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Heroes of Newerth (HoN), League of Legends (LoL), DotA, Demigod - videos, facts, discussion

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Heroes of Newerth (HoN), League of Legends (LoL), DotA, Demigod - videos, facts, discussion

from Demigod Forums

Heroes of Newerth:


(That's an older youtube vid I found. I'm not allowed to publish new material from the beta.)


A beta-leak video review of HoN (German). Shows you much of the lobby interface and other features.

 

League of Legends:


Gametrailers preview of LoL.

 


An official trailer for LoL.


A video review of LoL (english). Not sure if leaked or sanctioned.

 

DotA (Defense of the Ancients)

 


Some DotA video. I honestly couldn't find ANY good gameplay video for Dota. Most vids are simply my-dick-is-BIG demonstrations accompanied by some shitty trash metal soundtrack or something bombastic (like, US-marine corp recruitment orchestrals or Carmina Burana). Sorry. If you can recommend a good DotA video I'll put it up.

 

 

Demigod:


Demigod showcase video featuring Lord Erebus.

Demigod showcase video featuring Queen of Thorns. Probably not office safe.
:blush:

 

For those that don't know what HoN or LoL are: Both are DotA clones. If you don't know what DotA is then google it.

First HoN impressions:

  • Graphics
    Looks like Warcraft 3 (i.e. old, cheap, candy colored comic look). Seems much smoother, though. Less jerky scrolling. Any comparison to Demigod would be unfair. It's like comparing Superman to Batman - both are great in their environment but if you'd match them up against each other Superman would wipe the floor with Batmans ass from two cities away.
    Has a limited zoom (i.e. you can zoom in a bit and back, but not out) and a functional minimap.
  • Interface
    Just like DotA, i'd say. Bottom quarter of the screen is occupied by artwork, skills, hero stats and the minimap. I'd call it functional but totally ripped of from Warcraft (which isn't necessarily bad). Very small icons and text. Hard to read and the tooltips have much text. Demigod is downright minimalistic in comparison.
  • Heroes
    A large selection of heroes ... too many to grasp the gist of them in the short time I played it. Not all heroes were implemented yet but it looks like they planned for a 60 heroes cast. Each hero seems to have four different skills you can improve as you gain levels, plus the ability to simply improve your attributes. The skills are either passive or active and have a cooldown timer similar to DG. But since some heroes can have several passive skills out of a set of four, that can mean that you are left with a meager single one active skill, like the tosser I picked (Magebane or something). Kinda like Oooze UB without foul grasp.
    However the skills some heroes have do things that are not seen in Demigod. Some manipulate the map (by planting obstacles(walls) and some move the enemy against their will. Some passive skills trigger a damage effect everytime you use an active skill.
  • Maps
    Think Warcraft again. Mazes with trees and rocks marking the boundary. Or think Demigod maps with boring graphics. They ain't really that different from the DG mazes ... just more "realistic" and much larger.
  • Players
    Lot's of open games in the lobby. Some fairly large ones, too (I think 5v5 is max). If you've played DotA before then you'll have no problems finding friends. If you only played Demigod before, then you'll think the HoN community is a bag of arseholes because you'll likely be taking your first stumbling steps with dota veterant that are not exactly renowned for their forgiving attitude towards noobs. Luckily there's a fuck-filter in the chat.
  • Economy
    Killing stuff earns you XP and gold. You can buy equipment in shops. No base building, but your base starts with several buildings that don't offer any interaction, though. Creeps spawn in certain buildings and run on lanes to the enemy base, which should sound familiar.
  • Death & Dying
    You get automatically resurrected after some time. You can, however, shorten the wait time by paying a moderate amount of gold, which is actually an interesting feature. Similar to DG, there's a Healing Crystal equivalent, something that had to be pointed out to me in the Demigod forum (thanks, dude).
  • Gameplay
    Weeeeeeeeell .... I sucked in my first game and got promptly verbaly punished for being a noob. This doesn't help endear you to the game, so my perceptions may be flawed. But my first impression was: I can't zoom out (I swear, after playing Demigod I think it's impossible to enjoy RTS games without a God-Eye-Zoom)!
    In addition to the fixed camera height you have a considerably larger map and a faster movement speed than experienced in Demigod and you can't help feeling confused and disoriented. The creeps are stronger in comparison to DG creeps (but then those puny heroes are no half-gods). There is no health crystal. I think the only way to heal up is to buy potions. At least you can buy more than three per slot.
    The game is fast paced but not so fast that you'll experience instant death right from the start. You'll have plenty of time to decide that a battle is a lost cause and run for the towers.
    And your job? Easy, kill and destroy. No flags, no warscore (although there are other gamemodes that might have something similar). The only thing you can do is find creeps or heroes and kill them. And find enemy buildings and destroy them. That's it.
  • Game Modes
    There are only custom games. No skirmish or pantheon. No single player mode and (currently) no bots to solo against. Many possible options to setup a custom game. And the features the lobby offers are something to be seen. Feels like a database browser (i.e. comfortable and powerful).
  • Replays
    They work. Take that, Demigod!
  • Community
    It's a new game so you'd expect the community to be new also. But it's not. It's mostly DotA veterans that got a bit frustrated with the aged Warcraft 3 engine and wanted something, er, newish. Someone in the HoN forums summed it up pretty much: "I'm actually pretty surprised by this community. So far it's been very hard to find nice people. Most players - particularly those with Dota experience are incredibly rude to all players."
    The Demigod community certainly has it's share of unfriendlies, but as a whole it's quite amiable. Maybe this will change with the rise of competetive play.

Bottom line: Graphically it's definetly a step down when compared to Demigod. But noticably better than DotA. It's really really running smooooooothly. If you consider the small DG roster Demigod's biggest drawback, then HoN might seem attractive. The complexity and detail of each hero is lower than that of any one Demigod. It's also extremely beginner unfriendly. And even though Demigod didn't have any kind of tutorial either, you grasp the gist of DG way faster than that of HoN. HoN is clearly aimed at DotA players. It looks so similar to DotA that fanboys might as well stay there.

It's still in beta so many things will change. The strongest point of HoN is it's large hero rooster. Apart from that I don't think the Demigod has much to fear.

But since it's an early test phase, I'll certainly give it another try. I can endure the "F*CKING _NOOB" for a time, hehehehe.

 

demigod
576,942 views 214 replies
Reply #176 from Stardock Forums Top

I've been playing the beta and so far, well, I quickly got tired of getting killed every 3 minutes.  This is a very competitive, pro game.  I think only experienced warcraft 3-based DotA players can really get into it at this point. The graphics are go for a classic/old blizzard games look, and that is what competitive gamers go for.  As it's been said before, this is not a game to be compared with Demigod.  They are in completely different leagues.  Demigod is more for the casual, make-your-own-computer, computer enthusiast who wants to max out the visuals in their games.  Heroes of Newerth is for the competitive LAN matches we all love and hate. :)

Reply #177 from Demigod Forums Top

I think only experienced warcraft 3-based DotA players can really get into it at this point.

And yet, last night there were almost 14.000 people online and 250+ open games.  I think HoN is already one of the most massive online strategy games!

I remember the days when competative meant good - all the best multiplayer games of age were very unfriendly to noobs.  Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, Starcraft.  They even had "glitches" that were intentionaly beeing perfected by the devs to enable hard to do powerful moves (think bunny-hopping in Quake).  Seems we have gotten lazy and instead of bettering ourselves thru practice, we're asking the game devs to cover our incompetence.

Anyway, HoN has it's downfalls too - the limited view being the one that bothers me the most.  I just hate artificial limitations like that that are introduced to promote a skill at the game (map awareness).  Last hitting and denial can also be tedious sometimes, though I must say I'm still impartial about that mechanic - it does good as much as it does bad (LoL devs have commented that they also consider last hitting a tedium so they are looking into a median solution).

However, as was previously posted - HoN just works.  And it works perfectly well with a slew of online features (with Mac OS X version being a huge bonus for me too).  Compared to the frustrations of getting a decent game going in Demigod, I just can't make myself come back to it.  At the end, I like Demigod's gameplay and setting a bit better, but the online experience havily pulls me towards HoN.

 

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #178 from Stardock Forums Top

Yeah, I agree with you on that, but you know, back in those days, the game industry was much tinier than it is now.  Yeah, Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, and such were difficult to get into, and that common because there was less at stake than now. Nowadays, with a multi-million dollar industry, it's in gaming companies best financial motives to keep their games available to the biggest amount of the gaming population as possible.  Not just competitive gamers, but casuals too, the casual market just can't be ignored anymore, a side-effect of the rise in popularity of consoles too. Lack of zoom-out seems to be intentional to keep the old warcraft 3 style too.

Quoting Misfortune, reply 177


However, as was previously posted - HoN just works.  And it works perfectly well with a slew of online features (with Mac OS X version being a huge bonus for me too).  Compared to the frustrations of getting a decent game going in Demigod, I just can't make myself come back to it.  At the end, I like Demigod's gameplay and setting a bit better, but the online experience havily pulls me towards HoN.
 

This highlights just the importance of easiness to play is for a game to be a success or failure.  It's as important if not more than the game itself, specially with a mostly online game.  Heroes of Newerth's match-making lobby system is just amazing.  That's the way to go, easiness to jump into, arranging a match and playing.  I'm glad this game is as populated as you say it is.  Might give it another try, hopefully more noobies like me are playing now. ;)

Reply #179 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting zndkwin, reply 178
I'm glad this game is as populated as you say it is.  Might give it another try, hopefully more noobies like me are playing now.

Actually, it's mostly average players looking for a quick pubstomp on their new accounts. Sadly.

I remember the days when competative meant good - all the best multiplayer games of age were very unfriendly to noobs. Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, Starcraft. They even had "glitches" that were intentionaly beeing perfected by the devs to enable hard to do powerful moves (think bunny-hopping in Quake).

There's no reason to make a game "intentionally unfriendly to noobs" other than to frustrated pubbies. Being unfriendly was a side-effect of being complex, which in turn was a side-effect of being competitive. Games that are easy to pick up and play, but have huge possibilities for competitive gameplay (such as Super Smash Brothers Melee) are bound to be the most popular. But that's pretty obvious, one would think.

Reply #180 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree. Being hard to master and having a steep learning curve are not the same thing.

I don't really thing online shooters are comparable. They require only one thing: practice. Practice your aim and the map. On pubs (important addition) the people that played the longest usually were the best, there was no real skill required (only if you went pro). In games like Demigod however you need to learn the game; how do you counter each demigod the best? What do spell animations look like? What items will help me best in this situation, etc. It has a learning curve. Yes, practice still is important, but also knowledge and insight into the game. And this is where the learning curve comes in. There's a difference between knowing the game 1 month and sucking, knowing it 3 months and fair pretty well, and knowing it 6 months and being skilled, as opposed to knowing it 1 month and sucking, knowing it 3 months and sucking, knowing it 6 months and sucking and then finally fair well enough to play the pros.

Reply #181 from Demigod Forums Top

AFAIK Practice == Learning, there is no difference.

Reply #182 from Demigod Forums Top

AFAIK Practice == Learning, there is no difference.

Perhaps I'm just playing with semantics, but learning and practice ARE two different things.

You can learn a game's rules quickly, but require practice to master. A good game is often easy to learn, and requres lots of fun practice to master.

Learning is picking up the knowledge required to play, practice will allow the player to apply said knowledge with better judgement.

Reply #183 from Demigod Forums Top

I'd have to agree with Daemon on this one. Again using the SSBM example, I can teach someone to play it in under 5 minutes. They can now have fun with the game and understand all the basics of it.

4 years of play later, they might hit professional level :P

Reply #184 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting twifightDG, reply 180
I agree. Being hard to master and having a steep learning curve are not the same thing.

I don't really thing online shooters are comparable. They require only one thing: practice. Practice your aim and the map. On pubs (important addition) the people that played the longest usually were the best, there was no real skill required (only if you went pro). In games like Demigod however you need to learn the game; how do you counter each demigod the best? What do spell animations look like? What items will help me best in this situation, etc. It has a learning curve. Yes, practice still is important, but also knowledge and insight into the game. And this is where the learning curve comes in. There's a difference between knowing the game 1 month and sucking, knowing it 3 months and fair pretty well, and knowing it 6 months and being skilled, as opposed to knowing it 1 month and sucking, knowing it 3 months and sucking, knowing it 6 months and sucking and then finally fair well enough to play the pros.

So the only difference between you and a pro football player is that they practice a lot more often? Avid players of such onlie shooters like quake or unreal do claim that it takes skill to master those games.  Yes, you get better with practice, but they say that there's too a skill component that you have to develop in order to be a good player.  Similar situation with fighting games.  It's easy to dismiss most of them as button-mashing competitions, but there is a level of skill needed which is not determined by the amount of hours put into the day on a daily basis.

Reply #185 from Demigod Forums Top

Just to clarify, learning is the acqusition of new knowledge while practice is the refinement of pre-exisiting knowledge through repetition. There is definatly some overlap, however, as while practicing you may discover something new, however this is usually accidental as if you're looking for something new, you're not practicing.

Reply #186 from Demigod Forums Top

Oh great. So now how are we going to define skill? :rofl:

In a few years we might have all the definitions we need to collectively make a sentence.

Reply #187 from Demigod Forums Top

Skill, in terms of a video game, is one's perceived level of competency at whichever video game is the subject of the discussion at hand. 'Skill' at a game, such as a fighting game, is actually several skills used in unison - such as pattern recognition coupled with behavioural anticipation to determine which combo you're opponent is working on starting and where and when is best to counter it.
I don't have 'skill' at any video game, I simply have many skills which allow me to perform well at the video games I play.

Reply #188 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting zndkwin, reply 184

So the only difference between you and a pro football player is that they practice a lot more often? Avid players of such onlie shooters like quake or unreal do claim that it takes skill to master those games.  Yes, you get better with practice, but they say that there's too a skill component that you have to develop in order to be a good player.  Similar situation with fighting games.  It's easy to dismiss most of them as button-mashing competitions, but there is a level of skill needed which is not determined by the amount of hours put into the day on a daily basis.

You obviously failed to read one of my sentenses. I'll quote it again for you.

On pubs (important addition) the people that played the longest usually were the best, there was no real skill required (only if you went pro).

Notice the words in ()? Yes, if you go pro you need skill, and also some talent. I'm not downtalking on pros here, I'm downtalking on the people in pubs here. They don't win because they have the skill, they win because they had more practice. Note that pros rarely play on pubs. They play tournaments and on their own private server, for clan matches.

But that wasn't my point, my point is that those games need very little to learn, and very much to practice..

And my second point is that HoN/DOTA needs a lot to learn and you can only be good if you've learned it all, which is no fun for new players.

/rejoin above discussion

Reply #189 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Misfortune, reply 177

I think only experienced warcraft 3-based DotA players can really get into it at this point.
And yet, last night there were almost 14.000 people online and 250+ open games.  I think HoN is already one of the most massive online strategy games!

I remember the days when competative meant good - all the best multiplayer games of age were very unfriendly to noobs.  Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, Starcraft.  They even had "glitches" that were intentionaly beeing perfected by the devs to enable hard to do powerful moves (think bunny-hopping in Quake).  Seems we have gotten lazy and instead of bettering ourselves thru practice, we're asking the game devs to cover our incompetence.

Anyway, HoN has it's downfalls too - the limited view being the one that bothers me the most.  I just hate artificial limitations like that that are introduced to promote a skill at the game (map awareness).  Last hitting and denial can also be tedious sometimes, though I must say I'm still impartial about that mechanic - it does good as much as it does bad (LoL devs have commented that they also consider last hitting a tedium so they are looking into a median solution).

However, as was previously posted - HoN just works.  And it works perfectly well with a slew of online features (with Mac OS X version being a huge bonus for me too).  Compared to the frustrations of getting a decent game going in Demigod, I just can't make myself come back to it.  At the end, I like Demigod's gameplay and setting a bit better, but the online experience havily pulls me towards HoN.

 

 

You forget the game is free. And in the most open closed beta ever.

Reply #190 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 189

Quoting Misfortune, reply 177
I think only experienced warcraft 3-based DotA players can really get into it at this point.
And yet, last night there were almost 14.000 people online and 250+ open games.  I think HoN is already one of the most massive online strategy games!

I remember the days when competative meant good - all the best multiplayer games of age were very unfriendly to noobs.  Quake, Unreal, Warcraft, Starcraft.  They even had "glitches" that were intentionaly beeing perfected by the devs to enable hard to do powerful moves (think bunny-hopping in Quake).  Seems we have gotten lazy and instead of bettering ourselves thru practice, we're asking the game devs to cover our incompetence.

Anyway, HoN has it's downfalls too - the limited view being the one that bothers me the most.  I just hate artificial limitations like that that are introduced to promote a skill at the game (map awareness).  Last hitting and denial can also be tedious sometimes, though I must say I'm still impartial about that mechanic - it does good as much as it does bad (LoL devs have commented that they also consider last hitting a tedium so they are looking into a median solution).

However, as was previously posted - HoN just works.  And it works perfectly well with a slew of online features (with Mac OS X version being a huge bonus for me too).  Compared to the frustrations of getting a decent game going in Demigod, I just can't make myself come back to it.  At the end, I like Demigod's gameplay and setting a bit better, but the online experience havily pulls me towards HoN.

 
 

You forget the game is free. And in the most open closed beta ever.

HoN's going to cost money when released afaik.

As for the most open closed beta ever - Yeah, pretty much. Speaking of which I have 11 unused beta invites if anyone wants one. <<

Reply #191 from Demigod Forums Top

Ah. I meant the game is basically free now. So yeah, its going to have a lot of people. Its going to cost money when it retails.

Reply #192 from Demigod Forums Top

I wonder if the improvements of HoN over DotA are worth it in the minds of the beta testers. As far as I heard, the bulk of the improvements and changes are in the lobby - the matchmaking system. 

This sounds ... underwhelming.

 

Reply #193 from Demigod Forums Top

How exactly are they planning on selling HoN, out of curiosity? I know LoL wants to use micropayments, which means I'll never touch the accursed thing.

Reply #194 from Demigod Forums Top

I think there was a poll on it and the most favourable choice was a one time payment deal, I believe.

Reply #195 from Demigod Forums Top

Mmm. Then I'll have to decide between TF2, L4D2, or HoN as my game of choice to play with my brother. Kinda leaning toward L4D2 if his system can handle it. Sorry HoN.

Reply #196 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Aroddo, reply 192
I wonder if the improvements of HoN over DotA are worth it in the minds of the beta testers. As far as I heard, the bulk of the improvements and changes are in the lobby - the matchmaking system. 

This sounds ... underwhelming.

HoN has one of the most advanced multiplayer systems I have ever seen.  The thing is that they host ALL games on their servers and the clients gets data only on a need to know basis (not fully implemented yet, but they say soon).  This makes bandwith use a lot lower and it makes hacking (even simple maphacks) absolutely impossibile as the client actually does not have the data of what is in the fog.  Add to that game reconnect on drop - which I already had opportunity to use and it fcking rocks, unbelivably stable and fast, Win, Linux and Mac OS X clients, advanced filtering of games by options... and those are just the improvements on the so to say backend. 

HoN also has a very very nicely implemented single draft and or random draft systems, full stats tracking, automatching (not yet implemented), ban lists and rock solid community features just to mention some improvements, so I think there are plenty of feautures that making it worth it.

How exactly are they planning on selling HoN, out of curiosity? I know LoL wants to use micropayments, which means I'll never touch the accursed thing.

They also just made a preorder available, 30$, can purchase from anywhere, lifetime server access.  IMO its a good value at that price - I already purchased just to support S2 cause they sure as hell deserve it.

Reply #197 from Demigod Forums Top

The game will be $30.  Preorder Today for these bonus:

 

Reserve your Beta Nickname and Account

Ability to Taunt in Game

Special In-Game Icon

Unique Chat Name Color

Beta Invites for your friends

Reply #198 from Demigod Forums Top

whoot ??????

 

30$ for Dota Reloaded  ????

 

ive thought the main game is for free and players can buy some goodies for real money ??

Reply #199 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting DemiCom, reply 198
whoot ??????

 

30$ for Dota Reloaded  ????

 

ive thought the main game is for free and players can buy some goodies for real money ??

You are thinking of league of legends, HoN is $30, LoL is "free".

 

I have been playing the HoN beta over the last week. Its a much faster and more team based game than DG. It only took me a couple of games to get the fee of it and there are always HEAPS of noob only games so you are never forced to play against people way over your skill level.

Yes the community is worse the DG and you always seem to get a 1337 dota-fag on your team but as soon as you remind them that it is a noob only game that they have joind they will either shut up or help you out so thats ok. Also it records your leave rate so people very rarely rage quit on you.

Reply #200 from Demigod Forums Top

i have started to play the beta just recently thanks to mr. haze who kindly sent me a key, and i must say, i have never played dota before, but the thing is, i dont need to play dota to see that HoN is a complete replica,  the interface is so wc3 alike, and often times in places where it actually not suited to this kind of game. now, it maybe was acceptable in dota, but if the devs wanted to go out of the wc3 engine constrains, why havent they done so?

just the smallest little example - your hero is not defaulted to hold ground upon reaching its place, i mean, in an rts its totally acceptable while you are managing several units, but in a game like this? why would i want my hero to chase creeps out of the safe zone and into the enemy hands while i take my eyes off my hero for a second? there are many more small unlogical things like this that makes you wonder what the hell they were thinking, or to be precise, why the hell havent they actually took the time think and just straight forward copied dota.

the graphics: well, its obvious that a game can be good even if the gfx sucks, see dwarf fortress for example, but hmm, its not about the quality of the gfx as a beauty factor that bother me here, but more like the gfx as a game enhancer, for example, in demigod, you can instantly distinguish the demigods from creeps and other demigods, thats beacause the true greatness in demigod gfx is not in the little pretty textures the demigods and creeps has, but in the smart concept art that created a unique silohete for each creep and demigod.

but the thing is, HoN is light years ahead from Demigod in terms of multiplayer options, and options that, i feel, are totally neccesary to this kind of game.

HoN has a lot more content, even tho the demigods themself has more freedom to mold your way, and there are citadel upgrades that add strategy, the actual thing is that there are only few ways to build a demigod that are the best builds and therefore takes the demigods complexity advantage from HoN with its many heros and items.

my conclusion is that in terms of potential, demigod has so much more potential to live up too, and if the modding community and the devs would add more content, along multiplayer enhancment, there will be no reason to play HoN.

and about that "no need to choose a game, and we could all just play along debate" - sorry, its Bs, only few has time to play these two similar games, and if i wanna jump between games i'd jump between demigod/HoN to a diff game like an Fps or an actuall Rts/Tbs.

it is a comptetion between demigod and HoN which only one can win, the two cant live peacfully side to side along each other.

and with StarCraft2 coming soon, which will probably spawn a new Dota based on that, i cant see any reason as of this moment to pay 30$ to a dota clone, but i can see a reason to pay 40 to a dota inspired game.