Complaining about doubles is scrubby

In a perfect world all competitive games would have blind select by default but it seems most simply havn't caught on. Who you choose for your team is really no business of your oppenent until the match begins, unless sitting in the lobby constantly cycling through demigods to prevent counter classing sounds like a good time to you.

With that being said I often see a lot of people complaining about choosing "doubles" or having 2 of the same demigod.

Why people feel it's okey to synergize with demigods like oak and sedna or any other strong combo is okey but choosing two of the same god is not.

Combos have themes, survivability, burst, harssament, push, aoe, etc etc

If you're going to stack your team to take advantage of this I should be able to stack mine to counter this (not that i should be able to see who you're choosing anyway)


For example if there's a QOT on their team you can bet they're going to be shield spamming, so two TB's for burst is a solid counter but oh no that's forbidden! because they're the same god? WTF.

There are only 8 charcters atm people, to use themed combos they're going to be doubles sometimes.

I know we all have nightmares of getting triple sniped by regulus trios but stragies that multiply a characters strengths also multiply it's weaknesses,

I know people hate to adapt or deviate from "The Plan" in their builds but when I hear talk like this it just reminds me of people who complain about fireball spamming in Street Fighter or how throws are cheap because people can't sit in their comfy down block all day anymore

Thoughts?

 

 

4,637 views 33 replies
Reply #1 Top

Your use of double blind is wrong; double blind means two layers of blindness. The game couldn't be double blind unless you didn't know your own demigod or your opponenet's demigod (if you didn't know your opponent's and he/she didn't know yours, but you both knew which DG you picked, you would both be single blind; as it is now, there is no blindness at all).

Reply #2 Top

double blind is logically equivalent to All Random. i.e., none of the players know what any of the other players is playing including themselves.

 

anyway, yeah, i agree with the OP. there's no issue with more than one of the same DG on a side. who cares. only eight in the game and there's enough internal variety for each DG that they might have very different playstyles anyway. 

 

in addition to that, i don't believe for a minute that stacking the same DG is actually a better strategy than a diverse and synergistic team. Oak + Sedna >>>> 2 Regulus, just as one example i'm sure alot of people are thinking of. 

Reply #3 Top

I also find that most people that call no doubles are complaining exceessively. However, there are certain aspects of doubles that make it impossible to go with your team's demigod setup and hope to win. For this reason, I think a lot of people are aggrivated by these setups, but a lot of it has to do with a really bad encounter that they once had dominating their perception on how the match will go.

For example, I've encountered several double Reg opponents while playing as Reg myself. Usually, I don't have a problem with them, but one time I did. I faced two Regs who were quite obviously communicating very effectively and had me singled out as a target. They had this combo where they would both snipe me and then one would hit me with the 250 damage favor item. Eventually, due to proper use of tracking bug, I would then receive up to one or two follow up snipes. If I had ANY health loss before this barrage happened, I had to begin teleporting immediately, or I would die (which I did, a lot). In hindsight, I should have stopped carrying either TP's or locks and kept health potions with me, but at the time, I was baffled. People just need to think differently than they usually do and not let themselves get so caught up on their normal routine while playing that they can't adapt on their feet.

Reply #4 Top

Your use of double blind is wrong; double blind means two layers of blindness. The game couldn't be double blind unless you didn't know your own demigod or your opponenet's demigod
End of quote

You are correct sir, that was a typo or more of a left over word I retyped this a few times and somehow i forgot to delete the word double, thx for pointing that out

Reply #5 Top

Quoting PhoenixBomb, reply 3
I also find that most people that call no doubles are complaining exceessively. However, there are certain aspects of doubles that make it impossible to go with your team's demigod setup and hope to win. For this reason, I think a lot of people are aggrivated by these setups, but a lot of it has to do with a really bad encounter that they once had dominating their perception on how the match will go.

For example, I've encountered several double Reg opponents while playing as Reg myself. Usually, I don't have a problem with them, but one time I did. I faced two Regs who were quite obviously communicating very effectively and had me singled out as a target. They had this combo where they would both snipe me and then one would hit me with the 250 damage favor item. Eventually, due to proper use of tracking bug, I would then receive up to one or two follow up snipes. If I had ANY health loss before this barrage happened, I had to begin teleporting immediately, or I would die (which I did, a lot). In hindsight, I should have stopped carrying either TP's or locks and kept health potions with me, but at the time, I was baffled. People just need to think differently than they usually do and not let themselves get so caught up on their normal routine while playing that they can't adapt on their feet.
End of PhoenixBomb's quote

The infamous double reg combo is annoying, and when played well can be very good at harrassment, simply because a health stacked reg can hold a lane, while not well, more than well enough to get a decent bit of damage on an enemy DG. Then it's snipe snipe snipe snipe snipe until the DG dies or retreats. It has obvious drawbacks (you still get pushed out earlier) but it means that if you have a big enough team to hold off the enemies in other lanes, you can easily use two regs to force any DG to retreat or die.

Another combo I find is very good is UB + UB. Most all of his debuffs stack, he has a great way to chainstun, and with double ooze, getting hit for 150 four times a second + having -80% attack speed (if it stacks, -40% if it doesn't) while having -20% (10% if it doesn't stack) move speed and being chainstunned about every 10 seconds (from the end of one chain to the start of another) simply dominates.

But a lot of 2v2 teams can be just as effective as doubles; it is just that with cookie cutter builds being used, doubles are more likely to randomly hit a strategy that works well while a cookie cutter soul power rook and shy regulus aren't going to be as effective.

Reply #6 Top

I personally don't care for double or not, I just think no double is more fun. Having diversity and fighting a different opponent in every different part of the map is more interesting than fighting the same demigod over and over again with the same tactic for the next 10~40 minutes.

In a premade vs premade, I would prefer anything goes though. Due to premade having more interesting strategy, and whatever they need to execute with, shouldn't be limited.

Reply #7 Top

I personally don't care for double or not, I just think no double is more fun. Having diversity and fighting a different opponent in every different part of the map is more interesting than fighting the same demigod over and over again
End of quote

This.

Reply #8 Top

I have no opinion one way or the other re: doubles, but if someone is already playing UB on my team, I'll probably go as Sedna instead of UB because others tend to be annoyed by doubles.

Reply #9 Top

Had a fun match a few days ago. One team of 5 UBs vs. one team of 4 Erebus' and a TB. The TB on our team ended up RQing because he kinda sucked, but we beat the crap out of the UB team so hard. They didn't stand a chance.

Reply #10 Top

Why would you care if someone doubles? It limits the strategy of the opposing team so that it can be easily countered. Except double oak, that pwns face :D

Reply #11 Top

Only one I've ever seen that annoyed me, was 4 Regulus + 1 Sedna. I walk up to the first flag, and see sedna there, and groan a little that this is going to be a long hard fight.

 

Then I take 2000 damage from 4 ~max range snipes snipe and die. It was the most 'woa' moment I've ever had. 15 Seconds later, and The same thing happens to a teammate on the left side, except there was some heaven's wraths mixed in. Man was THAT a one sided game.

Reply #12 Top

I think quite simply you should just play Pantheon where you can't see your opponent's DGs. Pantheon may be completely worthless in virtually every respect, but it's not in that one.

Reply #13 Top

I personally don't care for double or not, I just think no double is more fun. Having diversity and fighting a different opponent in every different part of the map is more interesting than fighting the same demigod over and over again
End of quote

bingo.

no-doubles is also more thematic. i.e. tournament mode has no doubles.

I always strive to avoid doubles if possible.

Only one I've ever seen that annoyed me, was 4 Regulus + 1 Sedna. I walk up to the first flag, and see sedna there, and groan a little that this is going to be a long hard fight.

 

End of quote

also a good point. some demigods have better gank abilities than others, and these scale disproportionately when more demigods are in play.  4 Reguluses with snipe and heavens wrath is a little extreme even in those terms..!

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Fhoeng, reply 6
I personally don't care for double or not, I just think no double is more fun. Having diversity and fighting a different opponent in every different part of the map is more interesting than fighting the same demigod over and over again with the same tactic for the next 10~40 minutes.

End of Fhoeng's quote

Sure, but its hard in this game when there is only 8 Demigods and everyone has their favorite. Especially when you get into 4v4+ matches. Plus I don't believe Double anything is OP in this game. It's usually people working together and communicating well to pull off those OP moments.

I faced two Regs who were quite obviously communicating very effectively and had me singled out as a target.
End of quote

Exactly. It's not really the fact that you fought double Reg...it was because they werre communicating effectively. Plus, I think the Snipe ability is just one of the easiest to "gank" with so a little communication can make mulitple Regs with that seem OP. Heck, what if 2 Boulder Roll Rooks were working together the same way?! Double Boulder Roll -> Double Hammer Slam?!?! 4000dmg....Ouch...

 

 

Reply #15 Top

Sometimes if you get more than 2 of a DG something lame is happening.  I once saw a team in a 5v5 game who tried to ALL switch to Reg after my team had chacked in and quick start the game before we reacted.  Luckily my cursor was near the ready box when this went down.  But 2 of a DG shouldnt be that much of a problem.  This is especially true in 5v5 games where picking 5 unique DGs out of only 8 options is a pain sometimes.

Reply #16 Top

I believe some doubles are just very hard to beat. Let's say 3 rooks. Tower rooks are very hard to harass early-mid game, they suck late game, but still. If each takes a flag you will be forced to team attack a single one to break the towers, while the other 2 hold the other lines. What would work as a counter is triple regulus, they can focus snipe even while attacking other lines, but other then that... I dont know what could harass early tower rooks.

Some DG ability stacking is a problem in my opinion. Mostly these are the skills, where it is said, that the best counter is to avoid these DGs early on. And trust me you cant avoid tower rooks for long or they'll take you base apart in no time.

Reply #17 Top

I believe you should be able to pick your own DG in normal online games (everybody prefers his own DG) and in Pantheon (5 Regulus' is a viable team strategy, if they like to play that).

But I prefer no doubles in my own matches. It's one of the reasons I prefer single player skirmish, as I can remove the doubles myself. It's just not that much fun for me. Also, you tend to see a lot of the same DG if everyone can chose for themselves. I prefer variation.

Reply #18 Top

"Lame" strategies in which people invent various ways to gank a single hero with many just become easier as games get larger. All the other team is doing is stacking strengths and weaknesses, so while they do have a very powerful tactic, if you can survive it, they can't do anything else.

Still, when players are allowed unlimited freedom they inevitably find tactics that the game just wasn't meant to handle. For instance, the maximum HP of many players just cannot stand up to 5 snipes at low levels. But how to fix it? Nerf snipe? That just makes single Regulus' worse. Increase maximum HP across the board? That weakens all burst damage in the game. Create arbitrary rules for how many Regulus can be in a game? Meh, thats arbitrary rules are sign of poor design in general. 

Reply #19 Top

I think the key word will be diminishing returns. For instance, no more than 3 snipes within 10 seconds will be able to do damage. It's not a fix it all change, but might help to soften these kinds of DG teams, without changing several other parts of the game to do so. But I don't think it's a long term solution, then again finding one might be a near impossible thing in games that work like this.

Reply #20 Top

Then they just snipe every 3.4 seconds. When you create rules like that, people just play to the edge of the rules.

Also, lots of Erebii is nuts because of the fun involved in chain-AoE stunning. Also, does vampiric aura stack? If it does, that would be insane as well.

Reply #21 Top

What's the tracking bug?

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Milskidasith, reply 20
Then they just snipe every 3.4 seconds. When you create rules like that, people just play to the edge of the rules.

Also, lots of Erebii is nuts because of the fun involved in chain-AoE stunning. Also, does vampiric aura stack? If it does, that would be insane as well.
End of Milskidasith's quote

Imagine how many nightcrawlers there'd be if they all went minion builds. :')

Reply #23 Top

Quoting Milskidasith, reply 20
Then they just snipe every 3.4 seconds. When you create rules like that, people just play to the edge of the rules.
End of Milskidasith's quote

True, but there's a lot a team of DGs can do in those seconds that they have to wait to fire a next snipe. The thing that is killing everyone is that they can single out one person and burst damage him to death so quick that not even having 100 healers present will stop that. But if you force them to take longer doing that you could heal, use a potion, or just kill one of their Regulus players, evening the odds a bit.

Reply #24 Top

Ok if you have 2 EBs on a team they can keep you stun locked till you are dead.

if you have 2 rags on a team they can snipe you at when you are down on health.

2 tbs 1 goes fire and the other ice

I mean the game is not fun when they stack a DG IMO. If they put deminishing returns on abilities or immunities to abilities then it would be ok to stack dgs.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting IllegalDustbin, reply 22

Imagine how many nightcrawlers there'd be if they all went minion builds.
End of IllegalDustbin's quote

Sadly, I'm 90% certain only one Nightcrawler per kill can spawn, so this wouldn't work out so hot in practicality.  You'd have nightcrawler saturation hehe.