Why is it I can connect to players perfectly fine in the lobby with nice pings, but when game starts its a lagfest?

from Demigod Forums

Okay, just to clarify, 2 vs 2, works perfectly fine for me.

But 3 vs 3 doesn't. I can go into a lobby with 5 other players and we connect fast and just fine with decent pings.  I don't understand how I can connect fast, have good pings in the lobby, but as soon as the 3 vs 3 match starts my pings shoot up to like 3000 with every player... everyone then ends up bitching at me about "lying about my ping" and so forth.

I've assumed now, that when you enter a game itself it takes up more bandwidth... but the impression I've gotten from some other players is that, I shouldn't have even been able to get into the lobby.

What causes this?

And just so you know, I've forwarded my ports, Impulse Reactor options, shut off firewalls, antivirus, etc when playing Demigod.

Some users have told me it's me it's my internet speed, but others have told me different. I'm confused. I technically should not have been able to get into a lobby with 5 other players then with good pings then if it was my internet speed that was the problem, right?

7,477 views 64 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

Just to clarify, I understand how P2P works. The slowest user drags everyone else to his/her level. And everytime (in 3 vs 3 or higher only) it's usually me, but when I play 2 vs 2 it is completly fine and have a nice strong connection with everyone.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Ping spikes can be caused by insufficient upload bandwidth. There are quite a few people out there with low end DSL connection for example who have very limited upload bandwidth, and they can only play with 3 other people (2v2) and nothing more.

Those people who said, that you wouldn't have been able to get into the lobby due to insufficient upload bandwidth do not know what the are talking about ;).

 

Also this has nothing to do with "the slowest user".

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 2
Ping spikes can be caused by insufficient upload bandwidth. There are quite a few people out there with low end DSL connection for example who have very limited upload bandwidth, and they can only play with 3 other people (2v2) and nothing more.

Those people who said, that you wouldn't have been able to get into the lobby due to insufficient upload bandwidth do not know what the are talking about .

 

Also this has nothing to do with "the slowest user".

But why is that I can get into the lobby, connect with so many people with nice pings and then as soon as I enter the game it's extremely laggy, and my connections with everybody shoot up to the thousands? That's the only part I don't understand.

What I was saying is that in P2P, all it takes is one user with a shitty connection or simspeed, to slow or hinder the performance of the game for everyone else, causing lag, etc.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Protocept00, reply 3
But why is that I can get into the lobby, connect with so many people with nice pings and then as soon as I enter the game it's extremely laggy, and my connections with everybody shoot up to the thousands? That's the only part I don't understand.
But you do understand:
I've assumed now, that when you enter a game itself it takes up more bandwidth.
:D

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Hm, I can't edit my posts in this thread. The long original thread title seems to break that or something.
Test your bandwidths at speedtest.net.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 4

Quoting Protocept00, reply 3But why is that I can get into the lobby, connect with so many people with nice pings and then as soon as I enter the game it's extremely laggy, and my connections with everybody shoot up to the thousands? That's the only part I don't understand.But you do understand:quoting postI've assumed now, that when you enter a game itself it takes up more bandwidth.

Haha, just because I assume does not mean I understand, which an be said about anyone. lol.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

When did you start to have this problem?

I'm really sure that it's not a case of insufficient upload bandwidth, at least in my case is not.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

I have the same problem and I use a cable connection with over 2Mb/s uploads on average. People have reported this problem across a wide range of ISPs and variables.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Dead, reply 7
When did you start to have this problem?

I'm really sure that it's not a case of insufficient upload bandwidth, at least in my case is not.

Reduced 97%Original 616 x 337

I've had it ever since I first started playing and decided to try 3 vs 3 and higher games. It may or may not be a conection issue although I am surprised if it is. However, my connection speed DOES suck. I have terrible upload speeds.

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting SkepticalMind, reply 8
I have the same problem and I use a cable connection with over 2Mb/s uploads on average. People have reported this problem across a wide range of ISPs and variables.

Now, I definitely don't understand how you could be having this problem as you've got plenty of upload bandidth. I don't even have a MB of upload bandwidth. Yours might just simply be a case of the ISP strangling the connection.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 5
Hm, I can't edit my posts in this thread. The long original thread title seems to break that or something.
Test your bandwidths at speedtest.net.

 

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Wow, that's a very bad net connection.  That's worse than my Verizon 3G one.

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Protocept00, reply 6
Haha, just because I assume does not mean I understand, which an be said about anyone. lol.
Well, my point was, that you were right with your assumption. You get lag spikes in the game, because there is lots of data transferred from you to every other player.

And yeah, that's really terrible upload speed. I think you need about 25 kbit/sec per player in the game. So for a 2v2, you need 75 kbit, but for a 3v3 you already need 125 kbit, which scratches at your maximum upload speed already.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 13

Quoting Protocept00, reply 6Haha, just because I assume does not mean I understand, which an be said about anyone. lol.Well, my point was, that you were right with your assumption. You get lag spikes in the game, because there is lots of data transferred from you to every other player.
And yeah, that's really terrible upload speed. I think you need about 25 kbit/sec per player in the game. So for a 2v2, you need 75 kbit, but for a 3v3 you already need 125 kbit, which scratches at your maximum upload speed already.

Well Spooky, I just got off the phone with Verizon, I just upgraded to the fastest speed they have in the area, but isn't super fast but should be a huge improvement. @ 6pm tommorow I'll be getting 3mb download and 768kb upload... would this help some more in Demigod?

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 12
Wow, that's a very bad net connection.  That's worse than my Verizon 3G one.

*facepalm* Yep.

I just upgraded my connection, so after 6pm tommorow I should be seeing some better speed and connectivity performance. It isn't blindingly fast @ 3mb download with a 768kb upload, but I hope this will alleviate p2p games not supporting many players for me (it isn't just demigod that I have this upload speed problem). I needed to upgrade my speed anyways, so its all good.

 

I must say though Frogboy, that connection to Demigod has improved dramatically over the last few weeks. I can connect and get in and out of games easily and quickly, it is just my fault for having too a slow a connection to enjoy the game at it's fullest. I made sure and tested all of the advice that was posted around here before deciding to upgrade the connection, which it turns out afterall is the source of me not being able to enjoy 3 vs 3 games.

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

Please tell us tommorow, when you get the upgrade, if that improved the situation. As i've said, i have a better connection than you (4mb dnl and 1mb upload), and still have this problem. Hope it'll work for you, good luck!

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Protocept00, reply 14
Well Spooky, I just got off the phone with Verizon, I just upgraded to the fastest speed they have in the area, but isn't super fast but should be a huge improvement. @ 6pm tommorow I'll be getting 3mb download and 768kb upload... would this help some more in Demigod?
Yes, it probably will :)

Quoting Dead, reply 16
Please tell us tommorow, when you get the upgrade, if that improved the situation. As i've said, i have a better connection than you (4mb dnl and 1mb upload), and still have this problem. Hope it'll work for you, good luck!
Well, we know from Supreme Commander that those lag spikes can occur even when the upload bandwidth is more than enough. In some cases it happens due to firewalls (personal or general) or antivirus softwares scanning the traffic and delaying packets. But there are still a few cases where it's simply unresolved. However, could you check your bandwidth on speedtest.net anyway, just to confirm that everything is fine there?

Reply #18 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 17

 However, could you check your bandwidth on speedtest.net anyway, just to confirm that everything is fine there?

Sure. I'm from Europe, but it doesn't matter with who i play, it's only in 4v4 and 5v5 games that is happening. No router, just cable modem, no firewall, antivirus turned off, vista x64. Torrents work fine, so my ISP doesn't seem to throttle p2p traffic.

Here it's to a server from Europe, Amsterdam:

 

 

 

 

 

  

  And here it's to a server from US (Tampa, Florida, the same used by Protocept, in reply #11, just for the sake of comparison):

Reply #19 from Demigod Forums Top

Ok :). The only thing I could suggest here is to temporarely uninstall the antivirus completely, just to rule it out (even if deactivated, the antivirus might have done something "bad" to the network stack).

Do you have any other software installed, that might have some influence on networking? Netlimiter or any Software from your cable ISP.

Reply #20 from Demigod Forums Top

No, it's not a software problem. I have dual boot, Vista x64 and Win 7 x64. The Win 7 is on another hard disk and it's a fresh install, without any programs installed, other than Demigod and drivers. Same problem there, very high spikes in 4v4 and 5v5 matches.

Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top

If you (deadghost) can find Xsive's thread on this topic it might give you some insight into what the problem might be in relation to spiking. Mine is primarily my upload speed not being enough. When I play a game (3 vs 3 or higher) my lag is a consistent 1000-3000 lol XD. And I mean consistent. It doesn't spike. So I'm pretty sure yours may simply just be case of some kind of packet sniffing on either your end or another users end.

If I can find Xsives thread I'll link here, as he seems to be making some headway into what the problem might be. I know he's having the same problem you are having and he has similar speeds as you.

Reply #22 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky, reply 19
Ok . The only thing I could suggest here is to temporarely uninstall the antivirus completely, just to rule it out (even if deactivated, the antivirus might have done something "bad" to the network stack).

Do you have any other software installed, that might have some influence on networking? Netlimiter or any Software from your cable ISP.

Funny, doing a complete uninstall of my anti-virus was one of the last things I did attempting to resolve the problem. Nothing helps. The problem still exists even with a direct modem-PC connection and every possible background task, service, firewall and program disabled. 100% open to the internet. My gaming PC is very clean to begin with. In fact, my experience with the game is virtually identical completely open as it is with my router and usual settings enabled. Nothing really seems to effect it at all, for better or worse.

Other P2P games work fine and torrents work fine, very unlikely an ISP throttling problem.

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Dead, reply 20
No, it's not a software problem. I have dual boot, Vista x64 and Win 7 x64. The Win 7 is on another hard disk and it's a fresh install, without any programs installed, other than Demigod and drivers. Same problem there, very high spikes in 4v4 and 5v5 matches.

Here Deaghost. I found the Topic I was talking about. This guy seems to be having similar problems and if you scroll down and read Xsives posts, he's been doing research into what that problem might be. Check it out, see if it helps. http://forums.demigodthegame.com/349642

Reply #24 from Demigod Forums Top

If you are using vista 64bit, then what I say might help you a bit...

There were some issues with realtek RTL8168C/811C (and maybe similar series of this device) ethernet drivers awhile back with vista 64x, I think it still have problem right now. Alot of people install a 2007 or earlier driver, which solved their network issues. Generally you can find the driver that came with your motherboard or search on web site of your computer brand company (dell, hp, etc).

You can find out what network card and driver information you have at device manager and click on the network adapters -> "insert network card name" -> property -> driver.

Reply #25 from Demigod Forums Top

For some reason I can't edit... but I wanted to say "people with XP generally don't have this issue."