lprometheus lprometheus

Lord Erebus Bite Unbalanced

Lord Erebus Bite Unbalanced

Erebus is stinking up the Pantheon all I get anymore is Two Vamps. First bite is way out of control he is the only DG that gets damage + heal+ - armor in one skill. Also the Mana cost is way to low and every 7 sec come on. Then you have the night walkers they should be equal in number and damage to the oaks spirits that was nerfed in the beta. While on the pantheon I think that light and dark should have unique DG there should not two of a kind unless you are in 5v5. This needs to be fixed ASAP. :cylon:

 

37,335 views 88 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting Extacide, reply 9

First of all, there are only so many skills to choose from, and many of them are universal and pretty standard to have on the demigod. Pretty much every demigod has one, and every single demigod build give or take a rook or two require these skills to get kills.
End of Extacide's quote

Kudos on managing to immediately being offensive, which typically indicates you've already started losing the argument.

The devs have talked for a long time about how you don't need to have so many heros like DOTA because there are so many skills. If there are skills that you essentially need to get to be competitive, then it is a huge game design failure. Why not just have the DG all start with that specific skill and just have it level up with them then if everyone is going to get it anyways?


Currently, the only variation with some of these skills is whether you get them a level earlier or later when it would be much better to have an actual choice of whether or not to get them.

You're also not accounting for the fact that even though all players have a "nuke" skill of some sort, the majority of those skills aren't really brought up as being overpowered. Spit, snipe, and bite are the only ones that really come up.

Krazikarl: Extracide directly brought up the amount of time horseradish had played, by accusing him of not playing enough. This is perhaps the only time it is 100% valid for horseradish to throw those stats in his face. In no way did he say he was better than everyone because of that.

 

Reply #52 Top

Krazikarl: Extracide directly brought up the amount of time horseradish had played, by accusing him of not playing enough. This is perhaps the only time it is 100% valid for horseradish to throw those stats in his face. In no way did he say he was better than everyone because of that.

End of quote

Uh, thats not what I see.  He (Extracide) said that Horseradish might have a little MORE experience than him, but argued that it wasnt relevant to the conversation.  Horseradish then responded to that by saying that because he had more experience he was right despite not posting any kind of argument beyond "Me Beta tester, me right".  Granted Extracide earlier was saying that people who disagreed with him obvious knew nothing mostly because they disagreed with him, so I'm not saying its completely one sided, but Horseradish took it to the most ridiculous extreme first.  I'm just objecting to that type of stuff in general, and he provided the clearest example of elitism in a game that is 2 weeks old so thats what I used.

Reply #54 Top

I'll explain why I bring experience into this argument:

 

The reason why I'm going into all of these balance threads and bashing the crap out of people debating for nerfs, is because no one has any actual experience, in organized team play, against organized teams, to justify whether a nerf is needed. Pantheon/custom games do nothing but scatter players of very mixed skill levels, and the best always come out on top. There is no real reference however to put these "good" players side by side with, so everyone's first assumption is that the char, not the player is overpowered. There IS no medium for organized team play, other than the few ESL tournaments and the occasional team scrimmages, which are few and rare at this point. I don't think anyone can go into custom games/pantheon and have any idea how the balance is. It's only based on their experience against players of a wide range of skill. They demand balance changes only because THEY seen an erebus rape, where as the other half of demigod has had no problems with erebus. It's not because of how well played the erebus was. It was a mixture of how well played the Erebus was, how well the teammates were to support the erebus, and on the opposite side, how well YOU played, and how well your TEAM supported YOU. It's ALOT more than just, 'WTF BITE IS OP.'

 

You also must take into mind, that this is a team game, that for the most part relies on players to work together. As I said before, Pantheon and Custom games are for the most part, a bunch of random people playing together. Demigod hasn't really opened up to massive organized team play, i.e. clans/team pantheon/major ongoing tournaments yet, so we don't know whats REALLY overpowered. We just know how one player with one demigod plays against another.

 

Even if you do play organized team matches, I don't think two weeks is enough to warrant any nerf. As I said before, again, theres no medium to compare yourself to. When statistics (broken, statistics) are listed, you only see the number one demigod. Not the demigod combination. I don't think everyone has taken nearly enough time, or played nearly enough matches to learn their demigod THOROUGHLY, inside out, every strategy, every counter, to say they're OP. This goes back again to the first paragraph, where I say that experience already counts for nothing when you're playing with people you dont know, against people who dont know eachother. The teamwork is minimal.

 

So, now you have all of these people putting up threads demanding nerfs and saying one demigod is overpowered, when they really have no idea how these demigods function, in a FULLY functional team. Even the few who played some organized matches; I don't think they know well enough after playing so few matches against SO few demigod combinations, so few strategies and such polarized levels of skill, to say with any confidence that something should be nerfed. If they go ahead and nerf something, while it may balance the demigod on a 1v1 level, it will probably send a viable role for a demigod within a team to the bottom and eliminate it's effectiveness. But like I said, I don't think anyone has even gotten to this point yet, where they're playing with a team of friends using ventrilo against another team, both of which know what they're doing. It's been the complete opposite up to now (for the most part).

 

Instead of wasting GPG's time with worthless balance threads that regress the game, we should be allowing them to fix the bugs, IMPLEMENT the team pantheon where I really think the balance will reveal itself, and then judge whats overpowered when we see what teams dominate the top. (If it's a five erebus team, I'll grovel before all of your feet); However, not even I can imagine that happening.

Reply #55 Top

I don't think his bite is OP.  I take bites out of people all the time, and it's not like it does drastic damage to their hit points.  I take bites out of Sedna all day long, and sit there and watch her hit points tick UP, not down.

He has at least two weaknesses that always stand out when I play him.  The first weakness is that he doesn't have a "real" AOE spell, like hammer slam, ice storm, etc.  Sure, you can say that his bats damage everything in their path, but that skill doesn't come early, and it can't really be used as a spammable AOE attack.  Mist doesn't cut it either.  The point I'm making is, it's hard to level up on creeps the way everyone else does because of the lack of AOE.  I always find myself slipping behind everyone else a few levels.

Second weakness that always stands out when I play him - he doesn't have a ranged attack.  It always seems there's a wave of enemy creeps standing in range of their own towers while fighting a wave of my creeps, with me standing there wishing I had a ranged attack so I could hit them and level up.

Don't get me wrong, I think Erebus is good.  I'm just not convinced that he's OP at this juncture.  My opinion may very well change at some point though.

Reply #56 Top

Quoting Extacide, reply 4
I'll explain why I bring experience into this argument:

 

The reason why I'm going into all of these balance threads and bashing the crap out of people debating for nerfs, is because no one has any actual experience, in organized team play, against organized teams, to justify whether a nerf is needed. Pantheon/custom games do nothing but scatter players of very mixed skill levels, and the best always come out on top. There is no real reference however to put these "good" players side by side with, so everyone's first assumption is that the char, not the player is overpowered. There IS no medium for organized team play, other than the few ESL tournaments and the occasional team scrimmages, which are few and rare at this point. I don't think anyone can go into custom games/pantheon and have any idea how the balance is. It's only based on their experience against players of a wide range of skill. They demand balance changes only because THEY seen an erebus rape, where as the other half of demigod has had no problems with erebus. It's not because of how well played the erebus was. It was a mixture of how well played the Erebus was, how well the teammates were to support the erebus, and on the opposite side, how well YOU played, and how well your TEAM supported YOU. It's ALOT more than just, 'WTF BITE IS OP.'

 

You also must take into mind, that this is a team game, that for the most part relies on players to work together. As I said before, Pantheon and Custom games are for the most part, a bunch of random people playing together. Demigod hasn't really opened up to massive organized team play, i.e. clans/team pantheon/major ongoing tournaments yet, so we don't know whats REALLY overpowered. We just know how one player with one demigod plays against another.

 

Even if you do play organized team matches, I don't think two weeks is enough to warrant any nerf. As I said before, again, theres no medium to compare yourself to. When statistics (broken, statistics) are listed, you only see the number one demigod. Not the demigod combination. I don't think everyone has taken nearly enough time, or played nearly enough matches to learn their demigod THOROUGHLY, inside out, every strategy, every counter, to say they're OP. This goes back again to the first paragraph, where I say that experience already counts for nothing when you're playing with people you dont know, against people who dont know eachother. The teamwork is minimal.

 

So, now you have all of these people putting up threads demanding nerfs and saying one demigod is overpowered, when they really have no idea how these demigods function, in a FULLY functional team. Even the few who played some organized matches; I don't think they know well enough after playing so few matches against SO few demigod combinations, so few strategies and such polarized levels of skill, to say with any confidence that something should be nerfed. If they go ahead and nerf something, while it may balance the demigod on a 1v1 level, it will probably send a viable role for a demigod within a team to the bottom and eliminate it's effectiveness. But like I said, I don't think anyone has even gotten to this point yet, where they're playing with a team of friends using ventrilo against another team, both of which know what they're doing. It's been the complete opposite up to now (for the most part).

 

Instead of wasting GPG's time with worthless balance threads that regress the game, we should be allowing them to fix the bugs, IMPLEMENT the team pantheon where I really think the balance will reveal itself, and then judge whats overpowered when we see what teams dominate the top. (If it's a five erebus team, I'll grovel before all of your feet); However, not even I can imagine that happening.
End of Extacide's quote

:banhammer:   http://www.esl.eu/eu/demigod/2on2/opening_cup/rankings/

I guess I still own you Pwn3d again Your experince is nothing compared to most

Reply #57 Top

I guess I still own you Pwn3d again Your experince is nothing compared to most
End of quote

 

This kid is amazing. You won, ONE ESL tournament. Half of the participants didn't even show up, and we weren't even in the same bracket side. If you weren't so fucking retarded and actually read what I said, the last two ESL tournaments count for nothing; They're only the beginning. Like 5 competent teams can really represent the balance. 

 

Just stop talking. You're a useless tool.

 

 

Reply #58 Top

Quoting Extacide, reply 7

I guess I still own you Pwn3d again Your experince is nothing compared to most


 

This kid is amazing. You won, ONE ESL tournament. Half of the participants didn't even show up, and we weren't even in the same bracket side. If you weren't so fucking retarded and actually read what I said, the last two ESL tournaments count for nothing; They're only the beginning. Like 5 competent teams can really represent the balance. 

 

Just stop talking. You're a useless tool.

 

 
End of Extacide's quote

Wouldn't have mattered you would have lost anyway My teammate plays a mean ass Erebus!!!!!

Reply #59 Top

Wouldn't have mattered you would have lost anyway My teammate plays a mean ass Erebus!!!!!
End of quote

#:(

 

Reply #60 Top

FACE

PALM

On another note, I think that at least the snare ought to be removed from Bite. The snare combined with Bat Swarm makes it impossible to get away if you don't start running very, very early.

Reply #61 Top

coman but that is like if ur fighting a aoe tb  frost nova plus  circle off fire and fire nova and rain of ice can be very painful 

not in that order  it is all about using ur skills well

Reply #62 Top

So, for the sake of arguing, I'll call sedna unbalanced because she can use a 1500 heal every 5 seconds and she has a super health regen.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting smlamb, reply 12
So, for the sake of arguing, I'll call sedna unbalanced because she can use a 1500 heal every 5 seconds and she has a super health regen.
End of smlamb's quote

6 secs and if u make her super regen then she wont  have high lvl pounce or move speed  aso u can kill her

Reply #64 Top

Can someone lock this its turned into a flame fest it deserves the mega:

--------------___________________________________________--------------

 

Reply #65 Top

Quoting Cowbuttzex, reply 14
Can someone lock this its turned into a flame fest it deserves the mega:

--------------___________________________________________--------------

 
End of Cowbuttzex's quote

i have to concure this post isn't getting anywere and everyone ios already well aware of how erebus is  and  having another thread bitching about it wont change it

Reply #66 Top

On another note, I think that at least the snare ought to be removed from Bite. The snare combined with Bat Swarm makes it impossible to get away if you don't start running very, very early.
End of quote

Well, it's nothing compared to unclean beast's snare.  You can't even get away if you start running the instant you see him clear the fog of war.  You can't teleport away either - he just stuns you as you are teleporting, ruining the teleport and also forcing it to cooldown as if you teleported when you really didn't.

My only point is you can't nerf erebus without nerfing unclean beast, and probably other demigods as well.

Reply #67 Top

Increase Bites mana cost slightly and give it diminishing returns (does less the more you use it on the same person)

Reply #68 Top

Quoting Shadowrhino, reply 17
Increase Bites mana cost slightly and give it diminishing returns (does less the more you use it on the same person)
End of Shadowrhino's quote

 

i would have to say that is a stupid idea  because player wil stop being him because  in late battles his attack wiol only do 100

Reply #69 Top

Quoting si1foo, reply 18

Increase Bites mana cost slightly and give it diminishing returns (does less the more you use it on the same person)
 

i would have to say that is a stupid idea  because player wil stop being him because  in late battles his attack wiol only do 100
End of si1foo's quote

 

That was brief explanation of diminishing returns. The damage reduction fades after time

[example] erebus Bites oak for 300 then after 7 seconds bites again for 220.Then erebus runs away and comes back 15 seconds later and does 280 with bite then runs away again and after 30 seconds the damage on oak is back to 300.now say after attacking oak twice he attacks unclean beast. the damage would then be 300

This stops Erebus from relying on Bite for every fight

Reply #70 Top

Quoting Shadowrhino, reply 19

Quoting si1foo, reply 18
Increase Bites mana cost slightly and give it diminishing returns (does less the more you use it on the same person)
 

i would have to say that is a stupid idea  because player wil stop being him because  in late battles his attack wiol only do 100
 

That was brief explanation of diminishing returns. The damage reduction fades after time

[example] erebus Bites oak for 300 then after 7 seconds bites again for 220.Then erebus runs away and comes back 15 seconds later and does 280 with bite then runs away again and after 30 seconds the damage on oak is back to 300.now say after attacking oak twice he attacks unclean beast. the damage would then be 300

This stops Erebus from relying on Bite for every fight
End of Shadowrhino's quote

 

but why shouldn't he it isn't like it does amazing dmg  if ur smart u can beat him if ur a dumbass then ur dead

stop trying to change skills because u can't win againist them find a away to beat them without having to change it

Reply #71 Top

This stops Erebus from relying on Bite for every fight
End of quote

 

Uhh...

 

I thought he RELIED on bite, because of his low HP and lack of melee power vs. other demigods? That kind of logic is like nerfing Oak's invuln because he relies on it every fight. Why do people want to regress the game by nerfing what makes demigods unique and viable; Especially when they really have no insight to call any shots on this.

Reply #72 Top

come on bite anit that powerful it is the weakest of the main attacks  

pounce does more 

spit does more

fireball does more 

snipe does more

hammer does more

qots attack are aoe  so overal do more

oak does  i think a bit more with pentience and his aoe does like 50 less

 

so when u think about it it isn't that unbalanced  he doesn't do great dmg per hit  so bite is pretty useful and so what if it is like having 2 skills in 1  that justs means it is more useful

 

Reply #73 Top

Wow im really seeing a pattern here

Extacide - Long post all insults

Extacide - Insults

Extacide - "im better then you"

Extacide - " youre a noob"

Extacide - insults

Reply #74 Top

no insulting each other  it is a fucking waste off space

Reply #75 Top

This stops Erebus from relying on Bite for every fight
End of quote

But the point is, erebus RELIES ON BITES.  It is a necessity.  If you take that away, then he has nothing to rely on, thus he sucks.