 28, 2009 4:43:46 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I also contacted Stardock Support about this. I gave them a detailed description, as also shown here in the thread. At first they asked for even more information (Router firmware, type of DSL, tracert). Then they told me, that the issue is with my ISP and tht ADSL has issues with the P2P connection setup and that they are in the process of setting up a solution.

Which is fine, but I asked for more technical details, since I am using an ADSL connection in my home town too and everything works great there. I also explained that I never get to the part of connecting to other games. As far as I understand it, the NAT facilitator would provide me with the connection details of the other players in the game, but the game is never able to connect to the NAT facilitator. I also told them, that the game is supposed to connect to the NAT facilitator via port 6000 UDP, yet it never happens.

Another support guy suggested that I "could try the ImpulseReactorOptions application located in the Demigod\bin directory. This will allow you to specify the port range used to connect to the NAT facilitator, and forward ports accordingly." But I already did that of course and these are just the ports (or the port) on which other players will connect to me and not the port on which the NAT facilitator connects to me. Besides, I am unable to connect to the NAT facilitator, not the other way around.

 

Maybe the upcoming Proxy and updates will fix this somehow. I sure hope so.

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Spooky__
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Reply #25 April 29, 2009 9:00:16 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Today I am unable to ping cvp2.stardock.com at all. This gives me hope actually (that it will be solved by the proxies).

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