[UB] The Beast Within - A Bestial Wrath Build

A build focused around a crap skill, especially using it early game when it gives you an even crappier bonus, is not going to work.

This is not going to work. I've seen builds that take Wrath late; which can work; it can let him really effectively pressure key structures. But you aren't going to beat UB, or even other DGs not as focused on anti-demigod tactis, by focusing on a skill that only really gets it use late-game and pouring points into it as it becomes available.

i'll just post the numbers. you can come to your own conclusions.

Venom Spit

rank 1 = 500 damage total

rank 2 = 900 damage total

rank 3 = 1300 damage total

rank 4 = 1650 damage total

rank 4 + Putrid Flow = up to 2150 damage (depends if they stay in the puddle)

Bestial Wrath

rank 1 = +25% weapon damage

rank 2 = +35% weapon damage

rank 3 = +45% weapon damage

rank 4 = +55% weapon damage

Unstoppable Wrath = +65% weapon damage and slow immunity

making a simplifying assumption to just use DPS instead of actual weapon swing damage, the required weapon DPS for equivalent damage dealing given the full 7 seconds duration in melee range with Bestial Wrath activated, these are the results

using formula Additional Wrath Damage   = [ Wrath% * Weapon_DPS/7 seconds ] - [Weapon_DPS/7]

and using formula to match damage between skills as

Spit_Damage = (Weapon_DPS*7)*(Wrath%-1)

solving for matching weapon damage gives

Weapon_DPS = Spit_Dmg/(Wrath%-1)*7

rank 1 Wrath matches rank 1 Spit at 285.7 weapon dps

rank 2 Wrath matches rank 2 Spit at 367.3 weapon dps

rank 3 Wrath matches rank 3 Spit at 412.7 weapon dps

rank 4 Wrath matches rank 4 Spit at 428.6 weapon dps

rank 5 Wrath matches rank 5 Spit at 472.5 weapon dps

for perspective, here are some numbers for base weapon dps for Beast at various levels.

level 1 = 120

level 4 = 144

level 7 = 170

level 10 = 197

level 15 = 247

note, all numbers are unmitigated damage. opponent armor value will still apply to these weapon dps numbers. also note that opponent may not remain in range for all 7 seconds of Bestial Wrath. 

your numbers are off.  i completly disagree. 

but if it works for you then thumbs up

whose numbers, mine?

they are not. if you've found a mistake i've made please help me correct it.

and no, it doesn't work for me. you need unrealistically high weapon damage for Wrath to even come close to Spit. 

This is a good guide for those that want to try it, but bestial wraith does suck up tons of mana.  I'd recommend starting with ooze first and then getting bestial wraith when you say to get ooze.  (In other words, replace the two skills)  Ooze is a lot more handy dandy early on for survivability and creep killing, while you'll have a bit of a hard time killing someone with the 7 second duration of bestial wraith, combined with the fact you won't be able to use it very much.    Tbh, you could make it work, but it's not a great skill.  It needs to cost WAY less mana for me to consider it personally.

The ability has a characteristic animation. Whenever I see the animation I just run, and by the time ub starts running after me  I am already out of range.

Back when I played as ub, and I wanted to experiment with bestial wrath, I always tried to activate it while still in fog of war, so that the opponent wouldn't know... but still.. half the time (or even whole at times) offered was wasted. In the end, I just used it to take down towers quickly.

I've wanted to like Bestial Wrath. Really. But it just doesn't measure up with either Venom Spit or Ooze.

And Bestial Wrath's animation besically being FALCON PUUUUUUNCH doesn't help one bit.

Beastial wrath is inferior.  Period.

Biggest issue, which has been mentioned is the cast time and animation.  It always seemed wierd to me Spit is instant but BW has cast.  As another poster mentioned, you can easily spot the animation and just move away.  With no speed boots or anklet (or ranged spit) you just wasted half, if not all, of your 7 seconds chasing.  Not to mention once people know you have it, they can just sit on Pounce or Penitence waiting for the instant interrupt.

Another thing to consider when comparing against Spit is the cool down.  Spit you can reapply spit immediately after wearing off.  BW has 7 seconds of nothing.  You're calculations above divide by 7seconds when really it should be 15.  If you were to compare Spit and BW over 15 seconds,  spit would win by near double.  I could be misunderstanding your forumla and you've already taken cooldown into effect though.

Also, even the weakest characters get around 20% mitigation without paying attention.  The ones that focus health/armor get around 50%.  If it works for you great, keep using it.  I've tried a lot of UB builds and experimented on my own.  BW builds just playing suck, in my opinion.

Spit has .3 cast, wrath has .5 cast.

I have actually considered an Essence of Magic Build for Unclean beast, which is:

Level 1 Spit

Level 2 Ooze

Level 3 Save

Level 4 Ooze 2, Spit 2

Level 5 grasp 1

Level 6 Wrath

Level 7 Spit 3

Level 8 Ooze 3

Level 9 Save

Level 10 Ooze 4, spit 4

At this point you have what I consider the best of all worlds, but a world that takes an immense amount of mana.  Spit/Grasp/Wrath (you can cast wrath while grasping, by the way) takes something like 2700 mana.  However you can completely annul that by triggering the Essence of magic first.)  As soon as you come out of grasp you are doing +25% damage. You use Ooze to get creep kills instead of Post Mortem.

Level 11 Wrath 2

Level 12 Wrath 3

Level 13 Wrath 4

Level 14 save

Level 15 Spit 5, Wrath 5

At the end of the game, when you are starting to get some major use out of your DPS, this is when you kick in the Wrath train.  If you've managed to pick up strong DPS items like Slayers Wraps and/or Mageslayer (Ashkandor goes without saying) then you have also maximized this.

Ultimately I've liked the idea of this build, but I haven't had a chance to try it out.  It seems to get all the good stuff, except post mortem, in roughly the order you should get it.  I agree that in rare cases does ooze or spit look worse than Wrath... which is why I don't get wrath until the end for the most part.  However, the FIRST POINT of Wrath is actually pretty strong compared to an INCREASE in the value of another skill.

QFT

every time I see him roar I just run

I dont need to hear his roaring and ill be one mile way if I know hes casting it.

The build itself is mostly proof of concept: Like I said, I'd only used it in one game. It's a shame an entire tech tree seems to be completely unviable, much like how Yetis seem to be for Sedna.

I really truly think it IS viable, just not early.  Late game, we all know how DPS from normal attacks starts dominating, and this ability works very well with that.  Seriously, try the build I posted there,  I think you'll be pleased.

The big difference is that Sedna's Yeti's are simply worthless, all the live long day.  BW just takes a while before it is worth picking up much of it.

I agree BW is more suited late game but, I'm assuming you've used this build, how do you handle the mana issues and no IB?   You mention Essence of Magic...can you really pull out Spit/Stun/BW in the 3 seconds?  Have you thought about using Blade of the Serpent?  Since you're using favor for mana control, no swift anklet, can you even stay in range of people?  Most take at least 1 if not both speed boots.  You have no slow or IB to catch up or keep in range. 

Serious questions...I like unique builds and am curious how you over come those issues.

UB's high innate speed + inner beast (which he skipped) + boots is enough to catch up to anybody not specifically built for speed (wand of speed, swift anklet, and boots of speed; just swift anklet and boots isn't enough.) Without Inner Beast, you can still chase down some people, but you are somewhat limited.

Yeah, but he doesn't include any of those.  His build didn't include IB, any speed boots or Diseased Claws.  That puts UB base movement at level 15 @ 6.6 with no slowing capability.  Exception being Rook, anyone with just Boots of Speed is at 6.6 or higher.  That doesn't include any abilities that enchance or slow (Bat Swarm, Inner Grace, Ice, Maim, Spikes, Penitence, etc)

I'm seriously asking how he can even stay melee range. 

edit: I'm getting confused between the two builds posted.  I'm unsure of Zechnophones equipment but he didn't take IB or Diseased Claws either.  Even with Boots of Speed, that puts UB movement at 6.9 with no slowing capabilities.  Anyone that can enhance their own speed or slow you more than 10% (which seems like everyone) will negate your boot bonus.  I still don't see how either build could keep up with anyone or out run. 

Sedna w/ Boots + IG = 7.15
Erebus w/ Boots = 6.93 + 30% Bite Slow
Unclean w/ Boots = 6.93 (no IB or DC)
QoT w/ Boots = 6.6 + 20% Spike Slow
Oak w/ Boots = 6.6 + 16% Penitence Slow
Regulus w/ Boots = 6.6 + Maim, Mines, MoTB slows
Torch w/ Boots = 6.6 + 20% Frost Nova, Permafrost slows
Rook w/ Boots = 5.9

Granted not everyone takes Boots but it is extremely common to have either Swift or Boots.

Picking up Boots of speed makes perfect sense.  I generally do not play with the style that I am going to outrun an opponent by any significant degree, but rather that I'm going to always win any actual confrontations with them.  Also, my friends and I pretty much always pick up the max level of any stun skill (max duration) because stun > speed.  This lets us combo together very suddenly, and very powerfully.

ANd yes, you can essence of mana to get all three of spit/grasp/wrath.  The trick behind it is that you can cast the wrath while grasping, meaning you don't lose 2 seconds of the 3 seconds.  Even then, in the early game that extra 7 mps allows for significantly more harrassment spits.

I actually prefer going for a bracelet of rage as my endgame item with a BW beast.  I haven't mathed out the pain, but the +300 static bonus alongside the 65% boost is basically instant death to anything that doesn't or can't run away.

Isn't that static bonus only to your friends though?

Negative, the activated effect works on you and your allies.  I don't know if that's intended, but that's it's current function.