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Hypothesis: Sedna is the absolute best demigod in 1v1

Hypothesis: Sedna is the absolute best demigod in 1v1

Ever since playing against Antiock, currently the top ranking player in Demigod, in a pre-1.1 Crucible match a couple of weeks ago, I've been rather curious about his habit of hosting 1v1 matches as Sedna, either on Crucible or Prison.  After putting a little bit of thought into it, as well as hosting a couple matches of similar conditions out, myself, I've come up with a theory that Antiock does this because he's guaranteed to win since Sedna is THE best demigod for 1v1 matches, hence why he's Rank 1 on the Pantheon stats.

In a 1v1 match, assuming either Crucible or Prison, one player will win if he manages to kill his opposition a lot early on, therefore getting a lot of gold to increase his advantage even more.  If both sides are competent, though, then kills will be very minimal, if there's any at all, and other methods would have to be considered to gain the advantage.  These methods are generally as follows:

  • Stay on the frontline as long as possible with enough health for you to be effective.
  • Force your opponent to be away from the frontline as much as possible, whether that's making him retreat to the protection of his towers or all the way back to his Citadel.  Bonus if he spends gold on teleport scrolls or potions.
  • Mantain control of the majority (not necessarily all) of neutral flags with greatest priority on the gold/artifact flag.
  • Be able to attack towers while maintaining health when the opposition is absent.

In other words, the best way to win 1v1 is not necessarily to get kills, but to simply outtank your opponent, and we all know that noone can tank better than Sedna.  As her, you're obviously able to maintain enough health to be effective on the frontline through Heal and Priest minions.  This makes returning to the Citadel only a matter of when mana is slow, which is easily remedied by a few mana-boosting items.  It also means that when it comes to exchanging blows with your opponent, you'll generally outlast him, forcing him to run away.  While actually killing him would be nice, the more important aspect of his retreat is that you have free rain over the neutral zone, gaining control of the flags (especially the gold/artifact one), and being able to hit his towers while he's absent.  There's also a point to make that Sedna is an effective tower killer, as well, even in the early game, tanking the tower with Heal and also killing it quickly with Pounce.  A lot of damage can be done to structures when the opponent is just making a round trip to the Citadel, especially on Crucible.

If you're able to have constant control over the gold/artifact flag, then you'll be accumulating a bigger and bigger gold advantage as time goes on, an especially good aspect since 1v1s tend to be long.  Antiock knows this for sure, as I saw him actually pass by the cooldown flag under my control just to cap the gold flag and agressively keeps me away from it as much as possible.  The gold advantage is even greater if the opponent spends money on teleport scrolls and potions since such consumables aren't worth it in the long run.  As for you (Sedna), the cash should first be spent perfecting your frontline lasting power.  When I played Antiock in pre-1.1, he started with Monks and notably got the Heart of Life very early for its mana regen, but since he's still apparently winning all of his 1v1s to this day, I imagine that he has found alternative early items to achieve the same goal of always having mana to use Heal (and Pounce).  Getting Currency I is also important, as the match will most certainly last long enough to give back its cost several times over.  You can linger in the neutral area for as long as your gold income is greater than his with Currency I and the gold flag.  In fact, you might as well do so until you hit War Rank 8 and can instantly upgrade all the way up to Catapults with all the gold massed while prolonging the match, with Giants following as soon as possible.  Then you can really overwhelm your opponent as you push in to finally bring down his Citadel.  At this point, the gold advantage will be so great that it doesn't even matter if your opponent significantly outlevels you while holding back the creep waves and manages to kill you a couple of times.  He's inevitably screwed.

So what do you guys have to say about this theory of mine.  Do you agree that Sedna is the #1 1v1 demigod with these strategies in mind, or do you have other ideas?  Bonus if I can hear from Antiock, himself, or his close premade buddy Foreshadowed.

12,796 views 64 replies
Reply #26 Top
I would believe you if not for the mountain of first-hand experience I have defeating UBs 1v1 early game, and the complete lopsidedness of all of those encounters. Just for your benefit, my friend and I just labbed it out. 1v1, Ooze UB with Banded + Scaled + BotF vs Sedna with Monk Idols + BotF + Heal. We met in the center of prison and literally wailed on eachother until someone dropped. Sedna won with 715 HP remaining. I had to cast heal twice. I'll point out that a flat brawl is the most favorable type of battle UB can hope for, because cat and mouse of any kind would only give the monks more time to heal. Thus in a Cataract lane UB would fare even worse because Sedna could wear him down gradually and let her monks do most of the heavy lifting.
End of quote
Thanks. I was going to do a test myself. That's interesting to know.
Reply #27 Top

Have to agree with what's being said here.

 

Sedna is the only DG I see in the other team and go "Oh ****, I hope this guy's a noob" Then go Ooze spec (I mainly play UB) and hope for the best.

Fact is a good sedna player just can't be beat on even terms if he/she know's what they're doing. Not to mention Pounce is doing about as much damage as TB's fireball maxed out only with added stun, way too powerfull an offensive move on such a defense/heal oriented DG in my opinion.

Reply #28 Top

i just don't see the appeal of a 1on1 game. 

 

i mean, i agree that in 1on1 confrontations in normal games Sedna is great, maybe the best. but thats not really what this thread was about. 

 

who chooses to play Demigod 1on1? i don't get it. i'd never choose to play the game that way. 

Reply #29 Top

Erebus minion build just absolutely destroys sedna in every single step of the match, sedna has not aoe so the big swarm of erebus just rape her.

No, sedna is not the best 1v1, absolutely not, i have no problem beating the others DGs thats true but a good minion erebus is just impossible to beat with her.

Reply #30 Top

An aggressive sedna is one of the strongest builds in the game 1v1. She has weak AoE, but it doesn't come into play if you know your limits and push them to achieve goals. 

A good example is her vs a tower rook, she will be at a disadvantage if she attacks every tower but can instead go straight for the rook and force him to retreat leaving the towers to crumble over time.


The problem with sedna is that she becomes much weaker as the number of players and minions increase. It is easier to stunlock and burst her down when large groups are fighting, and she can't inflict the amount of damage to demigods working together as say a regulus laying down mines. In 1v1 the slows of other classes don't even matter if you stand there and make them retreat, but when theres the possibility of being ambushed by their teammates they become much more effectice.

I doubt demigod was balanced with 1v1 in mind (though its still highly dependant on skill even if you choose the "wrong" class). But what we should be looking for "ideal balance" is 3v3 at the highest skill level on a relatively balance map like cataract. Statistics that you need to look at for this would most likely come from a gaming league.

Reply #31 Top
I just won a game of me using UB and teammate Rook vs Sedna + QoT on Prison. That was quite a tough battle, given my teammate Rook was a noob. Luckily managed to score kill vs QoT. My team's Rook died 10 times, while I manage to kill QoT 7 times.

When I fight Sedna I'd have to retreat first, but depleting Sedna of mana. Luckily ooze UB gave me staying power against Sedna + QoT 2v1. Although I would not be able to kill anyone, I could delay them capturing flag until Rook respawn. I have enough time to retreat, heal at crystal and comeback with Rook. Managed to win in this what I think a very bad combination of DG. This was mainly due to flag warscore in our favour, and me outlevelling them.

Sedna although good at 1v1 and good support at 2v2, her attack power is not as good as one might thought and so I as UB would kill her QoT faster than she would kill my rook. We exchanged kill like this.

In 2v2 It's always wise to gank on the other DG first and that'd always force sedna to heal her teammate, and even then might even be not enough.

However, in few 3v3 games I played, I found Sedna to be much more powerful in 3v3 due to reduce chance of any 1 teammate being ganked. With 3 DG staying together, it's a formidable ganker.
Reply #32 Top

When i see some videogame where the devs say "this is not balanced 1v1 is balanced on groups" i just can think "this game is made of fail" if u have a class better that the others u can do a team made of this class or mostly this class and own most games just by this.

First of all i dont think that demigod is not balanced 1v1, it mostly is but as all the multiplayer games have some points to fix.

This game is mostly about rock-paper-scissors thats ok but i think that every class would win any other class if specced for this, of couse for one class will be harder to win X class than others but at least make it possible, this is not happening in demigod in some cases.

U can try to do hundreds of builds with sedna but is just impossible to win a good minion Erebus, is just a base problem, u cant stand a big swarm of mobs, no way, u have not any hability to deal with swarms no matter what u do, u can buy parasite egg for some chance but u need to buy a bunch of mana items as a must if u want to heal and pounce for a while so when u have parasite egg is mid-late game and is not really that usefull u cant stand the full DPS of a Erebus swarm to do 2 pounces and kill the swarm, u will be overwhelmed quick and outdpsed and even if u stand to do the 2 punces no matters becouse the parasite egg is out and the second pounce is not going to hit all the swarm.

 

Reply #33 Top

An Erebus swarm on crucible though takes a while to get to, it is a very expensive build.

 

It is fine saying that Sedna will be no match for it. However, early game Erebus in minion build is weak, I play both characters a lot and I would say that Sedna is a lot stronger than Erebus for at least the first five levels, then possibly up to 10 it breaks even.

 

In terms of the OP point, I would agree, that Sedna is possibly the strongest 1v1, especially in the first 10 levels. All her assassin type skills are immediately useful and have a big effect. Only later on do they start to lose their effectiveness.

 

Although, I think that this game should not be balanced on 1v1, it needs to be balanced on team play. Also, this game is designed as a team game.

Reply #34 Top

On any map but prison I can handle a sedna 1v1 as rook.  Bear in mind the only 1v1 experience I have is defending a lane from her, not any true 1v1 experience, but typically there's just no real way for her to pressure me.

A good example is her vs a tower rook, she will be at a disadvantage if she attacks every tower but can instead go straight for the rook and force him to retreat leaving the towers to crumble over time.
End of quote
I agree this is the best strat, but when I play rook (and again this falls apart on Prison) I just never let her get near me.  I move at 90% of her speed early on so by the time she's gotten a pounce off on me she will have been hit by two of my towers 3 times or more a piece and she's going to take comparable damage as she retreats back to the flag we're fighting for, and I'll follow her right back out there.  I plant my towers so that she has to deal retreat out of flag control range to avoid them.

Generally she won't even get a hit on me before disengaging.  That being said on Exile when I have to guard an objective that doesn't have static towers defending me I defintely will take damage and it gets pretty dicey.  

Regardless though on the majority of maps I either feel like I have an advantage or a pretty fair shot with either rook or erebus.

Reply #35 Top

Quoting leinadon, reply 7
When i see some videogame where the devs say "this is not balanced 1v1 is balanced on groups" i just can think "this game is made of fail" if u have a class better that the others u can do a team made of this class or mostly this class and own most games just by this.
End of leinadon's quote

This is just not true. In many games that are balanced for group play, a team of several independently strong characters is outmatched by a team of characters that are dependent on, but synergistic with, their teammates. 

Reply #36 Top

When i see some videogame where the devs say "this is not balanced 1v1 is balanced on groups" i just can think "this game is made of fail" if u have a class better that the others u can do a team made of this class or mostly this class and own most games just by this.
End of quote

 

Lets make a simple example.

4 classes, W, X, Y and Z.

W is better than X and Y.

Z is better than W.

X and Y are equal but better than Z.

 

They are not balanced against each other, however, there is always a counter. So if your team goes mostly W, then the opposition will go mostly Z.

I imagine most good players, will wait to see what their opponent team and team members pick in a multiplayer match, to see what char they want to pick. Or will change their char after picking if they feel it doesn't complement the team.

 

Reply #37 Top

I played against both Antiock and Foreshadowed in 2v2, first loss me and my partner had since May 4th or something. We were Oak and Erebus, they were Sedna and QoT, it was hard to do anything really and when one team gets kills early on, its very hard to come back too, I can see why so many other people rage quit against us when we get 3-4 kills on them.

They are both great players!

That aside, Foreshadowed I'd look forward to playing against you and your mates sometime again, good times.

Reply #38 Top

Just played against good Sedna with my UB. Tried different builds. No way. There's no possible UB build to win against good Sedna. She pounce me with 3k dmg in 5 seconds + here minions and self-healing. Non of 3 UB's build (spit , spit\ooze, ooze) can beat Sedna. Maximum what i can do is to dmg her till half of her 5.5k HP. Even with help of my towers she cant be beaten. My thought - here pounce should be nerfed.

Reply #39 Top

Quoting Auro5on1c, reply 13
Just played against good Sedna with my UB. Tried different builds. No way. There's no possible UB build to win against good Sedna. She pounce me with 3k dmg in 5 seconds + here minions and self-healing. Non of 3 UB's build (spit , spit\ooze, ooze) can beat Sedna. Maximum what i can do is to dmg her till half of her 5.5k HP. Even with help of my towers she cant be beaten. My thought - here pounce should be nerfed.
End of Auro5on1c's quote

failsauce. You've posted the same incorrect assumptions in four different threads in the last 30 minutes. Sedna is not OP, not even close.

Reply #40 Top

(spit , spit\ooze, ooze)
End of quote

no foul grasp :O

 

Reply #41 Top

Quoting Shadow, reply 14

Quoting Auro5on1c, reply 13Just played against good Sedna with my UB. Tried different builds. No way. There's no possible UB build to win against good Sedna. She pounce me with 3k dmg in 5 seconds + here minions and self-healing. Non of 3 UB's build (spit , spit\ooze, ooze) can beat Sedna. Maximum what i can do is to dmg her till half of her 5.5k HP. Even with help of my towers she cant be beaten. My thought - here pounce should be nerfed.

failsauce. You've posted the same incorrect assumptions in four different threads in the last 30 minutes. Sedna is not OP, not even close.
End of Shadow's quote

Cant believe :)

Reply #42 Top

Quoting StAcK3D_ActR, reply 15

(spit , spit\ooze, ooze)
no foul grasp

 
End of StAcK3D_ActR's quote

foul grasp in all tactics with 5-th level. Just cant interrupt her healing with it. Cant catch this moment.

Reply #43 Top

Just cant interrupt her healing with it.
End of quote

why not? she pauses to heal when shes running away.

Reply #44 Top

Quoting StAcK3D_ActR, reply 18

Just cant interrupt her healing with it.
why not? she pauses to heal when shes running away.
End of StAcK3D_ActR's quote

But when she is in battle. How to catch this moment ?

Reply #45 Top

Just played against good Sedna with my UB. Tried different builds. No way. There's no possible UB build to win against good Sedna. She pounce me with 3k dmg in 5 seconds + here minions and self-healing. Non of 3 UB's build (spit , spit\ooze, ooze) can beat Sedna. Maximum what i can do is to dmg her till half of her 5.5k HP. Even with help of my towers she cant be beaten. My thought - here pounce should be nerfed
End of quote

I don't think so. If you look at his game history Antiock has lost a couple 1v1s to UBs, and he is statistically a very good Sedna, so its clearly possible. The way I would do it is to play flag tag and/or hug tower in the eary game, later on you can try to fight her but only in the open field, and preferably right after you shop so you have a good chance of item advantage. If you can drag the game out and not fall too far behind, you can win late game since your damage will handily outrace her heal. 

Sedna is not OP, not even close
End of quote

I don't think shes quite OP either, but not even close? I'd disagree there. Built correctly shes easily one of the best in the game, and there are at most 3-4 builds that I would rate as "on her level," and none that are clearly superior. 

Reply #47 Top

Well i just had my first ever 1v1 and i was sedna against erebus on prison and i just have to say in no way can i see sedna beating a competant erebus. He literally had nightwalkers soloing my towers whilst he was chipping away at me and taking flags.

Was on the backfoot the entire game, ended up reaching lvl 20, little good it did me as he had gold advantage the entire game being able to creep and cap flags whilst his nightwalkers just roamed about soloing towers in my base.

So i would have to say erebus is easily the best 1v1 demigod on prison, tho am sure oak can do similar but oak minions dont get this insane regen that the nightwalkers seem to have, took forever to kill them.

Reply #48 Top

Seriously guys....

 

Minion builds rape her. she has no AOE other than her yeti with maxxed. Try eb with minion builds. You may weak for first four levels but at level 5 things getting different.

Reply #49 Top

As for me , LE - first place , Sedna - Second , UB - Third

Reply #50 Top

@Kreusa: was he using the Horn of Battle favor item perhaps?