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Demigod Not Aimed For The Competitive Scene....

Demigod Not Aimed For The Competitive Scene....

:(

Quote from Frogboy:

If there's a typical daily population of say 2000 Demigod players and of that only 100 of them are "pre-arrange teams" it doesn't really make sense to spend a lot of resources to cater to those 100 people.  Instead, the effort should be made to make it easier for the other 1900 players who just want to have a good fun game.

He is talking about pre-arranged teams and such in this quote. He says that more people want to play without pre-arranged teams than the amount of people that do - therefore they shouldnt waste their money on making something to support it.

Quote from Frogboy (2)
Pre-arranged teams aren't hard to do programmatically. The problem is usually in the % of people who want a feature like that versus the number of people who just want to sit down and play the game online.


Its sad :(

The only reason I bought this game is because Frogboy and Stardock/GPG in general made it out that Demigod was going to be a competitive sport. To be more precise, "the counter strike of RTS".

That really does explain this game was released with no replays and observer mode - which is bascially a MUST for the competitive scene (in a RTS community at least) and its still not out 3 months+ after release.

169,721 views 90 replies
Reply #51 Top

Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

Reply #52 Top

Quoting Frogboy,
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

Yes.

 

But make sure you can specify WHO on your friends list.

Reply #53 Top

While I would be in support of an option like that, you would be back at the very discussion that caused all these problems in people abusing a matchmaking system for somthing its not designed to do. As far as difficulty of pairing up with people on your friends list, such an option seems much more difficult to program than just adding in a parallel team skirmish. Then again, I havn't seen your code so I guess I can't make that claim.

Reply #54 Top

that is a a very good way to solve the problem of course if you will play vs another friends team

 

as for the part where you can choose with wich freinds you get matched simply make a tick box in your frinds display, you want to play with them so all of you tick the option to play with eachother  and voila

Reply #55 Top

But make sure you can specify WHO on your friends list.

I expect a "do not match me against friend groups" option would be wanted as well.

Reply #56 Top

I like the friends idea, BUT, can you do something where people using the friends match option will be more likely to play against others also using the friends option?  Otherwise you'll still get legions of people crying that premades are stomping pugs again.

Also, I want to play with my real life friends when I can, I only have a few games a night to play, will I be able to play ranked games with them or is there "just a chance" I'd be able to play with them using this?  If there is only a chance I still wouldn't want to use it

Lastly, what if I have 5 or 6 friends online and use the checkbox join method, who will get on my team?  Or will I have to uncheck all of them except 2 to make sure I get them?

This method has a lot of explaining to do as to exactly how it would work IMO.

Reply #57 Top

I do not competitively play online but I'd say yes, provided that you can chose to not play premades. So either make it visible in the game list or have teams only play other teams.

Reply #58 Top

Quoting SoFFacet, reply 23



Quoting WickedBear,
reply 20
Hopefully, like me, you have learned to just keep your money on future releases rather than be dissapointed once you fall in love with a game. Everything I've said on this forums has largely been ignored as expected, I am but one person in the sea of a million crys.

It is just too evident to me that this will be a forward progression of things to come. When I hear things like "I know im the minority on this, [but im going to do it anyway]" I realize the things that people say are just that, words. This company hasn't come through on what it's promised its customers, and thats why they've lost all of my friends and I future support.


I really, really don't want to ragequit this game. I'm trying so very hard not to, because at times it really is fun. But you are right, GPG is not helping me in that respect at all. Two of the teammates that I started playing this game with have already stopped playing. It seems only a matter of time until I follow suit. 


Same boat here.

Last night me and my m8 were playing, games not filling, and I began to talk with him about the forum stuff (I'm more addicted, read everything and all, he doesn’t). Than he tells me, "well, I will do something else than, and tell Gersa (A friend we invited to the game, and would buy the game this week with another friend of his) to not buy right now."

I'm still here, but just waiting for the next patch, that’s what looks like at least.

The problem that me and my m8 find with this game. (just for reference, we think ourselves as pro players)

Well, yes, bugs r annoying, but not the main issue. Big issue is an item that completely brings unpleasant game play experience e.g. Horn of Battle, and its there for some time not being fixed, put a aura the size as the first lvl batswarm, that would solve the problem.

Pathfiding is hell annoying, but I think that’s hard to fix, but it has to be fixed.

Now, the real issue, and other have pointing out already. Without competitive scene the game will die.

I really don't understand why a great number of players on this game doesn’t have friends they play often enough to be called a premade. I honestly don't understand.

Ppl are asking for the game to be like this (Scenario 1):

John Doe gets home from work, gets a beer, seat at his computer, plays a game with a bunch of strangers, win or lose, no1 talks nothing during the game (because there is no pro do say "hey thats wrong, try this instead), and repeat this everyday.

Ppl are asking for the game NOT to be like this (scenario 2):

John Doe gets home from work, gets a beer, seat at his computer, open his friend list, finds out that there r 3 of his friends online. Than he sands a msg with his IP address and get them on vent, play the game, talk about the day, talk about woman’s, tell how bad the economy is and all, relax, win or lose and go to bed.

Scenario number 2 is something WRONG, by the community standards of this game, off course they r a premade, they will get better by each night, and they will be friends. They will like to play with each other. And one day one of them will say "hey, we r rank 500, lets bring our game faces on, think some builds, would be cool to be top-100". Whats wrong with scenario number 2? I really don't know, really don't. Some1 with no friends on this game, please explain it to me in a simple manner why scenario number 1 is better than number 2.

Scenario 1 will hold its ground until John Doe without friends finds a new game to play that looks fun, more than DG. He wont have friends to hold him with DG, and he is gone, wont look back to DG.

Scenario 2 will hold Mr. Doe for quite some time, he will have friends playing this game that will say “awww man, don’t go, the game is this and that, we r good together and all…”, he will, as well, want to improve in the ladder. But the game has to offer this possibility for him.

Now, next patch looks like this:

Ppl with friends on this game, well, #$%¨&* you, go play with strangers if u want rank. This game is for casual players ONLY, not only that, casual and strangers players only (Scenario 1).

That’s no good at all.

What we suggest as improvement you (frogboy), said its not a possibility. Team Matchmaking, and that would improve the game, and the community alike.

I really don’t know why scenario 1 is better than 2, some1, really, explain to me.

Sorry for my English, I’m a Brazilian that has to wait 20mins for a game because my ping is 280. And I still play this game, still…

 

Reply #59 Top

Quoting woppin, reply 24
Would you move to HoN, LoL, or something else? What about your friends?

For reference: I picked up a copy of DoW2 for cheap yesterday having being sold on the new patch. I think Relic are moving in the right direction.

I'd probably just go back to the games I played beforehand. TF2, Company of Heroes, L4D, heck maybe even Guild Wars. Still waiting for SC2...

Reply #60 Top

Quoting kryo, reply 5

I expect a "do not match me against friend groups" option would be wanted as well.

 

If it's ranked that would seem like a very bad idea, mainly because you could ensure you never face a challenge and get easy wins.

Reply #61 Top

Quoting ItchyDustbin, reply 10

Quoting kryo, reply 5
I expect a "do not match me against friend groups" option would be wanted as well.
 

If it's ranked that would seem like a very bad idea, mainly because you could ensure you never face a challenge and get easy wins.

Oh absolutely. I am talking about friends you do not want to be paired WITH, not against.

Reply #62 Top

One of the only good things I liked about HoN which I hope that at some point DG can implement is the game filtering system. They have so many options like skill tier, no leavers, random only, ping, etc.

This is the only part of the game where it outshines DG (the rest of the game is crap IMHO).

Anything that could make demigod:

1 - start games faster

2 - make games more stable (filtering people with low upstream who can't handle 4v4), low sim speed

Would OWN. I find myself waiting 30 minutes to fill a game in europe in what is supposed to be RUSH HOUR. More Americans purchased this game than Europeans and that shows. But I cba to play with americans until they learn that ping 250-280ms is reasonable and that I'm not from "Mexico on a dialup modem". /whine

Dear Frogboy,

All those people who you say are just lurking and idling and perhaps only playing single player should be given incentive to start playing online. Helping these people filter "noob only" games and so forth before they get spanked by more experience players will ownnnnnnn.

Reply #63 Top

If it's ranked that would seem like a very bad idea, mainly because you could ensure you never face a challenge and get easy wins.

I thought it would go without saying, but opting to not fight premades would also mean you don't get matched with your own friends either. Basically an opt-out for people who *do* want to play PUG-only matches (or who just don't have friends to play alongside and don't want to fight a lopsided match against a premade). It could also be worded as "random teams only".

Without such an option, we'd be in the same situation as now with PUGs and premades at each others throats, except it'd be easier to do premades. If the PUGs can't avoid premades, it'll just exacerbate the situation where many of them they feel like premades are using them as rank-up fodder.

 

Reply #64 Top

I thought it would go without saying, but opting to not fight premades would also mean you don't get matched with your own friends either. Basically an opt-out for people who *do* want to play PUG-only matches (or who just don't have friends to play alongside and don't want to fight a lopsided match against a premade).

Without such an option, we'd be in the same situation as now with PUGs and premades at each others throats, except it'd be easier to do premades.

Yet the stats will be even more meaningless that way unless there was a differentiating types of matches stat (which comes back to the whole parallel ladder. Why does a win from random players vs random players count as much than a group of friends playing a group of friends? I could care less about stats, but that logic didn't make sense to me.

Reply #65 Top

Sounds like an excellent plan really. If you can specify what friends you want to try and match up with..

.

My question from.. somewhere else remains. Will there be seperate "random pug" rankings and group rankings ? Because i have a feeling the two wont really be compareble when it comes to skill level and all that... Pugs tend to screw you over, while a quiter/whiner/feeder/crystal camping reg are less likely in premade groups

Reply #66 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

Yes yes yes yes. You need to make those games bigger though. Up to 5v5.

I also don't kinda want to play the other game options like fortress, domination etc. Conquest is the way this game is meant to be played.

Reply #67 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

Am I the someone? or I got beaten to it? O:)

Reply #68 Top

Quoting transitive, reply 18
the other option might be to do a Special Edition Re-release of the game. something similar was done by CD-Projekt with their excellent rpg The Witcher. the initial release had lots of bugs and was incomplete in terms of its graphics and voice over acting. so they fixed the bugs and spruced up the graphics and acting and made a big advertising push for what they called "The Witcher Enhanced Edition". the upgrade was made available for free to all existing Witcher owners but they treated the launch of enhanced edition as a new product in its own right. it was a major improvement and got alot of good press and alot of new players. 


its not directly comparable since Witcher was a strictly single player game, but the idea might be translated.


how do you feel about releasing "Demigod: Special Edition" as a new product with full adverstising support? this product would include replays, team/clan support, and 2 additional demigods. maybe some new maps as well. i understand this would represent some degree of business risk that Stardock and/or GPG might deem unacceptable. but it might be worth it as a way to breathe new life into Demigod. 

That's a damn good idea.  I bought the original Witcher (after a couple of patches) and thoroughly enjoyed it.  However, I was greatly impressed when the developer released the Enhanced version as a separate stand-alone version--and allowed the buyers of the original game to download the "enhanced" elements for free.  It was both a straight-up admission that the original release had not been perfect (e.g., long load times, overused models, and other issues) and a display of developer commitment to the product and the consumer base.  I suppose sales of the stand-alone enhanced edition helped to pay for the free enhancements offered to the original buyers.  It just made a certain sort of sense as both a business move and a public-relations gesture.

While Transitive makes good suggestions for a special edition, I would recommend the following: 4 new demigods (including the two free ones already promised), 2-4 new maps, robust modding tools, replay/clan support, GREATLY improved AI, and some semblance of a single-player campaign (even a very short one would do).  The game would again retail for $40-50, but people who already own the original could download the enhancements for free through Impulse. 

Frogboy, would this make any sense based on the business model and contractual obligations that exist between SD and GPG (not to mention projected profitability)? 

Reply #69 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

 

This would go a long ways to enabling more competitive play between premades.  But I'll be pessimistic about human nature and make a prediction that a lot of premades do not want to play other premades.  On the other hand, for those of us that want to avoid premades in Pantheon games, this would be a help.

One last plea, though.  Pantheon seems to consider skill level as a last resort when matching people for games.  I can't tell you the number of times that games are just lopsided.  I recognize that this may be due to the low numbers of people playing Pantheon at any one time, but I would be willing to wait a few more minutes to get a competitive game. 

And a last comment / criticism.  This game is multiplayer "centric" only because it lacks any real single player game - not because it is loaded with MP features.  A true multiplayer "centric" game would have bells and whistles around the MP game - which sounds like it would have been mostly in SD's camp. 

For example:

  • Premades handling
  • Robust stats (sounds like you are getting there)
  • Team rankings
  • Good chat and lobby
  • Easy way to discern skill level from lobby
  • Better handling of AI
  • Random teams

Gameplay is great though, which keeps me playing.  It's the infrastructure around the gameplay that makes me frustrated.  It is extremely hard to get a game going which is competitive without a lot of tedious HTML lookups on the website. 

Reply #70 Top

Is there any real good reason to keep pantheon?

ie does anyone actually care about Light v Dark? The only thing I see is that it limits you to which DG u can play for the duration of a Pantheon.

It should just be:

1v1 ranked

Team ranked

Random team ranked (ie pantheon without the light v dark).

If you say that it's easy to link people up into teams from your friends list, this should be EASY!

(unless of course, the difficulty is keeping a track of 3 ladders)

It'd be interesting to know what is easy to do and what is not.

Reply #71 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

 

Sure.  As long as you play against other teamed people, and your performance is tracked so as to be pitted against those with similar stats.

Also, I think the chat tool may need to be improved so that arranging these games is possible.  I haven't tried it in a while, but I feel like a majority of my messages are never received, or cannot be responded to because they are in game.

Reply #72 Top

Quoting Kokujin, reply 8



The problem that me and my m8 find with this game. (just for reference, we think ourselves as pro players)

Well, yes, bugs r annoying, but not the main issue. Big issue is an item that completely brings unpleasant game play experience e.g. Horn of Battle, and its there for some time not being fixed, put a aura the size as the first lvl batswarm, that would solve the problem.

Pathfiding is hell annoying, but I think that’s hard to fix, but it has to be fixed.

Now, the real issue, and other have pointing out already. Without competitive scene the game will die.

I really don't understand why a great number of players on this game doesn’t have friends they play often enough to be called a premade. I honestly don't understand.


(...)


Now, next patch looks like this:

Ppl with friends on this game, well, #$%¨&* you, go play with strangers if u want rank. This game is for casual players ONLY, not only that, casual and strangers players only (Scenario 1).

That’s no good at all.

What we suggest as improvement you (frogboy), said its not a possibility. Team Matchmaking, and that would improve the game, and the community alike.

I really don’t know why scenario 1 is better than 2, some1, really, explain to me.

Sorry for my English, I’m a Brazilian that has to wait 20mins for a game because my ping is 280. And I still play this game, still…

 

Kokujin speaks for me too.

Reply #73 Top

Quoting kryo, reply 13

If it's ranked that would seem like a very bad idea, mainly because you could ensure you never face a challenge and get easy wins.


I thought it would go without saying, but opting to not fight premades would also mean you don't get matched with your own friends either. Basically an opt-out for people who *do* want to play PUG-only matches (or who just don't have friends to play alongside and don't want to fight a lopsided match against a premade). It could also be worded as "random teams only".

Without such an option, we'd be in the same situation as now with PUGs and premades at each others throats, except it'd be easier to do premades. If the PUGs can't avoid premades, it'll just exacerbate the situation where many of them they feel like premades are using them as rank-up fodder.

 
Quoting WickedBear, reply 14


Yet the stats will be even more meaningless that way unless there was a differentiating types of matches stat (which comes back to the whole parallel ladder. Why does a win from random players vs random players count more than a group of friends playing a group of friends? I could care less about stats, but that logic didn't make sense to me.

Well, ranking is for, 90% of the time, for the competitive players, e.g. premades. Skirmish would be better, imho, if I can face the ranked 1 player, and if he is a PuG and I'm a premade, that wont happen. Whats the point? Some1 thats don't care about finding a group to play with shouldnt be treated dif. in a ladder thats ment to point out the better player.

In other words, ranked games is like FFA, deal with it. Non-ranked games has home-rules and all, imho.

Reply #74 Top

In fact I'm not waiting anymore.

Just the fact that this kinda of casual players % stuff was my reason...

DG.... "I dont love you anymore" LoL 

I cant imagine myself playing this game in a team that doesnt have my friends. Kokujin that we start to play everything together than Eskendale, Pacov, Madthinker, Shade or at well against some very cool teams like the team with Zyvrict and Foster_21 I just wont.

Reply #75 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1
Regarding pantheon/skirmish:

I like the idea someone mentioned where it will team you up with people who are on your friends lists. That would be EASY to do.

What's the consensus here on that thought?

I like the idea.

Question. How ping will be handled in the skirmish games?