Top speed?

Hi all,

 

I've been playing around a bit in single player the last couple days to test speed builds for Sedna and UB (the two DG's with naturally good speed builds). I'm wondering if anyone has some details on speed calculations; I'm noticing some inconsistencies in top speed that I can't explain.

For example, the top speed I've been able to achieve is 14.0, however most of the time it appears to max out at 12.9 and 14.0 is extremely fleeting. I can't understand what makes the difference.

 

For those interested, here are the relevant items for a 14.0 speed build with either Sedna or UB:

first off, max your skills that give speed increases (for Sedna, three points in Inner Grace for +15%, for UB 3 points in Inner Beast).

 

Get these items in this order:

Favor: Swift Anklet: 15% - 450 favor

Boots of Speed: +10% - 1000gp

Wand of Speed: +25% for 8 seconds, 30 second cooldown - 1250gp

Cloak of Elfinkind: +20% and a 15 yard teleport ability - 12000gp

Journeyman Treads: +15% - 6750gp***

All Father's Ring: +15% - 25000gp (you'll pretty much never afford it except in a Filthy Rich, fast gold custom game)

 

With the exception of the all father's ring, these are extremely affordable items. With even just the anklet, basic boots, and wand you'll be outrunning everyone no problem - the other items just push it over the edge to make you absolutely unstoppable. You would think that a build this dependent on speed would sacrifice a lot of other abilities, but test it for yourself in single player and you'll be pretty amazed at how effective this is. Both Sedna and UB lend themselves to quick, in-and-out tactics, and this build maximizes them. For example, at this speed you can run from one end of the Cataract map to the other in about 5 seconds. If you've got a couple flag locks with you then it might as well be game over. On large maps, you'll pretty much be able to grab any flag you like, and your opponents can't keep up with you to stop you. They can only teleport once every 30 or 45 seconds, you don't have that problem.

 

Anyone have thoughts?

 

*** another question - can anyone confirm for sure that journeyman treads will stack with boots of speed? I believe they do, but I'm not 100% sure.

4,118 views 23 replies
Reply #1 Top

They should. Also, Cloak of Elvinkind and Journeyman's treads are not very affordable, and just having hte other three speed items makes you quick, but still slowable, and your favor item keeps you more squishy than others.

Reply #2 Top

12000 isnt affordable... in regular games.

Reply #3 Top

I'd like to call out that this isn't inexpensive.  Journeyman's Treads is one of the most expensive purchases at the item shop and Cloak of Elfinkind is an artifact.  You need to sacrifice a ton of health gear to save up all the gold.

I have a friend who plays this build and he sucks ass until roughly level 15.  At that point, he can choose exactly where he wants to be in a moment's notice.

Not a build I recommend except for the late game jollies.

Reply #4 Top

They stack, but Journeyman Treads give a 5% chance per hit to give you 50% speed. That's why you could get 14.

Reply #5 Top

They all stack, yes. I don't believe there's a way to get a base 14 move speed, but you do get it when the Journeyman Treads Proc or you use Wand of Speed.

However, Single Player isn't nearly as tough as Multiplayer. Not always great to try this online as Journeyman Treads are actually fairly expensive, although it does make it extremely hard to kill you that way.

Edit: Forums ate the replies.

 

:fox:

Reply #6 Top

yeh they stack, and the max is 14. at the end of each game it maxes the stats of the winning team, you can get a good luck at stuff then if youre quick.

Reply #7 Top

Adding up the percentages there (+115%) gives +6.9 speed to a base speed of 6 on Sedna for a total of 12.9.  I'm guessing the proc on Journymen's Tread is what's going on and off, though that should push you over 14.  Maybe 14 is max speed.

Reply #8 Top

they should yes (stack) , tested this quickly. while i think it's very speedy indeed, a real skilled multiplayer game is in order =)

Reply #9 Top

EDIT: Weird.... it acted like there were no posts in the thread, but when I posted all the ones that really were there appeared. 0_o

Reply #10 Top

u will lack in mana/hp when your equipment is based on full speed  :pig:

Reply #11 Top

***edit***

redundant as forum didn't display other posts at first (?? new update??)

Reply #12 Top

test it for yourself in single player and you'll be pretty amazed at how effective this is.
End of quote

single player isnt really a test of anything.

yes the boots stack.

i think anyone with common sense would agree that the cloak and the ring shouldnt really be included because they are so expensive. so a reasonable "speed" strategy you can execute in games would actually be:

Favor: Swift Anklet: 15% - 450 favor

Boots of Speed: +10% - 1000gp

Wand of Speed: +25% for 8 seconds, 30 second cooldown - 1250gp

Journeyman Treads: +15% - 6750gp

for sedna or UB with the passive bonus this gives you a pretty crazy boost to speed.

i dont know how effective this would be, i think you're probably giving up too much.

 

** redundant info, forum ate replies

Reply #13 Top

fire   tb gets a speed boost as well I believe.     

 

 With fire tb though I found out stacking speed buffs is only good at running away.  If you chase after someone you will automatically default to your targets speed(even if he is snared), if you target him.   some weird feature/bug  that has to do with not being able to attack while moving  while in fire mode :x

Reply #14 Top

I'd would only try it with Sedna, since she gets many other passives and she's harder to kill, but UB is squishy and benefits greatly from going health stacking to stay in the fight doing more damage (not that Sedna doesn't benefit from that, mind you, she's THE tank).

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Doo, reply 14
I'd would only try it with Sedna, since she gets many other passives and she's harder to kill, but UB is squishy and benefits greatly from going health stacking to stay in the fight doing more damage (not that Sedna doesn't benefit from that, mind you, she's THE tank).
End of Doo's quote

UB's honestly not bad for tanking, though without heal or passive HP regen he really doesn't have many options in terms of staying alive after multiple encounters.

Reply #16 Top

Top speed?
End of quote

i find getting these items pointless, as slows in the game stack anyway.

Reply #17 Top

I pretty much never go for the full 14.0 in multiplayer, I mainly posted to get a discussion of speed tactics going.

 

In real games, I generally go for Boots of Speed, Wand of Speed, and Amulet of Teleportation and that combo works just fine. Though lately I've been replacing the amulet with blood of the fallen and just buying a teleport scroll for the first moments of the game to get the first flag caps, and I think I like that better.

 

Teleport scroll + flag lock on the +20% experience flag means you get a really powerful first minute or two advantage if you can swing a kill in there (because 2 flags, 1 kill and a creep wave will get you nearly to lvl 4, in addition to depriving your opponents of a flag cap when you move to your second target).

 

In general, wand and boots of speed (w/ speed skills) are enough to catch any player on the run and allow you to finish them off, or to deprive your enemies of ever killing you until they start effectively working together to chain stun. But you can generally figure out how to avoid that if they start doing it.

 

Other items I like for both UB and Sedna are Unbreakable boots, Vlemish Helm, Narnoth's Ring, and Nimoth's Chest Armor until I can start affording artifacts (but usually some citadel upgrades to currency, building heal and dmg, and reins are needed more than artifacts, especially if you're using your speed to effectively hold flags)

Reply #18 Top

Quoting StAcK3D_ActR, reply 16

Top speed?
i find getting these items pointless, as slows in the game stack anyway.
End of StAcK3D_ActR's quote

slows all have very short durations, and a wand of speed used at the right moment will get you well away from anyone who can slow you again.

Reply #19 Top

Well away from anybody? Not really. Regulus's mines stack for a 90% speed decrease, which is more than enough to knock you WAY down. And yeah, they don't last long... but they still last long enough to keep shooting you with maim, which also slows. And even if you get away.... who cares? You just got hit for huge burst damage and dealt no damage because you were running, and with almost 9k dropped on speed items and a speed favor item you probably don't have much more health, so you are out of the lane. Really, the only thing this build is useful for is backdooring, and even then you are so squishy the towers near most portal flags would kill you with a simple TP scroll + stun + spike move combo.

 

Also, Erebus can easily keep you in range again (Bat Swarm, Mass Charm, walk up and Bite), and while it won't deal a ton of damage, you are as squishy as pudding with so many speed items, so... the odds aren't good.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Milskidasith, reply 19
Well away from anybody? Not really. Regulus's mines stack for a 90% speed decrease, which is more than enough to knock you WAY down. And yeah, they don't last long... but they still last long enough to keep shooting you with maim, which also slows. And even if you get away.... who cares? You just got hit for huge burst damage and dealt no damage because you were running, and with almost 9k dropped on speed items and a speed favor item you probably don't have much more health, so you are out of the lane. Really, the only thing this build is useful for is backdooring, and even then you are so squishy the towers near most portal flags would kill you with a simple TP scroll + stun + spike move combo.

 

Also, Erebus can easily keep you in range again (Bat Swarm, Mass Charm, walk up and Bite), and while it won't deal a ton of damage, you are as squishy as pudding with so many speed items, so... the odds aren't good.
End of Milskidasith's quote

 

did you even read my post before that? also, if i'm stupid enough to get hit by 3 regulus mines then i deserve to be caught. Any good player can avoid them with little difficulty. And since it's regulus we're talking about, why wouldn't I just chase and kill him? he's one of the squishiest of all. As for Erebus -- in my opinion he's the weakest 1v1 DG these days, I almost never have trouble killing him. All your criticisms make for great theorycraft, but why would I be putting myself in those situations?

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Tortheldrin, reply 20

Quoting Milskidasith, reply 19Well away from anybody? Not really. Regulus's mines stack for a 90% speed decrease, which is more than enough to knock you WAY down. And yeah, they don't last long... but they still last long enough to keep shooting you with maim, which also slows. And even if you get away.... who cares? You just got hit for huge burst damage and dealt no damage because you were running, and with almost 9k dropped on speed items and a speed favor item you probably don't have much more health, so you are out of the lane. Really, the only thing this build is useful for is backdooring, and even then you are so squishy the towers near most portal flags would kill you with a simple TP scroll + stun + spike move combo.

 

Also, Erebus can easily keep you in range again (Bat Swarm, Mass Charm, walk up and Bite), and while it won't deal a ton of damage, you are as squishy as pudding with so many speed items, so... the odds aren't good.
 

did you even read my post before that? also, if i'm stupid enough to get hit by 3 regulus mines then i deserve to be caught. Any good player can avoid them with little difficulty. And since it's regulus we're talking about, why wouldn't I just chase and kill him? he's one of the squishiest of all. As for Erebus -- in my opinion he's the weakest 1v1 DG these days, I almost never have trouble killing him. All your criticisms make for great theorycraft, but why would I be putting myself in those situations?
End of Tortheldrin's quote


My post is theorycraft, yet yours basically assumes you can ALWAYS avoid everything? Congratulations, I didn't know you had put your skill points into "inflated ego." Ok, let's see.. Regulus could easily hit you with mines. Why? Because they are hidden. He sets some mines before the fight, and since you tested with UB and Sedna... Boom! Mines hit at melee range! It's easy; you don't have to throw mines like grenades. Also, with some HP, Reg really isn't that squishy anymore. I mean, he is still squishy, but not so much that he can't do something like throw mines in front of him and run past them so you can't chase him down. Also, Erebus is pretty strong 1v1, considering he can escape whenever he wants and the fact he gets tons of HP from bite + vampiric aura and has a great stun move. It's really hard to kill him because he can always escape.

Also, slows have short durations? 10 seconds (for most slows) is more than enough to get away and, for most slows, more than enough to reapply them. It's really pretty simple. Plus, with all this speed item stacking, you wouldn't even have the HP to go toe to toe with a geared up Regulus. No matter how squishy somebody is, if they have some simple things like Unbreakable Boots and a Nimroth's Chestplate, they are going to be less squishy than somebody with no HP items at all (and with how much you drop on speed items, Narmoth's ring is not out of the question.)

Reply #22 Top

Quoting ntropy, reply 2
12000 isnt affordable... in regular games.
End of ntropy's quote

In LOPSIDED games..

 

Or in games with small maps.

 

on Large maps it is very much affordable and easy to acheive, come play outside of cataract and crucible its fun!

Reply #23 Top

Regulus's mines stack for a 90% speed decrease
End of quote
No they don't. Only one shrapnel mine debuff applies. It does, however, combo with Mark of the Betrayer and Maim.

 

:fox: