Zechnophobe

Join Date 04/2009

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"NO!" - What is the best Sedna Denial Build?

Something I've been working on recently, but am not yet truly sure about, is the best Control build for Sedna.

Thoughts thus far:

Even level 1 pounce is still an interrupt, and fairly mana efficient little bit of damage.

Silence rank 2 is significantly better than rank 1.

Counter healing is good (see associated thread)

Healing 3 isn't much worse than healing 4.

So, here's the build I'm considering right now:

Buy Monks.

Healing 1
Healing Wind 1
Pounce 1
Healing 2
Wind 2
Magnificence Presence 1 or Silence 1
Healing 3
Counter Healing or Magnificent Presence 1 or Inner Grace 1
Silence 1 or Magnificent Presence 1 or Inner Grace 1
Silence 2

That's a little complicated looking, the point being that sometimes you don't need silence early on, sometimes you don't need counter healing at all, and this gives you a little wiggle room. In general though, the idea is that we want to conform our controlling capabilities to what the enemy is arraying against us. Silence 2 at level 10 is a very easy skill pickup, and much better than healing 4.

I haven't played this at all, so we are just theory crafting. I'm considering the value of simply having a point in pounce and ONLY using it to interrupt teleports and healing pots. Silence mainlines as the 'blanket' negation effect, and pounce is for spot cancellation. We get the full team friendly healing suite, minus of course healing 4 (though we can pick that up at level 14 for Life's Child at 15/16).

Note sure which favor item to go wtih. it is mana heavy so maybe cloak of the night, but it also will have a huge target on its forhead, so perhaps blood of the fallen (as usual) is the way to go.

itemization is probably slightly more focused on mana than normal builds, since as usual, Sedna can change mana for health quite nicely.

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As someone who allies with Sedna but doesn't play as her -

- Very nice in a team setting where the DPS is coming from elsewhere. I'd think you'd need at least two allies who could bring the heavy pain to make up in damage for one pure control Sedna.

- You don't need Cloak, imo, since you'd be wasting 50% of its potential (this Sedna won't be doing a lot of last hitting, right?)

- Since you are getting Wind 2 at level 5 you should invest in High Priests (unless they fixed that LUA typo in 1.1, L3 idol priests give you *30%* heals) or Bishops - Wind gives good synergy with one of the best items in the game - don't waste it..

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I agree with Kestrel, this looks really strong but only for a 3v3 or bigger, where you have lots of damage on your other DGs. Even then its losing some of its early-mid dueling power, which makes me sad.

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As a Sedna player I would have to say that Heal 4 is always worth taking, you can tag creeps with it really easily and that really helps earn a lot of gold.

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Since we are looking at experimental Sedna builds, what do you think of this?

Cooldown Reduction Tank

1 Heal
2 Pounce
3 Healing Wind I
4 Heal II
5 Pounce II
6 Healing Wind II
7 Pounce III
8 Magnificent Presence or Counter Healing (if enemy priests present, bump rest of skills back)
9 Heal III
10 Pounce IV
11 Magnificent Presence II
12 Inner Grace I
13 Inner Grace II
14 Inner Grace III

Favor - Diamond Pendant

Equipment
1 Monks, Totem of Revelation
2 Vlemish Faceguard
3 Unbreakable Boots
4 High Priests
5 Nimoth Chest Armor
6 Plenor Battlecrown
7 Narmoth's Ring

Flavor: this build is getting most of its health regen from stupidly OP High Priests + Healing Wind + high HP per second and wants some allied Bishops to stack off of. Heal is really only going to be used to supplement the huge regen or to support an ally.

The build tops out at about 4k hp (Narmoth's Ring is an indulgence), but remains difficult to kill before dying. If losing health too quickly it can break off at half health, pull its opponents into tower or ally range and then turn for the kill.

The main conceit of the build is cooldown reduction. With Diamond Pendant and Magnificent Presence II you can pounce or heal every 5.6 seconds - add a celerity flag in there and cooldown comes down to just over 4 seconds. The mana cost becomes huge and probably unsustainable for anything more than one or two battles before hitting base, but in those battles you have really high burst damage/interrupt and healing on top of your already substantial regen and middling DPS.

Potential Weaknesses -

Midgame Morale Oak, Erebus, or QoT, a few UBs, maybe a kitted AA Reg - the counterbuilds all rely on incremental levelling, minions, or items which would in the long run overwhelm Sedna's regen and heals while lasting through her nukes.

Alternatively - reinforcement upgrades with significant damage and hp upgrades to take advantage of Sedna's lack of AoE

The problem, of course, is that you will need gold, flag control, and levels, none of which a good Sedna will let you have.

In most cases Sedna will dominate early and finish the game long before these counters can get rolling, and if she wants to make certain she does she will play small maps and long gank lanes with an allied support General

Thoughts, comments?

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Well lets see, other than the Diamond Pendent the build looks pretty standard, so you're basically trading 800 HP + 5 HPS for 10% Cooldown. The HP loss is doubly-bad since your Priests will heal for less. You will be much weaker as compared to a normal Sedna in the early mid. Later on your cooldown advantage will let you Pounce slightly more often, but its not worth it imo.

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The Diamond Pendent can be nice, but I only use it as a substitute if I chose a build that does not involve Magnificent Presence. Blood of the Fallen (800 +5/sec HP) helps a lot in initially holding lanes, since most buy rank 1 priests at the start and do not have enough gold to buy any +HP items. I typically wait for 200g to buy a mana pot, and between the high HP, the priests, and extra mana, I can hold an initial lane for quite a while before I decide to go back and shop. The difference between 1600 and 2400 HP early game is quite big, and I would only consider getting the Pendent if you know you are playing solely backup and wanted to skip M.P. for other skills.

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Pendand might give your support build a huge boost on maps where you can control cooldown flag (Exile, for example).

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Retroromanic - that was my thought as well. Stacking CD reduction works really well on Renewal Reg or UB, why not Sedna? If I were playing this build I'd make sure a celerity flag existed and that I had it locked throughout the game.

I hear you guys on Blood of Fallen, but we all know that HP>X already, no? Just trying to think outside the box I'm not sure that a CD Sedna can beat a HP Sedna in a duel before level 5 or so, but after that don't you think being able to apply damage and healing almost twice as fast would have an effect?

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Twice as fast? Where are you getting that? More like... 110% as fast.

CD doesn't help at all early game, you don't have enough mana to spam the spells on recharge. Thus you are significantly weaker than a Sedna that took BotF early game, so beating one is not a matter of "not sure" its a "definitely not." Late game being able to Pounce 10% faster makes a difference, but you probably arrived at the late game weaker / later than you would have by going with BotF. Also once there you'll obviously have 800 less HP and recieve less benifit from Priests. Its a tradeoff that I, personally, would never take.

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I think the problem is that if you stack item to get as much hitpoints as possible you priest get synergy bonus cause their ability is based on your total hitpoints. And because priest heal nearly as fast as a non cooltime enhanced Sedna if your keeping their heal power up then your basically casting the heal spell at double speed which is faster then stacking cool down reduction and requires no flags. And while CD does provide synergy with pounce it's more effective for a mana stand point to simply heal ones self and autoattack the guy out and use Pounce as a killing blow or to block something.

Whenever I want to have a Sedna for denial I usually just make one that can just walk away from whatever they droped on her and heal up faster then if I used HOL. My problem with Ke5trel build is that it's really mana intensive and if your allies have geared them selves up for high hitpoint builds (Which most people do anyways) then you priest can heal almost as much as Sedna can and they do it for free letting you save your heals for those OH NOES situtation.

So a build would be.

Favor Item: Swift Anklet +15% Movement Speed, If you like that kind of thing... with that item it's possible to catch up with people using Wand of Speed, but Blood of the Fallen if your Pro as it boost your hit points, your priests heal strength and you health regeneration.

1. Heal

2. Healing Wind I

3. Pounce

4. Inner Grace

5. Healing Wind 2

6. Heal

7. Pounce

8. Inner Grace 2

9. Heal

10, Pounce if your feeling violent, Inner Grace if you want to be even stronger, Magnificent Presence if you want to be a team player

Items:

1.) Monks

2.) Unbreakable Boots

3.) Hauberk of Life

4.) High Priest or Bishops depending if you want to exploit the bug

5.) Vlemish Faceguard

6.) Boots of Speed

7.) Nimoth Chest Armor

8.) Narmoth's Ring

That gives you

Hit points base 2750 + Blood of Fallen (800) + 2450 (Items) for a total of 6000 hitpoints of which the priest will heal you 1800 every 8 second if you are willing to exploit the bug. Further more you will regenerate 84 hit points a second. At this point it's difficult for Single Demigod to take you down and if they don't keep putting the pressure on you then 16 second later your at 100% hitpoints again. The key is to not heal people if you can avoid it and and let your passive abilities do the work so you can save you mana for when you need it.

Also the kind of Sedna is great for Flag control as she is nearly always at full strength (As well as anyone that happen to be standing near you) The only problem is she's not a demigod killer as there is no real burst damage (Your saving Pounce for a killing blow or when you really need it,) just anti burst damage abilites but you can follow people farther then most other demigods into the towers.

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Twice as fast? Where are you getting that? More like... 110% as fast.

With Diamond Pendant and Magnificent Presence II you can pounce or heal every 5.6 seconds - add a celerity flag in there and cooldown comes down to just over 4 seconds.

mrappard - what's interesting is that the some of the best Sednas playing right now have around 4k health at level 10 - so not stacking quite as much as your example, but the synergy Sedna gets from high health makes good sense..

This is an off-the-wall build, like Zechnophobe's OP - it's not something you are going to whip out in every situation, but it entertained me putting it together ^^

(Sorry if I jacked the thread, btw, it just seemed like a good place to put an outside-the-box build)

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With Diamond Pendant and Magnificent Presence II you can pounce or heal every 5.6 seconds - add a celerity flag in there and cooldown comes down to just over 4 seconds.

Yes, but a normal Sedna can get all those things too. Compared to a normal Sedna, the Diamond Pendant build only goes 10% faster.

what's interesting is that the some of the best Sednas playing right now have around 4k health at level 10 - so not stacking quite as much as your example, but the synergy Sedna gets from high health makes good sense.

The way I see it, Sedna needs to balance spell spamming with health stacking. Rappard's build is very close to the one I use, though I have several tweaks that I think make it better (in my opinion, of course).

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Well if we are going the keep the concept of stacking CD items then definitely buy more trinkets instead of continual items.

Sludge Slinger is cheap and reduce damage by 30 percent from auto attacks.

Wand of Speed instead of Boots of Speed would also be useful as their only slightly more expensive and if you have high cool down reduction you can probably reach a higher then 10% average.

Magnus Rod (Which will solve alot of your mana problems) would be a good replace for the crown as it's less expensive and is not more spamable.

But Warlord Punisher is by far the best item to get. At 300 damage it's a good damage damage source at range which Senda lacks but also the Mana loss if spammed (Which you are able to do with that build) really would help you dominate.

Warpstone is a great counter for alot of attacks and if combined with Wand Of Speed makes you impossible to kill with that kind of build.

If you really want to keep the build then idea of NO then Orb of Defiance can be used as a counter for alot of abilities if used at the right time. You can counter alot of TB abilities if you use it at just the right time. All these items are mana free and would increase survivability.

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Yes, but a normal Sedna can get all those things too. Compared to a normal Sedna, the Diamond Pendant build only goes 10% faster.

Really? 10% can make all the difference, in the games I play, but ok

Let's remove the pendant from the equation, since it seems to be giving you difficulty. We can boil it down to this instead:

Magnificent Presence synergizes very well with Celerity Flag and also with Renewal Assassins.

Does that suit you better?

mrappard - very good call on the trinkets

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