SoA 2 0.3e.102
Sins Forums
did some funny testing with a rl buddy tonight.. kinda scary
we had peace time for about 2h so everyone had full upgraded research/ fleet
i even got the kinetic intensifier (+12% dmg)
i got 2 nebula 2 galaxy 14 souvereign rest akira(about 32) and 1 intrepid
he got 16 negh'var rest vorcha
fight took place on a cleared pirate base on wich i had a full upgraded starbase and 35 phaser arrays
_
outcome : federation casualties: EVERYTHING oh and i even send some rebuild akiras in ~about 8
oh yeah klingon "casualties" 6 negh'var , and about 15 vorcha dead on klingon side
Yeah.... Klinks rule!!!! hehehe
Just thought I'd repost this since I didn't get any feedback, and I'm curious to see what people think about it.
Also, I'd totally be ready for a game later, as long as we can all settle on a time.
I agree about the Defiant
If anything, it should be considered a "heavy cruiser"
Offset it's power and speed with a high supply, longer build time, highest and most expensive research tier.
Assuming the Defiant was a quick fix for the borg problem, then I think it should be expensive to research and build
the basic compass directions as you call it an easy way to work out your fire arcs (If you are thinking in terms of 2D, 2D battles like Vanilla SoASE). However SoA 2 is more 3D so you need to think in 3D.
each fire arc is + and - 90 degrees from the direction the null arrow point is facing (in terms of both 2D and 3D). However you can of course have your Null Arrow points facing in any direction you wish it is fully 3d Have them Forward but angle them up by 45 degrees for the top of the ship and Forward and angle them down by 90 degrees etc etc if you want it is for you to decide untill you think its right mystic 
try to imagine half a sphere around the null point and that gives you your weapon arc that is what i do in XSI when working out the arcs for ships and stations. (It got very god dam complicated on the borg starbase trying to make it so they dont shoot through the station, yet still give it a full 360 degree (3D) fire arc :P)
sorry for bad english i am somewhat drunk
Lets discuss ship mechanics for a moment to shead some light on how a starship/ship works.
your powerplant is the ships heart. Powerplants run life support, weapon systems, defensive systems, engines, life support, and various subsystems. At green alert, normal running of a ship the powerplant should run at 50-60% of its safe operating condition. When shields come on and weapons start firing your basically running at your max operating capasity. Auxiliary power only recharges when the powerplant is back to normal operating conditions. When you hear them say "divert power" they litteraly mean divert, they are robbing another system(s) effective operating power to power another system.
Just like any electrial system, you are going to have power amplifiers which is one of the reasons the defiant had so many issues with power. They built the ship with an oversized power plant using std power amplifiers. Why bring this up? well if you notice everything trek weapon power output is measured in Terawatts, but shields are mesure in Terajules. In order to reach those limits you must amplify the power output coming into the system. For example, the weapons arrays on all ships are amplifiers, they take the regulated power and ramp up the juice, it is then pushed out in the form of energy. This is where your phasers, and disruptors are formed. its just like your power supply in your computer. Think of the wall socket as the warp core. your power supply as the amplifier. that power is then redistributed to each system to make it all work. i hope this makes some sense at least so you guys have a better understanding.
It just seems that a big ship like the Akira is more suited for the Cap Ship Slot than the Cruiser Slot.
Really, having the Defiant as a mean little Cruiser Killer compliments the Capital Ships very well. I remember a discussion about different types of weapons and damage, where the classification of a weapon's type effected damage to a particular kind of ship.
The biggest thing I see here is people are afraid to gimp the Defiant, or make it a god ship.
If you place it in the Cruiser pool at the top with plenty of cost and upkeep, equip it with anti-cruiser weapons, and a nasty set of teeth, it still turns into the "tough little ship" we all know and love it for. Its a good counter to the bulk of an enemy force as cruisers make up large portions of any developed fleet, and the upkeep could be so that it can't easily be spammed and abused, but low enough that you get what you pay for.
And once you do that, you leave the Akira to fill the Carrier Cap role where it can really shine.
To me, its a win, win.
actually sins has a targeting limit of 67 degrees in one direction, instead of 45. Instead of your standard 45, -45 degress sins has 67, -67. This is why some weapons continue to fire when the target is already passed the weapon point. This is also why it took so long to mount the beam weapons in the right places. its in the reference guide "A modders guide to sins of a solar empire" Page 5, mesh format, paragraph 3, toward the end.
Hi everybody,
I just downloaded this mod and i'm loving it. I was wondering though if anyone knows if the ship sizes were finalized. It just seems like there should be a bigger difference in the sizes of capital ship and crusiers. I was not sure if there sizes were so close for a reason. Also it seems like using the dynamic fighter style flying in battle is hindered alittle in the visuals because the ships can get so close together they end up bumping into each other. Is there anyway to limit how close they can get? Also it might look alittle better if the bigger ships (capital) weren't using the dynamic fighter style flying. It seems thay should be less manuverable or at least a lot slower when they "bob and weave". Just my thoughts thank you for any comments.
i think put the Defiant as a Cruiser and bring a new cap ship in like the prometheus class
Problem is its a lose lose situation, and i'm gonna tell you why. Both of these ships were created to combat the borg. Each of them are OP by their own standard. you have a ship that could literally destroy of disable a small fleet of its own and you have a small ship with enough firepower and defenses so lets break it down.
Defiant:
4 x pulse fire disruptors (pulse phasers in some places)
1 x Aft phaser array.
2 x Fwd quantum torpedo launcher
1 x Aft photon launcher
damage output 60,000 terawatts
now lets do the math.
5 weapons = 12000 terawatts each
4 pulse are doing 48000 terawatts per shot, usually fires in rapid succession of 3-5 shots
Akira:
5 x Phaser Arrays (270 degree coverage)*
15 x Photon Torpedo Tubes (Pulse Fire Tubes)*1
damage output 22,500 terawatts
now lets do the math.
1 x Large Saucer Array (Dorsal) 11,250 Terawatts
2 x Medium Saucer Arrays (Ventral) 2812.5 Terawatts
2 x Small Lateral Arrays 1406.25 Terawatts
Now in theory how emitter arrays are explained, the more emitters on the array, the more powerful the phaser is suppose to be.
(*) Currently it is disputed that the akira actually has 7 phaser arrays. the offical canon spec states 5, the model contains 7, the other 2 small arrays are located on the aft end of each nacelle
(*1) pulse fire tubes fire at a rate of 4 torpedoes/sec with a 1 sec reload. 350 torpedo compliment. 5 volleys total.
Notice that i did not mention what the power output of the quantums and the photons are suppose to be becuase no where in any canon spec do they reveal what the actual yield is per torp! there is no canon spec.
if there is any ship which is really underpowered it is the vorcha. the vorcha's output is 60,000 terawatts she is suppose to be on par with the galaxy. the galazy has 11 phasers compared to the vorcha's 12.
are you serious? prometheus is just as strong as the galaxy and the defiant, that would solve nothing.
http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/engineering102A/starfleet_1.png
http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/engineering102A/starfleet_2.png
in case you were wondering what they should be
Just curious how is the patch going? I cant seem to see if the rom pic is changing or not lol.
Thank you darkshimmer for those links. I'm guessing that since you have that information you did all the calculations on how big they should be in the game. It's a great mod so far and i'm sure it's going to be even better. Good job to the whole team.
Ok Shimmer. I get that you're using arguably canon facts to try and disprove my idea as being a logical solution. However, I'm trying to go off of it from a gameplay perspective, and I don't see how my idea is a "lose lose."
The Akira isn't the Sovvie. As far as I can tell, the designer built it as a carrier/gunship to fly with a fighter wing and privide heavy support with torpedo volleys and phaser fire. I'm not aware of it being designed to fight the Borg, specifically. Its a huge, heavily armed combat vessel even without its carrier capabilities taken into effect as of the moment. That alone qualifies it to be in the Capital Ship slot. Its just that powerful.
The Defiant was designed to fight the Borg along with the Sovvie, but we see in First Contact that it didn't fulfil that role too well. The Defiant is the perfect support to large ships. Its built for combat by having all of its weapons aimed ahead and ramped up to a level that could blow the ship apart if not regulated. But even still, I don't see it as a Capital Ship. I see it as a heavily armed Escort, a Fighter plane to the WWII bomber. Or a Destroyer to a Battleship or Carrier.
The Defiant Class isn't supposed to be a standalone starship in my mind. Generally, when it was by itself in DS9, it fought ships like Jem'hadar Attack Ships, Cardassian ships (which are commonly accepted to be less than amazing for the most part), and some Klingon ships as well. The Valiant didn't fare very well against the Dominion Dreadnaught as I remember...
When you think of a Capital Ship, what you think of it as standalone starship. A ship like a Galaxy, Sovvie, or Akira that can stand on its own against many many smaller ships and come out with minimal damage. If the Defiant was made to combat the Borg, it certainly wasn't made to combat them by itself. It had to be created to do so as a part of a fleet where the larger vessels would do most of the damage and the Defiant would be able to act by making pinpoint strikes against vulnerable areas of a cube while taking hits away from the larger vessels.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Defiant ISN'T a powerful ship. It is. But I don't think its suited for the Capital Ship role. To me, making it the top of the line cruiser, made for escorting and defending Captial Ships against the bulk cruiser force of enemy fleets sounds like a much more logical decision when looked at from a gameplay perspective.
I have to agree with Ryugi on the defiant matter. In-game, the the Defiant at it's current level of attack and defense is far weaker than the other capital ships. I had a fleet full of defiants that didnt fare too well against a fairly large enemy fleet, while another of my fleets being half that size with Galaxy-Class and Sovvies took out another enemy fleet of similar size and strength. Not to mention that one-on-one the Defiant just doesnt do enough to keep up with other capital ships of Fed or Klink design. Not to mention it's size just totally throws off the looks of my fleet 
If we kept the Defiant at it's same stats and swapped it with the Akira being made slightly (meaning just enough to par it up with other caps of the line) stronger and having abilities like a torpedo barrage to boot, then we got ourselves a serious ball game.
Not to say that i disagree with keeping it canon though. I'm always a fan of canon, but in this case i don't think it has as much use as making the game playable.
That aside, i absolutely love this mod now that i get starbases and decent defenses . Great job on a work well done so far, and i cannot wait to kill some rommies and soon after that i hope to kill some dominion fleets! But i won't be killing the borg. Ever. I'll be playing as them 
.
Then we would have defiant spam. But as shimmer said before once the abilities are in the cap ships will be stronger.
The Defiant, an itty bitty little frigate, survived a sustained battle with a full blown cube that wiped out most of the fleet sent to stop it, including the admiral's flagship. The Defiant is thus one tough mother fucker. Failed in fighting the Borg, or they just under-estimated them and sent too small a fleet? Try to stay realistic while forming your arguments.
As far as the Akira goes, theoretically torpedoes are much less effective against shields. An explosive device would be doing a fraction of the damage to a shield that it was to hulls, as they'd be designed to penetrate before exploding. The maximum would be half as the torpedoes have not been shown to be a shaped explosive. If they could penentrate the shield in the same manner as the hull, most of the blast would simply be in the space inbetween the bubble and the hull, and outside, with almost nothing being absorbed by it. It's not really that dangerous a ship, or the dominion war would have been a walk in the park with just a few of them wiping out entire fleets in seconds. The people behind the show could have just been utter morons though.
How one translates that to the game, and if one should even try considering we don't have numbers for either...
man does anyone else think that the al gives up to easily?.....it gives up to early with alot of territory it still owns..lol
I'd say its more realistic that they sent every ship available to deal with the situation. You'd have to be stupid to underestimate the Borg. The truth is, we don't know how long the ships were attacking the cube, so saying it was a "sustained" battle may be pushing it. Did the Borg attack the Defiant constantly? Probably not. We can't say for sure, because the movie doesn't tell us. We don't know the time delay between the battle starting and the Enterprise arriving on the scene. But really, that shouldn't be a factor. The Defiant Class just isn't a Capital Ship.
Is it a pushover? Hell no, its a tough ship.
But it is not a Capital Ship.
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