So, what are Oaks end game weaknesses? Sedna? Regulus? Rook?

Regulus is much like UB, items through gold is what makes them tough. Ever play an ooze build when you are up against competent players? When gold is tough to come by then your ooze build isn't happening.

I'm just a little leary of calling out the nerf bat on demigods. We saw it with Erebus and within a week, threads started about mist being OP as well. Hell regulus constantly has threads made about both snipe and mines being OP. Now UB has threads about its armour, HP, and damage (journal), ooze, and spit. When will it end?

 

Well the Erebus nerf was totally called for and he is still a very strong character to play with. Its not so much a UB problem as it is that he cant just stack so much HP from items because he needs no mana.

The only problem I really have with beast is that HP trumps all. He doesn't have to make build choices like other demiigods. Just get 7k+ health and it's gg. Almost every other Demigod has to balance mana regen, damage, and maybe a little armor depending on the build or who they are forced to counter.

Beast just rolls everyone with cheap HP items.

that is true i was fighting as ub  i bought 

2nd armor

1st and 3rd helms

2nd and 3rd boots

and the health favor item

and then just went off killing  i had 30k  siting there do nothing at the end off the game

lol you can multi-stack the same item - likes 3 helms at once?

 

wtf? 

 

that need to be fixed straight away surely? never mind game balance it's just too lame for words..

 

 

 

 

uh yeah lol you can stack! where have you been?  It's not a bug and it doesn't need to be fixed...  There have been prior threads concerning this issue.

lol - I only bought the game 2 days ago

And of course it needs to be fixed - you have one head so can wear one helm at a time - how difficult is that to understand when you are designing a game?

In what RPG/RTS or MMORPG can a unit/player stack different armor on the same location at the same time? 

I mean that's just an EPIC FAIL in terms of game design 101..

And then the multiple stacking causes  'balance issues' - who would have thought?

 

 

I presume you are saying that someone should just stack crits against UB? As say Reg? If so:

Then this doesn't give you an advantage. If gold is fairly equal, UB can stack just as many crits (or nearly). Plus, with Ooze on higher levels he can slow your Auto attack down, decreasing both your crits and life drain. Double bonus.

Now, I am not saying that UB is unbalanced, I'm not good enough to make calls regarding balance, but I think that (from what others have said) he may be a bit too strong late game with all of his percent based abilities.

And Andy, that is an issue that has already been discussed multiple times. The general consensus is that it is fine. Gameplay>Realism (and can you even have that in a game about Demigods?).

Okay, so here it is:

1) This is a team game. Unless you are playing 1on1, noone cares how an UB eats up any demigod. You just do not fight an UB in meelee alone, unless you have backup on the way and you staying there is part of the plan.

2) HP stacking goes both ways, so if he can get 7k, then you can get that too. Theres no way he can kill you if you have 7k HP and do not take stupid risks. Sure, if he gets his dirty pawn on an ashkandor, slayer's wraps, mage slayer combo, then you are kinda screwed, as he will kill you in like 4 hits if hes lucky with crits. Nonetheless... if you let the game drag out that long, and you do not have similar gear then you did something very-very wrong.

I've seen UBs dominate games, but quite frankly.. i've seen other classes dominate the game even more. Rook, Sedna, Oak spring into mind. Why? Because most games never get to the point where you can afford an ashkandor without giving up on upgrades completely (and as such giving the game away to the other team), and the above mentioned three demigods can become extremely powerful from using just their abilities and do not depend on a 25k gold item build to dominate you.

So yea.. an UB in late game can kick your a** if he is good and you try to fight it 1on1. Does it make the UB overpowered? Hardly.. he is meant to be kickass in meelee, nothing OP there. As for UB winning 2on1. Maybe against noobs, or a really unfortunate combination of demigods. The demigods would need to have both low damage and low health to be a possible target for the UB, otherwise he risks getting owned. Two demigods means twice the abilities you are risking, twice the burst damage you are risking, and quite frankly.. around lvl18, most demigods can easily burst for at lesat 1k HP, or even more. They do that at the start of the fight, keep hitting you for a while, then even if you still have 2-3k hp left, you will have to leave or you risk dying to the second burst when the cooldowns are up.

i only every have trouble with ub is when he is with another demi and he has crit items that is the only time

i usually mop te floor with him and go back to taking there towers down

Yes, it is a team game. This doesnt mean there cant be imbalance though? If its a 2v2 situation, the side with the UB will have the advantage (late game) as he has 7k+ hp and has very high DPS.


I wont blame you for not reading all my posts here - there is quite a lot to read. But I have repeatedly been saying that although any other Demigod can stack up armour items, the UB can do it most effectively because:
A ) He needs no mana items. His ooze/auto attack does very high damage and it costs no mana. The only thing that will be draining a BIT of mana is the spit you do every now and then. Even with that, one half-decent mana item can totally solve this problem.
B ) Other Demigods NEED mana items to be as effective as UB. You cannot have a Torchbearer who stacks only Armour/HP items like the UB because where will he get his DPS from? From spells that cost mana, right? Therefore he needs mana items to be effective, and UB doesnt, meaning UB can easily stack more HP. Not to mention UB has the highest Armour in the game and one of the highest HP.


First of all Im not really saying the UB himself is OP. He isnt, and thats why early-mid game he is fine. Its just the fact that he cant stack so much Armour items and more then any ther Demigod because he doesnt need any mana to deal out very high DPS.

If you're looking purely at DPS then Unclean Beast looks great. If you assess the sum total of Unclean Beast's viability he's a lot more even.

The only mez ability Beast has is a 1 target stun. It's pretty lame as far as mez effects go in this game, but it's better than nothing. It doesn't compare to Torchbearer or Erebus's awesome AoEs, Sedna's Silence, or even Rook's Boulder Roll.

And that's the only thing that UB gets. Everything else is direct damage or avoidance. This is certainly useful and it's all easy to understand. But more versatile DGs like Oak and Sedna as much better teammates if player skills are roughly equal. Even in a 2 on 2 scenario Oak's Penitance makes every contributing attack so much more powerful that it outshines anything in Beast's arsenal.

This game is pretty well balanced right now. I see some issues with multiple Regulus due to Snipe, and all generals have some issues to deal with. But Beast isn't overpowered unless you're such a rookie player that all you understand is killing other demigods. Fortunately I'm sure the devs are going to listen to newbs crying about something like this.

The problem is that HP scales alot better then dps, itemwise. It's just a fact. There are some insane late game dps/crit items, but they are very expensive, and most games wont even see them. However you can nicely scale up using several hp/armor that all are around 1500-2000g, throughout the game. Even DGs with good auto-attacks can't compete with a hp/armor build. Regulus almost can, Oak maybe. But this is an item design problem. To many hp items, too few dps items.

Then there is the skills of different DGs. Some need alot of mana to be effective: TB for example. These will have atleast 2 slots less for health or dps items. You'll still need 1 mana slot as an Beast though. I haven't found a pure Ooze build to be effective. Then there are the builds that can use HoL in battle, these can even run a 0 mana item (maybe UB boots, which has hp/mana) to stack even more health: Oak, Erebus, QoT can do this.

 

No, it's intended mechanics.  Developers has stated several times that they considered alternative naming systems to "armor" items, such as a rune system.  If you read the manual, it states that the arenas are a manifestation of the Ancients.  "Items weapons, armor, and other tangible constructs only exist with the Arena in spiritual form.  Thus the Demigods who recognize this can stack different types of items together that could not be in the mortal world. 

 

I would go on a completely random and terrible rant like you did, but instead I would just suggest browsing the manual next time

I was for the Erebus nerf but this is just ridiculous imo.     If I had to nerf another demigod I would put multiple demigods ahead of UB to be nerfed first. 

 

     the whole purpose of UB is that if you stand toe to toe with him he will be the toughest demigod.  thats all UB has going for him he has no other game winning strategies and its nowhere close to being gamebreaking imo(compared to some other demigod abilities which just win the game).      And the truth is UB isnt even the toughest demigod to fight 1vs1 imo.

Blade of the serpent -- works wonders

UB is in a no win situation. If he goes the spit route, he is classified as OP because of the spit. If he goes with ooze then he is OP because of the HP stacking.

IMO Midgame is it. This is where it is decided. If you beat UB midgame then 7 times out of 10 you'll win. It takes longer for an ooze build to drop structures.

 

One of the main problems with this board (I am to blame as well) is the lack of stating which format (skirmish, custom, or pantheon) we are talking about. My responses have been in regards to Pantheon. In Pantheon, Oak, Sedna, Rook, and Regulus if specc'd correctly can defeat an ooze build.

You are right wholeheartedly when talking about TB. He doesn't scale well at all in skirmish or custom.

 

 

The manual is a joke - one of the least informative I've ever read actually.

 

And I've just looked at it again - nowhere does it say that armor 'stacks' so you can wear multiple pieces at once.

So of course unless you bother to find these forums you'll never find that out. Maybe I'll be able to beat up Oak 1v1 on hard AI with QoT now

Out of interest does the AI stack armor/items like this?

 

And is there a pause button for play vs AI's?

 

Obv. the game is great fun even when you just start out but the manual is terrible and a bad manual just makes the learning curve worse..

there's actually an in game tip on the loading screen that says you can stack multiple items of the same "type". also, you hardly have to read the forums to figure it out. you could also, i dunno, try doing it in game. experimentation is a great way to learn a new game.

 

its intended behavior and is not imbalanced. if they wanted a paper doll system they would have used one. they just give generic slots because they intend for you to stack multiple items that give similar types of stats. its part of the strategy of the game. this is also not at all different from the conventions of many similar games. Warcraft 3 and its mod Defense of the Ancients (which Demigod is inspired by/from) also have a slot based item system instead of a paper doll. 

 

the AI most certainly does stack items, its the only way to explain their stats. you can get those kind of stats yourself. big hint, stack health, gaining survivability is the single most important thing to gain from your items. Nimoth Chest Guard, Banded Armor, and Unbreakable Boots are all great items with low costs. 

 

and yes, there's a pause. you have to enable time-outs (can set to 0, 3, or infinite) in the game options before the map starts but while you're playing just hit f10 (or click on the menu button) and you'll see a button to pause the game right there. 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry to drag this out, but it very clearly states exactly that on page 7, under the heading The Arena.

 

ub isn't hard but i found that qot and sedna and tb are hard to beat  espically with ere

ere doesn't have enough dmg  to take out her shield

his bites dmg should be un nerfed  not the amount it heals but  the dmg should be 900  and hp  should stay the same

 

ub is fine in everyway i dont have problems with him and he anit hard to kill

I actually think UB does get quite ridiculous with crit stacking at end-game, if it gets to that point you are quite likely in for a loss.  UB can play conservatively and essentially just plan a war of attrition until he becomes super-powered. 

crit stacking is stupid there should be a option to take crits out off the game

 

Crit stacking can barely dent people that have enough armor on... as such it isn't stupid (if you prepare for it)

but why does this game even have to have crits  it just makes  characters that have alot more attack speed and dmg per hit  alot stronger

it is like say ill fight that guy who has a sword u have no weapons  and he gets a gun  because it isn't fair enough

Thought I'd chime in here. I'm a ok to good UB player. I've played all the demigods though hard and won if that matters. My ranking online isn't too shabby.

The reason people get pissed off with UB beast is they don't equip properly to counter him. A good UB player will completely tear apart any noob player. But thats true for any Demigod pretty much. As stated above UB is one of the easier gods to learn and maybe thats why we are seeing all the moaning.

Ok so how do you counter UB? First realize that a spit+ooze combo is a one trick pony. A good UB player usually picks ooze OR Spit. Picking both gimps you. UB will either go health or damage... health being the most popular. Here are some strategies based on various DG's which do frustrate the hell out of me as an UB.

1) You see UB, pick a speed build. Speed is your friend. UB has no range attacks (outside of spit.. and spint isn't that far). Just stay the hell away from him early game, decide when to engage mid and late game.

2) Reg: You have the range advantage. Keep your speed up and you can't be killed, all the time doing damage to UB. Stay away from UB beginning and mid game till you have upped auto attack and gone glass cannon with +crit items. A lvl 15+ Reg with crit miltplying items tears UB a new one.

3) Rook. A Garden tower rook wins against UB. Every time. I hate rooks when I play UB. If the rook is smart and goes Tower build, I can't beat him. Again, this is all solo... this is a team game. Any 2 DG's can easily overwealm a equally leveled solo DG every time if played correctly.

4) Oak. Oak is squishy beginning to mid. Late game oak is unstopable. See the pattern here?

5) Sedna. A heal sedna can't kill a Ub, but UB can't kill Sedna either. Hold till a partner comes. Pull the UB back into a tower if you can (and hes that stupid) If sedna has minnions the UB will most likely go after the priests first then the others. Keep mana to summon new priests and heal yourself. Its a complete standoff.

6) Erebus: go + mana items, go mist build. You'll force UB to move away. You might not kill him, but he won't kill you.

When you play against UB your TEAM's job is to stop UB from leveling. Be fast, be smart, don't die. UB is weak against towers and ranged attacks. Don't go toe to toe with him. A good UB won't engage in range of enemy towers. If he does, hes usually in trouble, or hes confident hes got enough health to outlast the damage. If hes confident, pull him into the tower, have a waiting partner pop out of the fog and slaughter him.

In summary UB is a very strong 1vs1 player but he can be countered 1vs1. In a 2vs2 game UB is the weak part of the chain since he doesnt lend alot to a team. The most devistating 2 player combos don't include UB.

Oh and to adress the OP,late game is all about items. TB, Oak, Reg for instance will toast UB at lvl 20. Go heavy burst damage and UB is in trouble late game. UB's ability damage is all done over time. Its easy to beat him wehn you realize all you have to do is engage from afar (or near if shielded with oak) and pile on the burst damage. UB is screwed when hit with burst damage at high level.