This game could use some more...power

One thing about Demigod that i really think is lacking are powerful abilities - both graphically and what they can achieve. Before you go "but but but artifacts!!' let me explain:

When you get to the end of the skill trees you can drop a point in a skill which should by all counts be the 'ultimate' skill in that line. When you get there, you're pretty deep into the game so you would expect as your Demigod gets more and more powerful, the type of skills he's using in the latter half of the game should really either be pretty damned special, OR he should have one character defining BIG skill.

These power abilities should not only LOOK big and badass but should also achieve something pretty large.

There are various artifacts that greatly increase each players stats and abilities but they dont really add anything 'powerful'. I find most games progress from start to finish along roughly the same path. There's always the same progression of citadel and creep upgrades, along with demigods themselves slowly becoming stronger and stronger. There's nothing really endgame that has you going, "Wow, that was @%*&% mad!!"

An example of what I am meaning is this: Each character should have some kind of powerful ability at the end of the tree(something that you can only get say lvl 15+ skill point count wise) where it is an exact extension of what their character is all about. These skills would define that character.

Examples:

* Torchbearer has some huge aoe nuke skill with a longer cooldown than his regular skills - perhaps even summons a 10 second volcano - like the ring of fire on steroids.

* Rook summons a much stronger type of tower which has much increased health/damage but only lasts for perhaps 10 seconds

* Sedna casts a really powerful aoe heal which lasts for around 10 seconds - or even something like war3's starfall ability - shooting star aoe damage type thing.

* Regulus has a very powerful rapid fire ability that hits multiple targets and does much increased damage with a fairly high cooldown/mana cost.

* Unclean Beast has an aoe (much bigger graphically) version of his main spit skill that targets a number of units

* Oak channel summons a number of spirits/ghosts which are much stronger than his regular minions but only last for 10-15 seconds with a highish cooldown on reuse.

* Queen of thorns does a huge thorn related earthquake or somesuch.

* Erobus - i wouldn't have a clue with him as I haven't played him once yet.

 

These are only off the top of my head examples. But each should be able to really turn a particular battle at any given point, should look big and glossy - you are high level now afterall, and they should be very strategic in their use - you would save them for use at a pivotal moment etc.

 

I just find the end of the line skills are somewhat underwhelming. It's nice to get these huge stat increases from artifacts and all that, but they're just underwhelming for a game where you have semi-gods fighting it out. When they get to the higher levels, what they're unleashing should be controllable and huge opposed to just huge stat increases from items.

 

Does that make sense? Do you agree? I guess if you have played DOTA you would be familiar with what I am getting at - I haven't played it for years but I recall there being say 3 staple skills you would level up and then (lvl 10?) you'd get a much bigger/better skill which became a bit of a higher level staple.

I really think this kind of thing could add another layer again to the gameplay, rather than going through the same plodding motions round after round. A little more 'power' would work wonders.

2c

4,964 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top

Erobus - i wouldn't have a clue with him as I haven't played him once yet.
End of quote

Summoning 40-50 Rolly Pollies seems fitting.

 

Unclean Beast has an aoe (much bigger graphically) version of his main spit skill that targets a number of units
End of quote

Why not a tongue lasso?

 

 

I agree that super abilities would be cool. Maybe as a reward for reaching level 20, no points needed (you just get it).

Reply #2 Top

Yeah I agree, as long as they are on massive cooldowns so that you really need to pick and choose when to use them.

 

I think it would be nice to have 2 per DG that are tied into the tree pre-requisites as well, obviously a little more work but let's face it there are only 8 DG's, and these are only spell effects :P

Reply #3 Top

Quoting AngryZealot, reply 1

Erobus - i wouldn't have a clue with him as I haven't played him once yet.


Summoning 40-50 Rolly Pollies seems fitting.

 
Unclean Beast has an aoe (much bigger graphically) version of his main spit skill that targets a number of units


Why not a tongue lasso?

 
I agree that super abilities would be cool. Maybe as a reward for reaching level 20, no points needed (you just get it).
End of AngryZealot's quote

Well what i wrote as examples was just off the top of my head as i wrote but you understand what i mean at least :) And yeah perhaps a free reward like you said but i wouldnt make it lvl 20 as you want to actually see these things ingame and being used - maybe like lvl 16 or something.

Reply #4 Top

Maybe thats something for future expansions to work towards but at the moment the biggest thing to keep in mind is aesthetics have to take a back seat to balance and gameplay.

If everybody was running around with the kind of power you are talking about the game would be nothing but running to the centre, mashing some buttons then running back from the respawn because everybody died in a cataclysmic whirlwind of devastation.

It would be like trying to balance a feather on the scales with nothing but various sized bowling balls to use as weights.

Reply #5 Top

First player to get one of these would utterly screw the game for the other team.

 

:fox:

Reply #6 Top

Nah i think you guys don't understand what I mean exactly - these arent _game-breakingly_ powerful, they're just a better more class defined skill that should be the kind of thing you're seeing with the higher level demigods

 

For example - Sedna might channel a really strong AOE heal for 5-10 seconds that might be pivotal in a fight for healing her ally demigods - however if you hit her it's interupted etc.


In no way would these skills be massively overpowered and game-breaking-  BUT they might definitively give them the advantage in say a battle for a flag/chokepoint/whatever when used at the right time.


Again if you have played DOTA, you'd know what kind of level of power I am talking - not just an IWIN button.

 

Don't you ever feel that the end of the game doesn't look or feel ultimately very different from the early/mid game? You have more skills sure, but there's nothing really definitive other than the stat type boosts / +attk speed etc from artifacts - no real class defining abilities.

Reply #7 Top

I think they should still cost points (maybe even 2 points!), the best thing is when you have a choice to pick something over something else.  Gives a bit more variety to the limited number of demigods as well.

 

These type of abilities do work as seen in DOTA, and on a significant cooldown it means you don't use them unless you really have to - but pulling it out at the right time can be mega fun.

Reply #8 Top

Well Deepjay I can either fault my comprehension of what you said or how you said it but in the end that does not matter. The idea is more important so lets talk about that.

With the clarification you just made I would still lean towards the first part of my post - That is that the proposed changes you would like to see is future expansion material.

Frogboy has made it pretty clear that this is only the beginning and that there are plenty of plans to grow Demigod beyond the initial release. The most important thing to do with the initial release is get the game engine right, models, textures, some starting demigods and some fun gameplay.

Without getting the basics right you cant develop a player base and get a franchise going - once that happens though you are afforded with the luxury of making the game deeper and more complex while hopefully retaining the same level of fun as the original.

Of course that said maybe now is the time to start thinking about additions to Demigod but keep in mind those changes are most likely months down the track.

The reason why I think Demigod is the way it is now is because of balance. While the powers you suggest (and I am viewing these powers in the manner you clarified) are only an incremental increase it would make the balance process harder and could result in serious gameplay issues.

Think of increasing the power of the Demigods as driving with a slightly out of alignment wheel on your car. Think of speed as being directly proportional to how powerful you make the Demigods. Its not until you start going really fast that you start to notice something is wrong with the 'balance' of the wheel.

If we start off with somewhat lesser powered Demigods these kinds of balance issues will not show. By bringing the level of power up later on the Devs can spend all their focus on balance as opposed to all the other issues that need their attention when they are trying to get a brand new game out onto the market.

While it may seem like I'm discounting your idea I actually do like it.

I definately think that there should be a lot more choices, particularily hard choices, over which abilities to take. The problem with increasing the number of abilities to take is it makes the balance process harder. Its entirely possible not to forsee a certain combination of abilities or a certain playstyle that is too powerful.

I do agree that as these Demigods grow increasingly powerful that there should be reflections of that power in abilities. I do think that these level 15+ skills should be a rank above what is available below 15. But keep in mind that it is really really easy to completely stuff the balance with these powerful skills.

(I don't agree that these skills should be available at the end of a ability line though. That just makes things even more cookie cutter and takes away choice. I'm not saying that is what you said but I am clarifying what I think because it seems ambiguous from your post whether these abilities should only appear at the end of a tree with level requirments or simply unlock from level requirements)

I think its also worth considering which direction the game should go. If we focus on more powerful abilities for the existing Demigods that means there will be less room to introduce new Demigods. Each new Demigod will have to match up to the others so there will always be an issue between complexity and diversity.

I hope I've developed my thoughts on the problems with power and balance here clearly. Its definately an interesting discussion :thumbsup:

 

Reply #9 Top

This is why they need good modding support, so regardless of what they end up doing the community can come up with what they want.

Reply #10 Top

I definitely see where the OP is coming from. Demigod is not a very flashy or visually interesting game. It lacks the "wow" abilities and massive carnage you would expect from super powerful beings doing battle. Most of the high level powers and items are simply invisible stat increases or passive additions. Instead of epic confrontations late game, you have demigods zipping around like Benny Hill, swinging a weapon every 0.40 seconds. Far from being impressive displays of power, it actually ends up looking goofy.

I think Torchbearer is by far the best character as far as having varied ability effects that actually look and feel powerful to use. He should've been the template for the other demigods.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting SkepticalMind, reply 10
I definitely see where the OP is coming from. Demigod is not a very flashy or visually interesting game. It lacks the "wow" abilities and massive carnage you would expect from super powerful beings doing battle. Most of the high level powers and items are simply invisible stat increases or passive additions. Instead of epic confrontations late game, you have demigods zipping around like Benny Hill, swinging a weapon every 0.40 seconds. Far from being impressive displays of power, it actually ends up looking goofy.

I think Torchbearer is by far the best character as far as having varied ability effects that actually look and feel powerful to use. He should've been the template for the other demigods.
End of SkepticalMind's quote

 

/signed

Reply #12 Top

I think the game lacks blood and all sort of boddy parts flying around
and i think its all the americans foult, you kids got nasty parents that vote for all the anti violance bullshit.
No other country in the world got an anti violance in computer games organisation, only the americans meh...

Imagine a game where you can see your head torn off after Regolus head shot you
or where you arm is torn off and a stady stream of blood flows all over
where after a battle vs lots of creep, the floor would of be red and full of boddy parts

now thats fun
but unfortunalty there are some fuck up kids who think they are spacial, so they go and shoot students
over at the school, and then everyone blame the computer games... (only in USA that is)

Reply #13 Top

You shouldnt go overboard with effects. if you do, i might need to disable them to not be permalinded all the time.

 

 

Reply #14 Top

Quoting SkepticalMind, reply 10
I definitely see where the OP is coming from. Demigod is not a very flashy or visually interesting game. It lacks the "wow" abilities and massive carnage you would expect from super powerful beings doing battle. Most of the high level powers and items are simply invisible stat increases or passive additions. Instead of epic confrontations late game, you have demigods zipping around like Benny Hill, swinging a weapon every 0.40 seconds. Far from being impressive displays of power, it actually ends up looking goofy.

I think Torchbearer is by far the best character as far as having varied ability effects that actually look and feel powerful to use. He should've been the template for the other demigods.
End of SkepticalMind's quote

This I agree with.

Seeing demigods race across the map is kind of rediculous.. :) I've seen the QoT go from 0 to 100 in like 0.1 second... Funny, but it does not match with the feeling you have with these characters. Especially the speed and attack speed increases possible towards the end make the game feel very fakey. This is more to do with the items of course, not the skills of the demigods themselves. But having more kickass abilities instead of huge spead increases would make more sense.

But demigod not visually interesting? I see plenty of very nice effects happening in combat, I'd call it flashy enough. 

 

Reply #15 Top

I think this comes from the DOTA formula of 'level your mundane spells until level 6 when you get not only a very powerful ability, but usually one that defines your characters playstyle'. Its a good idea, and works for DOTA, but with the current setup for Demigod, it wouldn't be as easy as just slotting it at the end of the skill trees.

I agree 100% that the bonus skills at the end of certain ability branches don't really seem to pack as much punch as the 'ultimate' abilities in DOTA, and as a result, the gameplay can be bland in comparison. I believe the devs could have been a little more bold with the effects, but I guess the more crazy spells they implement, the harder the game will be to balance.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Demigod3k, reply 12
I think the game lacks blood and all sort of boddy parts flying around
and i think its all the americans foult, you kids got nasty parents that vote for all the anti violance bullshit.
No other country in the world got an anti violance in computer games organisation, only the americans meh...

Imagine a game where you can see your head torn off after Regolus head shot you
or where you arm is torn off and a stady stream of blood flows all over
where after a battle vs lots of creep, the floor would of be red and full of boddy parts

now thats fun
but unfortunalty there are some fuck up kids who think they are spacial, so they go and shoot students
over at the school, and then everyone blame the computer games... (only in USA that is)
End of Demigod3k's quote
Stereotyping at its best.

 

:fox:

Reply #17 Top

It would be cool if you had to max out a couple skill trees to get the power effect.  If you combined skill tree 1 and 2 you get powerSkill X, but if you go with skill tree 3 and 4 you get powerskill Y.  Or if you go with skill tree 1 and 4 you get powerskill Z.

Or some combination of skills.  So for rook if you max the tower skill and the drain structure skill you can combine the two maxed skills and get a power tower that does more damage and gives health to all friendly units in the area (no need for rook to drain it).  Obviously with a big cool down associated with using it.

Reply #18 Top

Quoting Kitkun, reply 16

Stereotyping at its best.
End of Kitkun's quote

Lets hope he does not figure out what you meant by that ;P