misfortune you missed the sarcasm

That's how most companies work I think? Valve used the money made from Half Life 1 to make Half Life 2. I'd glad they did.

The netcode is functional at time of writing. I haven't had connection problems for some time now. I have to say I agree with the assertion made by SD that the problems are a small minority and isolated to those with strange setups.

You're saying in your third "*)" that the game has blown its opportunity, and yet you want the company to continue to push it as if everything is peachy? If we take your assumption that Demigod is doomed as fact then there is little point in continuing to support it as rigorously as they are now, adding content and such. If we take your assumption as false then surely by continuing development and possibly through promotional weekends or similar there would be a good chance to sustain a good community.

I'll admit the fanboys are somewhat irritating, things are not as fantastic as they would claim, but I think the picture you're painting is a little too far in the opposite direction. That Frogboy has said player number are stable is encouraging.

Yah you missed frogboys doom and gloom attitude mixed with sarcasm and not so subtle whining.

The net code is not functional.  Connecting is one thing.  Playing anything bigger than a 3vs3 (and often 3vs3 at that) without significant lag (and without a means of testing beforehand whether there would be significant lag if we started the game) is another.  There's still a ways to go.

Give me a f'ing break. Stardock didn't make the net code. They're just the ones fixing it. You're seriously asking why they wouldn't want to keep busting their ass on it if t's already too late? The net code for this game works pretty well. Every time I play now it works fine. Maybe you should check your machine.

 

Why are you bitching to Stardock about it? You want THEM to fix it but you also seem to expect them to somehow, as the publisher, have developed this.

You'd have to ask GPG. "Impulse Reactor" isn't the thing that failed. You'd have to ask GPG why they aren't here. 

LOL. I've read your other posts. Why would anyone want you as a customer?

I hear the wahbulance. They don't have to provide forums. People can contact support.

I hope I never see you in any of the Stardock forums again. I am looking forward to playing Elemental. Yes, I'm an SD fan boy because of their attitude. Maybe you should look at your own.

I feel it's functional. It's definately still the achilles heel of the game though, once in game things are very good. Supcom was never particularly playable with large player numbers for similar reasons iirc, I guess I'm just happy with 3v3 and the odd 4v4?

Sarcasm, even if it was so, didn't translate too well in those posts.  They are too painful subjects to be taken lightly.  Even he was meaning to be sarcarstic, that all too well ilustrates my point about the need to think out those posts better being the only source of offial information.  Especially in the light of a basic problem not being removed almost 2 months after release.

Even in customs games people have troubles connecting.  Just observe the connection info (or I'm sure you've experienced it yourself - not being able to connect to someone when joining a game).  Luckily for custom games this bug is not game breaking (though there is still tons of work to be done in many areas to assure a smooth gaming experience).  But this basic bug is what seems to be the problem all along.  Not being able to fix that basic functionality for so long gives me, and I'm sure many others, very little confidence in the long term future of the game.

Bottom line, yeah I'd love to be a supporter and I beleive me - I can be a very vocal one.  But get the game working at least first.

At the end of the day, people don't care - nor should they - about why they have a given problem with something. 

My objection comes when people can't treat other human beings with an ounce of decency. 

Now, right now, I have to decide where to assign my resources.  Normally, the publisher does not get involved in the development of a game.  We didn't write any code for Sins of a Solar Empire.  But with Demigod, we're in this position where we're trying our best to add features to a game that we didn't write in order to satisfy people but also with the hopes that it will allow the community to grow which in turn will increase sales. This isn't a hobby after all, it's a product.

Demigod, on release, is the game that the developer, Gas Powered Games, presumably felt was ready.  We, the publisher, believed it ready for release.

Now, people want all these other features.  Well, I can ask some features to be added by GPG.  But there is a finite budget to do that. Anything beyond that budget has to be handled by us directly.

But there are economic realitities involved with that.  People make this false assumption that companies want customers at any cost. That's not the case.  Stardock is best known for developing "niche" strategy games like Galactic Civilizations and publishing "niche" RTS's like Sins of a Solar Empire.  This is not a coincidence. Our goal isn't to have the largest possible customer base. Our goal is to have the kind of customer base that is compatible with our principles while doing so profitably.

I just shake my head when I see someone say that we "have" to do X, Y, Z or they won't buy future products from us.  No, we don't "have" to. Because the size of the customer base that agrees with our principles which I think are very ethical and transparent is more than enough to sustain our continued success.

One of our principles is to not care whose "fault" it is that something doesn't work right but rather for us to roll up our sleaves and fix it. 

 

It's not a bug. It's called the Internet.

You will never be able to have a game where everyone online can connect to everyone else.

It's like the people who complain about in-game lag.  It's the Internet. It's not a bug, it's physics. If you want an idealized multiplayer experience you need to either play with friends who have connections and PCs that are well within the minimum requirements or on a LAN.

In ANY game, if you play with strangers on the Internet you will have problems quite occasionally. This is nothing new and goes all the way back to the first online games.

Impulse reactor is responsible for handing out sockets to the game client, as was posted by Frogboy.  Socket handing is the thing that failed as the database response grew to more than a minute.  I don't think there is such a thing as a player connection database in the game, is there?  Get over your fanboyism and learn to read.


When I bought the game from Stardock I entered a implied seller/buyer contract with them.  That contract implies responsibility on their part.  When you go and buy a home appliance only to return home and find it lacks advertised functionality and on top is not working at all, do you go to the factory or the shop that splld it you.


Again it was the server side that failed and the chosen provider of the libraries.  I'm not saying GPG is clear of blame, I know how badly they can program, but both my above points are valid.  Additionaly, as a publisher, it was Stardocks responsibility to assure proper testing (aka QA) procedures and not release a game until fully functional.  Moreover, it's Stardocks responsibility to assure in their contracts proper obligations for the developer and providers of libraries, which will ensure their prompt and full support in cases like this.  Finally, GPG may not be allowed to post here by policies as they handed over the support to Stardock.  See - there are many ways to spin this...


Anyone, my 40 bucks are good everywhere.

No, not all people can contact support.  I'm an international digital download customer.  The forum is my only source of support.

Yes I'm vocal.  But I have not flamed or attacked anyone.  I try to stick to the available information and clearly mark where the post is my opinion and not a fact.  You having a problem with me discussing openly the problems is sad.

This is a lie, by the way. Stardock's support isn't limited to the US. They may direct you to Atari if you bought it retail (and depending on the issue), but not digital.

 

Pantheon and Skirmish are running on an entirely different internet then the one I normally use.

 

 

Then why when I click cancel and connect again it goes on without a problem. Same game, same players... I'm not talking and never have about the latency in the games.  I'm talking about the players connecting to one another and you already posted that you're aware of the bug when one cant seem to connect, so let's not waste time...

I'm 36 and have played online game's since TA.  Additionaly I come from IT and networking background.  I very well know the limitations of the internet and it's problems.

Meanwhile, since the first online games I (and most of us) went from dial-up modems and 200+ms to the first next router in line, to 10Mbit/756Kbit aDSL line with 150ms lag from EU to the US (and around 100ms to all Europe).  The Internet itself and the networking technologies also made a large progress.  First person shooters are playable with 100ms latency.  Async RTS games should comfortably allow more than 250ms. We used to play Quake on ISDN modem connections and it worked perfectly well.  I will not even go into how well starcraft worked even with hundreds of controllable units and 4v4 games.  Unfortunately no technology can replace well written code...

That is an inaccurate description.

Impulse Reactor acts as the interface to the NAT server.  Arguing that Impulse Reactor is problematic would be like blaming your web browser is problematic when you get a 404.

And you had the option to return the game if it did not function for you. The seller of the product is not obligated to put its store clerks to work making the product better for you.

I don't think users should care whose fault it is. But if you are going to choose to assign blame as you are, you could make that same argument about Atari or Snowball too.  As far as we all knew, the game worked fine prior to release.

There is nothing stopping GPG from posting here other than they are very busy working on the game.

If you are truly so dissatisfied, why not return the game and move on? 

I suspect it will shrink.  The modes that are friendly to people just joining (skirmish and patheon) are just broken; Dota lovers that didn't join when it was released would have done so with the 50% coupon.  Whatever Dota version comes out on sc2 will crush it.  I'm not trying to make a point with this next statement, but Warcraft III was more heavily updated than this game and it wasn't released as broken.

 

Most likely because he is a fan of the mechanics and of the actual gameplay itself, while being frustrated by nearly everything else about the game, like many players.

If the store has also accepted to provide the service for the product, then yes - they do have to fix it. Or replace it for a functional one.  So yes, please send me a functional copy of Demigod

P.S. I'm talking about the basic functionality in all my posts.  The additional features that I find important I will humbly ask you to provide if possible

I went back and reread my posts.  I may be hard at stating my opinion but I still stand by my assertion that I did not flame or attack anyone.  I was very careful in chosing my wording.  I only went into discussing the possible causes of failure without enough information, as most responders seems bent on singling out GPG as the sole source.

Bottom line is, you're absolutely right that it doesn't matter as long as it is fixed...

TYVM

Im sorry to say this, but that is so true.

I dont care about "who is responsible for this & that" But I know that DG is the ONLY MP-game, making problems for me. fine, but other games work for 95% of their customers, DG works for 50% (maybe) you can call it "Internet" or "Physics", but the truth is, DG makes more problems than other games also using "Internet" and "Physics" Some important guys have made the wrong decision during developement, maybe P2P was the wrong system for a game focused on 6-10 player matches

Stardock, since it seems that you are reading this thread.

To give a quick background, I worked for Sony as QA I, QA II for Playstation II, PSP release games and PS III release games for about three years.  I may not be a gaming expert but I understand how the industry works from the QA / development perspective.

I believe you should continue the development of your product.  One of the reasons why a lot of people come on the forum to complain is because they actually like the game.  If they did not, they would just unistall it and go their merry way.  

This game has amazing potential, the RTS and RPG elements are an awesome combination.  This game was reccomended to me by a friend.  I in turn reccomended it to two more friends.  But guess what I told my friends?  I said "this game is awesome, its where Diablo meets Warcraft but if you go online be patient with it".  

I understand that network coding is an ugly beast mainly because its a lot harder to test and even harder to verify if problems get fixed or not, packets can be dropped from servers, routers, cable modems, bad wireless connections etc.  Having said that I hosted a game two days ago for a 2v2 and I was the one that got dropped.  I have also been in a 2v1 Pantheon game twice.  Could it be that I had a lag spike?  Maybe in the 2v1 game one of the players left before the load?  For sure.

However if everyone is experiencing it, either the internet is unreliable for every single player that plays this game or there is an issue with the game's networking code.  I am sure your team stress tested the servers, perhaps more tests must be done when it comes to game creation and team matching.

Will adding more demigods, clans, replays be good?  Of course, it will keep your current players still interested and perhaps old players to rejoin.  Will it be an uphill battle?  Probably.

In the current state of the gaming industry there is a huge push to develop games and push them out the door and bugs can always be fixed later.  This is not just the PC gaming industry, but the gaming industry as a whole, I have experienced this both as a QA and a player.  I also understand the complexities of deadlines, available funds, hard deadlines for final version for factory production etc.

Having said that I rather wait for a game two extra months and have it play flawlessly, than buy it on time and have to deal with issues.  I understand that no matter what a game will have flaws, with the increasing complexity of games, the large playerbase things are bound to break.

Perhaps I am being unfair since I am seeing this from the eyes of an ex-QA and not from the product development side.  In the end what has happened has happened.  Now you can focus on the present and the future.  Realize that the forums are not an accurate snapshot of the community as a whole.  If you want to see examples of that just head to the World of Warcraft forums...according to the forums the game is the most horrible game in the planet, yet they have 11 million people playing it.

Obviously I am unaware of the internal politics of the company, how much budget you have available etc, but for what its worth as an experienced gamer and a person that used to work in the industry I definitely see potential in this game.  Never underestimate how powerful word of mouth actually is in the gaming circles.

I think Stardock got screwed over by Gas Powered Games.  I use to respect the name of GPG and use it as a "reference" when buying new games, this was after playing classics like original dungeon siege.  However, from what I can tell GPG has chosen to go down the road where they sell out the name for quick profits.  Basically, they take a game concept and get it to the point where it is barely functional, hype it up a bit and ship.  Then get as many sales in as possible before people catch on.

It seems like this is what GPG has done with Demigod, but they've also stuck Stardock with the support etc, and also incorporated the good name of Stardock into this mess (guilty by association).

It's really obvious that the game was shipped incomplete as well, or that they had someone with no marketing skills calling the shots.

The major mistakes of no campaign combined with no anti piracy built into the game at all mindboggles me. 

The general business model is to ship a game with a solid campaign to get people hooked, and have a solid multiplayer mode which upholds the copyright to boost sales.  ie) original starcraft

Unfortunately, what we got was the core of a game with the absolute minumum play options.

Basically, there is no reason whatsoever for anyone to buy this game new.  You can borrow it from a friend and play the "campaign mode" and apparently the multiplayer mode for free (18,000 legit vs 120,000 hacked copies online first week).

Since there is no reason for anyone to actually buy the game, the budget for new content isn't gonna be there.  And as of now the game is being sold at retailers for less than the download value ($40.00 Canadian vs $40 US) basically it's working it's way into the bargin bin.

If you actually want to try and stop this downward spiral.

A) fix multiplayer so it is stable and requires a CD key to use

add a decent campaign mode and demo to get new players into the game

C) tweek out the game balance, ie) items, skills, AI values

This will be an uphill battle as the first impression opportunity is already gone and now the game must prove itself worthy.

 

p.s.

"If you are truly so dissatisfied, why not return the game and move on?"

Due to the fact that the game is a copywrited piece of material we can only exchange it for the same product.  The only way to get a refund is via a class action lawsuit which I cannot see happening either as the game does function, it's just a skeleton of what it should have been.  Basically, we're all stuck with it.

No. Email stardock if you can't play.

 

Just be aware that they will check your logged in time and if you've put in 100 hours you're unlikely to get a refund because "it doesn't work"

I purchased an actual box copy of the game, the retail outlet I purchased the game from will not take it back.

It would be equivalent to buying a movie dvd, going home watching the movie then trying to return it because "it sucks".

You Sir, made your self look pretty darn stupid here. Do some research next time will you. It is posted all over these forums that refunds are totally possible. Go get your refund, and take a hike.... oh and take your class action lawsuit talk with you.