Pantheon: QoT + QoT = Instant Loss?

I've seen QoT players hold their own in 2v1s. Her ability to survive and deny kills to the other team would probably lead to an early advantage in levels and warscore. If both players focus on that advantage instead of "killing doods" (unless it's slaughter), lock flags and generally be a pain in the ass, my guess is that by mid game they'd have a reasonable shot at winning.

If both QoT play as Assassins (emphasizing spell casting over minions) then they could do quite well. Both of them have shields, so they will be difficult to kill, and if they work together they can put out a decent amount of burst damage and debuffs.

Their ability to push is pretty decent as well... So I think they could manage a win. Of course, it is as you say, a long match will likely result in a loss for the QoT, but it's not guaranteed.

If two QoT cast ground spikes, will the armor debuff stack on the target?  That could make for some hefty negative armor possibilities.

I'm fairly sure the armor debuff will stack.  It doesn't matter very much, however, because QoT can't really deal out damage.  At least not enough to make a difference when playing against a good player.  Max burst damage we'd have around midgame would be max 500x2 from ground spikes and 500x2 from spike wave.  Grand total of about 2k.  By midgame, even Reg has more than 2k hp.  Might cause him to back off.  Then he comes back with HP items, and we no longer have a decent burst.  Also, there's 2 of them.

I just don't see that as a good scenerio.

Also, that's exactly what happened in my last QoTx2 match.  We did well early game, then we just stopped being effective and lost.

-- Tukulis

Well, the reason i asked is because if the target's armor got low enough then auto-attacks might shoot through the roof.  I agree that it's a pretty bad situation, but a bit of experimentation might make it feasible.

Instead of trying to burst with double spike spells, burst with double ground spike and then 1 or 2 auto attacks.  Buy the cheap damage gloves.  Considering how well the negative armor from one Queen works on towers, i'd imagine two would be impressive even against players.

Gonna give this a try tonight, may as well check it out.

I'd love to hear from some of the better QoT players on this topic.  Come on, I know you're out there.

-- Tukulis

Hmm i play my QoT alway like this.

Max Shield and Groundspikes, little Spikewave for slow and put the rest in Uproot and Compost.

Favor= Blood of the Fallen

Items= Scaled helm, gaunlets of brutality, Vlemish Faceguard, Battlecrown, Unbreakable Boots and then going for Slayers Wraps.

When you get Slayers Wraps, you will crit for 1200+ dmg on Groundspiked Towers (Only 1 groundspike )... should be with lvl 10

So... 2 QoT should be able to kill a tower in less than 6 seconds ^^ Demigods will also go down fast.

After groundspikes you do around 300 per shot, with 2x groundspikes, i think the damage should be around 400.

so if both QoT first do Spikewave = 1000 dmg then groundspikes = 1300 

If i remeber right, you have 4 shots on armorreduced DGs.... 4 autoattacks of both =3200

Thats 5500 dmg in ~7 sec without any crits with lvl 10^^ Only heavy healtstacking chars should stay alive after this. And you should easily stay alive with Shield (but i don't think they stack) and a very strong earlygame.

Really don't think 2*Qot = Instant loss... Could be a really hard Combo if played right.

After a kill you should have enough time to rape 3 or more towers.

Ok thats massive theorycraft, but looks very heavy to me^^

Edit: if you have to play Fortress mode against 2 of this QoT... better leave instant

Sorry 4 my english

I'm not an expert QoT lpayer by any means, but i found that equipping her with attack speed + crit items can really turn her into a decent DG finisher.

I would say that 2 QoT would have a nice early game advantage, hopefully enough to give you an edge on cash assuming you aren't dying.

Getting slayers wraps and the crit armor is relatively easy - mix that with anklets and some HP and minion gear, you should be in decent shape. 

Once you pump up her attack speed with crits, you can stay in your flower and just jab people from afar.

You are not getting the timing right.  Its auto attack with good weapons, refresh shield when it falls the first time, OPEN, Spike, wave, and auto attack once or twice more.  Done.

EVERY SINGLE DEMIGOD is crippled if you don't buy the correct items.  It sounds an awful lot like you were neglecting to get gloves for your Queens.  And other +weapon damage stuff.

Recently had a double QoTs match on pantheon.  I was in a similiar mindset that it was an auto loss, but it worked out well. I went early spikes and shield, and he went early army and shield.  We had early flag advantage since we outlasted the other two players (Oak & TorchBearer), and we outleveled them.  Then when I got spke wave we started getting some kills with our running speed and double teaming.  We won around level ten when my partner got spikes as well and we took down towers extremely fast.   

But generally I still think its very bad to end up in a double QoT team, if we faced an erebus or tower rook it would have been gg from the beginning.  QoT just doesnt get the same mileage out of damage items that other classes get, furthermore anyone with running speed HoL wins the contest even if we are healing up too the burst isnt there.

stardock should fix the pantheon side bug :o)

You don't actually need to get Demigod kills to win. Go Queen of Shields and you'll be able to survive almost anything the opposing Demigod can throw at you. He'll be running back to his crystal a lot more than you will, giving you a gold/xp and warscore advantage.

The ultimate goal is to kill the citadel, you can do that without killing a single Demigod if you haven't died yourself.

Unless the game mode is Slaughter, you don't ever need to kill a single demigod to win. Kills are fun but they don't necessarily matter. If you can consistantly drive your opponent off, hold more flags, and secure lanes for creep farming you'll win the game.

Kills are vastly overrated.

What's the problem with Tower Rook? Noone will kill the towerfarm faster than 2 QoT. Never had any problems with it. Both QoTs doing Spikewave and Groundspikes is a whole dead towerfarm, a halfdead rook, who gets nearly 500 dmg each autoattack. Less dmg if he has Stacked Armor, but then, his tower farm won't even stand 1 QoT...

And Erebus has not enough burst...

I'm not speaking of free win, but where is the huge problem, making this an autoloss?

I just don't get it^^

i agree with opawan on this one.   a minion qot is the natural counter to a tower rook, behind a tb of course.  what are we missing?

Not all Panthon matches are Conquest. Many tend to be Domination or Fortress and in those modes, QoT's has a good chance to win due to her durability.

I think some guys are thinking too much of the build i posted before... As normal i take this build, sure, but not every game 100% the same. If there are towers, get some idols, let them attack the towers first, laugh about the Rook and crush the Farm^^

Maybe i had not enough matches against really good Rooks but... I can't remember a match, i wasn't happy too be matched up against a tower rook. Bigger problem should be if he only gets towers lvl 1 or 2 and then switching over to something like Slam build.

It's true, I was neglecting gloves and playing more of a straight support role.  It has been easier to kill enemy DGs with gloves... Well at least when they're not a rook. 8)

-- Tukulis

Qotx2 is pretty useless when it comes to domination MINUS crucible. Though she can hold her own, she cannot scare off ight heros light senda pr the rook. If it is crucible then 2 qot have a pretty good chance if they can lead early. Shamblers and spikes can hold the fort for a long time, and with damage items on one of the qot you can slow down demigods and rack up the gold. 

However, late game is always a challange. For 2 qot to win domination on crucible you need to power to giants. Let them take the brunt while you spike it up.

Go shield, shambler, entourage, shield, mulch.

Get mana hats.

If you know how to shield yourself and sacrifice shamblers for hp when the shield goes down and you get hit, you can outlast Sedna if it's a lane with creeps. Just kill her supporting creeps first, so the dark army attacks her as well.

shhh. dont let people know queen is a good demigod. i like my suprises