HOL Nerf Pro/Con

from Demigod Forums

I can't help but feel like the upcoming hol nerf is going to drasticly change the pace of demigods as it is a widely used almost necessary item for all classes.

Increasing the price and doubling the cooldown to 1 min seem like choices which are going to massivly slow the pace of the game, put more importance on towers, double the strength of heals and shields and decrease the power of dots etc here is why.

 

- More trips to the crystal in the mid and late game, with the cooldown doubled sitting there waiting for you hol to come around will be less viable then just making the trip to the stone,

- Towers will be a larger obsticle for some classes who can't auto attack at range with less avalibale mana/hp due to cd increase, more cautious play when taking down towers since risk will be increased if you're 45 seconds away your hol being etc etc

-Decrease in hit and run dynamics since jumping in and out of battle with be less viable with longer cd

-Decrease in effectiveness of dots, ice spec, etc anything that prevents usage of hol due to longer cd

-People will be much more cautious when they use their hol since the cd will be longer and won't want to risk intreuption of heal of any kind whereas now if a random mob etc hits me not as much of a big deal since cd comes around quickly

- Much more emphsis on healing and shields which reduce the need for trips to crystal

 

My impression of this nerf is gameplay will be dramatically slowed and certain classes are going to become much strong, with dg already being a very cautious / slow paced game I can't help but feel this will slow things to a crawl as you'll see most good teams with a manditory sedna and stacking +hp and regen items to compensate,

 

feel free to leave your thoughts

4,894 views 27 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

I actually have been looking for ways to avoid the use of this item, and there are several items in the Favor category that more than adequately replace it for you...

 

For Regulus, Torch, UB ( haven't played rook) the 1st assasin dagger is more than enough

For QoT and Torch I have also used the Cloak of Plentifull mana... the benefit is that this Cloak will give 400% mana recovery to your buddies too...

I also see a lot of people not mentioning the Magus rod in their usage... I use this all the time.. its epic for saving mana and give 50% regen boost to boot.

 

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

well, that's the problem when there is a bit over the top items and some people abuse them. they don't know how to play without it. I rarely use it and seems to do fine.

obviously you could be very aggressive against towers, retreat and fully heal in a sec. I don't think that was a good thing for the game, as is the shield-hol combo, because that was promoting a poor strategic play. Now you will have to be more cautious , and be aware of others things around, like mana/heal management or possible ganking.

The hol nerf is a good thing for me. Some others easy mods items should be changed as well, such as Heavens wrath, which can either be useless in a small map (unless you want to steal the XP from your teamate, which would be stupid) or retardedly powerful with multiple lane map.

 

here is my 0.02 cents

Object Desktop - Get all of our enhancement utilities in one suite
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Haven't used it but a couple times, times when the game is already won and I'm just messing around.

My playstyle won't change.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

well, that's the problem when there is a bit over the top items and some people abuse them. they don't know how to play without it. I rarely use it and seems to do fine.

obviously you could be very aggressive against towers, retreat and fully heal in a sec. I don't think that was a good thing for the game, as is the shield-hol combo, because that was promoting a poor strategic play. Now you will have to be more cautious , and be aware of others things around, like mana/heal management or possible ganking.

The hol nerf is a good thing for me. Some others easy mods items should be changed as well, such as Heavens wrath, which can either be useless in a small map (unless you want to steal the XP from your teamate, which would be stupid) or retardedly powerful with multiple lane map.



here is my 0.02 cents
End of quote

CONCUR!  Nerf FTW.

Your health and mana should, in general, be a non-renewable resource.  It encourages deliberate and strategic play.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting lukkas_ROCKUS, reply 4

well, that's the problem when there is a bit over the top items and some people abuse them. they don't know how to play without it. I rarely use it and seems to do fine.

obviously you could be very aggressive against towers, retreat and fully heal in a sec. I don't think that was a good thing for the game, as is the shield-hol combo, because that was promoting a poor strategic play. Now you will have to be more cautious , and be aware of others things around, like mana/heal management or possible ganking.

The hol nerf is a good thing for me. Some others easy mods items should be changed as well, such as Heavens wrath, which can either be useless in a small map (unless you want to steal the XP from your teamate, which would be stupid) or retardedly powerful with multiple lane map.



here is my 0.02 cents
CONCUR!  Nerf FTW.

Your health and mana should, in general, be a non-renewable resource.  It encourages deliberate and strategic play.
End of lukkas_ROCKUS's quote

 

Seeing as these items are avaliable to everyone I fail to see the "easy mode" I see "stupid mode" for not using them, as with any game there are going to become certain items/strats that become staples.

Shield Hol is only a problem for one class and could be patched as to not work while in oak bubble.

I fail to see how limiting Hol encourages stratagy, it will certainly encourge more trips to the crystal which on alot of maps is a quite a trek which means you'll be spending 20-30 seconds daydreaming while your walk all the way home

It will also make people lean on sedna to buy pure mana items and be a heal dispenser for long into the mid/late game which will make her a requirement for every team reducing flexibility and choice.

It also makes classes that arn't exceptional at killer towers even worse which is going to extend game times even further as getting hol later/less effective version of it, towers become even more of a barrier to a few classes.

 

If running in and out of battle is bad but running back and forth the crystal is good (sloppy quote) then I hope you like slow games my friend

 

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

I fail to see how limiting Hol encourages stratagy, it will certainly encourge more trips to the crystal which on alot of maps is a quite a trek which means you'll be spending 20-30 seconds daydreaming while your walk all the way home
End of quote

When a resource is scarce, people learn to use it more creatively.  I keep picturing stereotyped Africans making radios out of spare parts as the most colorful example.

With HoL, health and mana are nearly inexhaustible (provided you aren't rooted in place by a stun-lock).  As a consequence, DGs can attack towers without much thought or preparation.  They can jump into a fight without much thought, being careful just to jump out again around 50% health.

If every fight costs you health that won't come back any time soon, you'll be more careful.  Maybe you'll team up more.  Maybe people will actually start using short-range teleports.  I don't know.

I DO know that, currently, late game is just a spam-fest.  All the juicy strategic and tactical decisions have already been made.  HoL is a key contributor to the spamfest.

All this being said, Frogboy has already committed to an HoL nerf so the whole conversation is a little moot.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

I dont use it, its a crutch.

it will certainly encourge more trips to the crystal which on alot of maps is a quite a trek which means you'll be spending 20-30 seconds daydreaming while your walk all the way home
End of quote

Teleport Scrolls.

It also makes classes that arn't exceptional at killer towers even worse which is going to extend game times even further as getting hol later/less effective version of it, towers become even more of a barrier to a few classes.
End of quote

Team Play.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Since the item would be way less worthwhile it would become near useless. Like the warpstone.

If te nerf isnt hard enough it will stay op. So I would like to see it taken out totally. Or make it into an consumable slot item with a little hp and mana reg 10-20 both with a decreased price accordingly.

 

 

Imho this item spoils the whole game. got 2 games whcih lasted 1 hour because the teams were quite even and everyone used HoL and it was just a run and hide >,>

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Imho this item spoils the whole game. got 2 games whcih lasted 1 hour because the teams were quite even and everyone used HoL and it was just a run and hide >,>
End of quote

CONCUR!

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

I can't help but feel like the upcoming hol nerf is going to drasticly change the pace of demigods as it is a widely used almost necessary item for all classes.

Increasing the price and doubling the cooldown to 1 min seem like choices which are going to massivly slow the pace of the game, put more importance on towers, double the strength of heals and shields and decrease the power of dots etc here is why.

 

- More trips to the crystal in the mid and late game, with the cooldown doubled sitting there waiting for you hol to come around will be less viable then just making the trip to the stone,

- Towers will be a larger obsticle for some classes who can't auto attack at range with less avalibale mana/hp due to cd increase, more cautious play when taking down towers since risk will be increased if you're 45 seconds away your hol being etc etc

-Decrease in hit and run dynamics since jumping in and out of battle with be less viable with longer cd

-Decrease in effectiveness of dots, ice spec, etc anything that prevents usage of hol due to longer cd

-People will be much more cautious when they use their hol since the cd will be longer and won't want to risk intreuption of heal of any kind whereas now if a random mob etc hits me not as much of a big deal since cd comes around quickly

- Much more emphsis on healing and shields which reduce the need for trips to crystal

 

My impression of this nerf is gameplay will be dramatically slowed and certain classes are going to become much strong, with dg already being a very cautious / slow paced game I can't help but feel this will slow things to a crawl as you'll see most good teams with a manditory sedna and stacking +hp and regen items to compensate,

 

feel free to leave your thoughts
End of quote

 

I used to like Heart of Life when I was newer to the game. At this point I rarely buy it. By the time I have 4000+ gold I want either multiple lesser items, Narmoth's Ring, or citadel upgrades. I prefer minor health potions for just 275 gold and I use them all game long. It would take more than 15 of those before it cost me a Heart of Life, and I dont think I've ever used that many.

The best thing about this balancefix is that it helps offet the exploit of Shield+HoL that only applies to one or two demigods.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

-Decrease in hit and run dynamics since jumping in and out of battle with be less viable with longer cd
End of quote

Um, wouldn't the nerf do the opposite?  Everytime you do a hit and run and actually don't get hit you have caused damage that matters.  If you hit and run now for a small amount of damage, they'll just heal it.

The nerf makes harrassment a bigger part of the game.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

It kinda seems like this nerf is going to hurt me a lot.  The DGs that I have problems with (Sedna, Oak, sometimes QoT) are defensive DGs who don't really need it.  It seems like this nerf is going to hurt the squishies immensely.  It's also going to heal more, meaning HP stacking/naturally high HP DGs (which are what I currently have problems with...) will be able to heal more of their gigantic pool, whereas it won't help squishies at all, considering it already maxes me out.

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top

I just look forward to the nerf (move to artifact shop and hopefully a price hike) so that all the people who depend on this item suddenly suck even more.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

Currently this item is terribly overpowered. It makes certain demigods virtually unkillable. It really sucks when you blow all your mana and cooldowns on someone and get them to 10% hp, they run and come back 10 secs later with full health.

I like the nerf. People will be more dependent on healing and mana potions now, which is nice since those are interruptable.

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Can you point me to the source on this nerf, for some reason I can't find it.

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Sean0883, reply 15
Can you point me to the source on this nerf, for some reason I can't find it.
End of Sean0883's quote

Here you go:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355935

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Enraged_Camel, reply 14

I like the nerf. People will be more dependent on healing and mana potions now, which is nice since those are interruptable.
End of Enraged_Camel's quote

And, more importantly, one time use.

Reply #18 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting JagerJack, reply 16

Quoting Sean0883, reply 15Can you point me to the source on this nerf, for some reason I can't find it.
Here you go:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/355935
End of JagerJack's quote

 

grassy ass

Reply #19 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Sean0883, reply 18
grassy ass
End of Sean0883's quote

Um.......what?

Reply #20 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting JagerJack, reply 19



Quoting Sean0883,
reply 18
grassy ass


Um.......what?
End of JagerJack's quote

He means 'Gracias'. =D

Reply #21 from Demigod Forums Top

It always makes me laugh when anything that is highly effective in a game is considered "noobish" like when people would use the battle rifle/plasma pistol combo in halo 2 or anyone who is really good at spammming fireballs in Street Fighter

Basically any place style someone doesn't like or can't effectivly immitate becomes the noobish way to play, like oh no I got sniped by reg because I stayed out too long and forgot to buy potions, that guy is such a noob! etc etc

I would argue potions are more "noobish" because you can be completly dominating in a fight, use your stun and one second (assuming you're a class that has one and is spec'd for it) later  the guy will sit there, cast his potion and have full life, now unless you have a pot also you're fragged. At least one has to leave combat to use HOL

Reply #22 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Zida, reply 20
He means 'Gracias'. =D
End of Zida's quote

Oh good. I thought he said something....entirely different. De nada then.

As for the nerf, I think most people don't have a problem with the HoL itself but the HoL+Shield combo. I think making it so that being hit by an attack interrupts HoL instead of damage would be a simple change that would make most people happy.

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top
  • Heart of life has been moved to the artifact shop and its cooldown timer has been double. The effect has been increased. 

For reference.

 

So, it got stronger and moved to artifact shop, but we don't know if that increases the cost, or how much stronger it is.  By stronger I mean Effect. I think this is the right decision, since it may make the item even better, but puts it at a point in the game where it is not as disruptive. I am hoping it is somewhere around the cost of a MageSlayer, and maybe 25% stronger.  At that point there are many more comparable item/itemcombos that can work against it, and it's landslide effect is a little more realistic.

When people start having 8k in disposable income, it's about time for people to start finishing the game.

 

Reply #24 from Demigod Forums Top

Frogboy, can we get the stats on the new HoL?

Potency?  Cost?

Reply #25 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Zida, reply 12
It kinda seems like this nerf is going to hurt me a lot.  The DGs that I have problems with (Sedna, Oak, sometimes QoT) are defensive DGs who don't really need it.  It seems like this nerf is going to hurt the squishies immensely.  It's also going to heal more, meaning HP stacking/naturally high HP DGs (which are what I currently have problems with...) will be able to heal more of their gigantic pool, whereas it won't help squishies at all, considering it already maxes me out.
End of Zida's quote

 

Actually it hurts many of these classes. I love playing Oak with a heart. Even without shield, it lets him be a nuker. Having a heart lets me stack sedna with all HP making her an insane tank. She needs no other source of regen when heart is giving her 4500 mana every 25s.

 

Now Oak won't be a penetance spamming general unless he buys helms. If he buys helms, he wont have 7k hp. Same with sedna. People will actually have to think about gear instead of health or snare stacking and then spamming every special move they have. I forsee helmets making a comeback if HoL is nerfed enough.