lambdaman

Join Date 04/2006

+14

Anyone have ideas on beating the invincible classes?

That annoying cat-girl and that nasty fairy

The title refers, of course, to Sedna and the Queen of Thorns. Some of the other Demigods give me a little trouble, but none of them is as flat-out annoying as the girls. Most players don't know how to use them properly, but every once in a while I run into a player who does nothing but spam their heal / shield all game, and there's nothing I can do. Fight them? You're taking damage the whole time, and every seven seconds they negate everything you did to them. Go where they aren't? They'll follow you and harass you, or knock down your towers, or capture flags, and since you can't go near them without being wounded and having to run away, they have the run of the map. Buy potions? Great, welcome to the world of having your base knocked down by catapults that she bought with all the gold she didn't spend on potions.

I just don't know what to do about them. Everything I try is totally ineffective and leaves me worse off than before. [e digicons][/e]

I just played a Dominate game where I got crushed by a Sedna who (unusually) knew the meaning of the word "teamwork". I could kill her Regulus partner easily if I caught him by himself, and I could more or less handle her on her own, for a while, but after I got a few kills early on, they decided to pair up and head around the map together. Every time I tried to capture a flag, they showed up together about ten seconds later and I had to run. (where was my teammate? Charging them both while I wasn't around to help and dying...) Even when we both attacked Regulus at the same time, she could heal him faster than we did damage, even with Spit and Bite going off at the same time. At the same time, we were wounded enough that I had to bat out and the Beast got killed after he failed to run. And no, we hadn't fed them tons of gold (even right at the end, I think my teammate had only 5 deaths) and they weren't higher level (in fact, I was the highest level person in the game).

I don't mind losing, but I just don't see what I could have done to change the outcome of the game, and I hate that feeling. And this isn't the only game that's ended up like this; every time I run into a real support healer I just end up totally impotent and unable to do anything but bang my head on a wall. In fact, the one time I tried playing a support healer I did the same thing to our enemies

Maybe I should just play her for a while and see how people beat me. [e digicons]:S[/e]

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gotta use interrupts to prevent her from healing.

it can be hard to do with some characters, but others are well equipped to interrupt a heal and finisher her off.

Oak can do this easily even at range with Penitence.

Erebus can't do much. if you get lucky on the charge up time you can use Mass Charm but its unreliable.

Sedna is great at interrupts with Silence and Pounce. she's one of the best characters to fight herself with actually.

Queen has not interrupts at all. its a pure attrition match in this case, you just have to have more mana.

Beast can use Foul Grasp to finish her off. if you time it right she'll die during the Grasp.

Rook can try to Boulder Roll, but unless she's right next to you she'll probably finish the Heal by the time the boulder gets to her.

Torchbearer can interrupt easily with Deep Freeze. this will also lock her out of spell casting for like 7 seconds so its generally extremely effective against her. fire mode has nothing though, you have to go ice to deal with Sedna.

Regulus can't interrupt very well but can use Mark of the Betrayer to punish her for using the heal, it helps a bit.

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Don't be afraid to have a buddy come and help gang up on them. Some demigods are just meant to tank 1 on 1 like it's nothing, and there's not much you can do about it except outnumber them.

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I still haven't really come across skilled Qot or Sedna players. I've never had a problem with them. If you feel like you can't take them on, don't worry about them. Focus on creep killing, flag capturing, destroying structure, citadel upgrades, lane dominance, paving a pathway for creeps to hit citadel, supporting your teammates, etc etc etc. Just don't worry about them. Focus on the objective. If you're playing slaughter, double team them or focus on their teammates.... not really a big deal. You have to remember, if most of there points are into defense, what does that mean about their offense? Means even though they can take damage, they can't dish damage. Interupts, higher DPS, certain items, strategic thinking, trapping, and team work will net you a kill against Qot and Sedna. AOE are great too for qiping out their creeps, leaving them with even less DPS.

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Protocept00 seems to have it down. What level are you anyway Proto? I've seen you around some of the fourm replies and most of them i used myself and they really helped.

oh and Lambdaman, i feel your pain. Im mostly a fire spec TB and umm... well QoT and Sedna are a real pain in the ass.

Kudos

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Oaks and Erebuses (Erebi?) with armors/HP items pushing them over 4-5k HP give me the most trouble as QoT, because they both have a fair bit of burst damage and good staying power, which means they can harass your shield down till it's on cooldown without getting too low on health. Especially Erebus because he can heal with bite even through shield. Both these characters can usually push me into retreating pretty fast if none of my teammates show up.

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Playing Sedna, anything that interrupts me is annoying. Granted, I usually go for a ton of passive heal, and health steal, so I don't usually have to use heal much.

Sedna's weakness is her lack of range (her only ranged attack is pounce, and that uses mana), and her lack of Area effect (the only one she gets is 200 damage with the 4th heal). There are certain ways I get around this, but overall, it's still a big weakness.

EDIT: Oh, and unless specced for attack, I really like hunting the following: UB, Rook, Oak, QoT. Take from that what you will.

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Towering rook can beat them, but you have to lure them into the towers by looking like you're going to die.

Vamp + towering rook. Get them into towers, stun with vamp. They will shield/heal the offending person. Make sure vamp has minions, focus fire hero, boulder roll prior to them getting out of towers. Towers + vamp dps + rook dps + minion army + 2 stuns = dead hero. There's your solution. Obviously it is hard and takes teamwork, but they're using teamwork in the first place, how else do you expect to win?

As Vamp and Dog you really shouldn't win the matchup unless they make mistakes early on feeding you gold to be able to buy dps items to beat the shield and heal. Two dps classes are not the best combo in the game, if it worked best then all support classes would be useless.

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As an Erebus player, the only way I know of killing a tandem of girls is to outmanuever them and to use teamwork. It also greatly helps if you can pop some "surprise" burst damage on them when they're not expecting it. I'm talking, of course, about the Universal Gadget and the Warlord's Punisher (which is also useful for killing their minions and has a little mana drain).

The gadget's 650 one-shot damage can be very useful for landing a killing blow early in the game, the psychological effects of which may be greater than the economic effects. The Punisher is good for a midgame attrition war against the girls. That's all I got for ya.

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Quoting Protocept00,

reply 3

Like I said, I tried this last night. Every time I tried to do anything (capture a flag, push, etc) she zipped in, usually with Regulus in tow, and started picking at my health until I had to leave. It might have been less of a problem if we hadn't been on Crucible -- that map is so tiny that it's impossible to go anywhere that she isn't.

Focus on the objective. If you're playing slaughter, double team them or focus on their teammates.... not really a big deal. You have to remember, if most of there points are into defense, what does that mean about their offense? Means even though they can take damage, they can't dish damage.

That's why I could beat Sedna on her own -- it took a long time, but I could slowly wear her down over ~30 seconds (I dealt about 300-400 more damage than she healed each heal period, as I recall). Problem is, as soon as Regulus showed up, their damage went way up, and I still couldn't make much more than a dent in them. And if she was nearly dead at that point, I was probably half-dead, and I couldn't possibly take both of them on.

I think part of the problem is that my partner was an Unclean Beast, so his Spit was pretty much useless (higher levels of Heal cancel it), and the Beast doesn't have much else until he has a lot of equipment. So double-teaming them was not very effective.

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With the Sedna / Regulus combo going on the way to handle them is actually really simple. Split your dps.

Have one person on Regulus, preferably the Beast, you said you could handle him easily as Erebus but if the Beast is high enough he is the best for killing him. While the Beast goes on Regulus you stick on Sedna. If she heals Reg then she is gonna be in trouble pretty damn quick and you can chase her down (don't let her Heart of Life if you can help it). Reg will be well cocky and a cocky Regulus vs the Beast is an EASY EASY EASY EASY kill for the Beast. With 1 health pot the Beast will handle a Regulus with 1 heal (pretty sure Sedna wont throw Regulus more than 1 heal if you are on her).

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Hmm, I'll remember that next time. It's hard to coordinate that in the middle of a fight, and I don't know if my partner was listening to anything I said that game (he never replied to my messages that he really should run now, and not fight them both on his own). I guess maybe the real lesson is that teamwork beats not-teamwork, no surprise there.

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Its not about teamwork in most cases its just the sedna or QoT trying to stick to someone else. Try catching them off guard by a well placed health potion or interupt and never try to take them on when they have the number advantage.

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