PrOak

Attack of the Arrogant Titles

from Demigod Forums

I've been working on a pet project recently. Basically it has started to really hit home that the best player combo is Beast and Sedna, and that quite generally, but the best two DG's are those two as well.

So, thinkest I, why am I tailoring builds around opposition that isn't that big of a threat? Why not try to make myself a silver bullet vs the two big bads?

 

Favor Item: Horn of Battle or Symbol of Purity

  1. Shield
  2. Soul Ward
  3. Soul Power
  4. Soul Ward
  5. Surge of Faith
  6. Penitence
  7. Soul Ward
  8. Divine Justice
  9. Save
  10. Soul Ward + Surge of Faith

So, this is a Minion build for the most part, with a side of Invulnerability.  Depending on the opposition, and style of the opponent, Horn of Battle or the Symbol is your go to item.   The Horn allows you to be a more focused Minion General, and swamp over sedna.  The Symbol + Shield allows to you fairly well negate the effects of spit.

The general thinking is that minions are strong vs sedna, and shield is strong vs beast, doubly so with symbol of purity.  So if you can combine these two effects, it doesn't necessarily make you the best DG out there, but it is at least going to make you a strong battler against them, especially one on one.

Items and other In Game Strategies:

 

This build actually has one of the more diverse item usage lists, mainly because depending on your edge, or lackthereof against the opposition, different things become important.  Let's distill it down to a few cases:

1) You have a slight advantage against a UB/Sedna pair

Your team is on the 'winning' side.  Slightly more kills, slightly more war rank. What items do you pick up to keep, and/or increase this lead?

  • Minion health buffs (Hauberk of Life, sigil of Vitality, Gladiator Gloves)
  • Mana buffs (Scaled/vlemish, maybe just a few mana pots)
  • Minion Idols (low ranks at least. You can spend~1000 on the two lowest level archers and minotaurs).

With more minion support, and more castings of Surge of Faith, you can rip apart structures, and keep harrassing enemy dg's even while you Lane elsewhere. This is strong at generating war score, and relies on the fact that you do not need to win a HP race, or are already winning it. Minions, especially if you went with the Horn, are very hard for these two DG's to handle (Even with ooze) so walk all over them.

2) You have a slight advantage against a non UB/Sedna pair

For instance Torch Bearer, Erebus, QoT. These may be strong minion-ers in themselves, or possessive of great AoE abilities.

  • +Health Items. AoE Effects are notoriously bad at doing strong single target damage, and also cost a lot of mana for that damage.  +Health will almost always extend your lead more than anything else.
  • Gank Items. Teleports, wand of speeds, etc. Items that let you get extra kills against a weaker foe.  You have an advantage against DG's that are probably simply not as strong as you are, increase it by killing them more often.

This is geenrally the no brainer scenario, and I think the one people default to.  Even against non AoE effects, HP are a good route to pickup. Point is though, you can't tele-gank someone stronger than you, so don't try this when losing!

 

3) Slight disadvantage against a non UB/Sedna Pair

Disadvantages are rough, and dealing with them takes patience, especially if they get big.  You need to not feed the opponent more, so survivability is key, but you also need to close the gap, meaning you need tricks and surprises.

  • Consumables. Saving up for another 2k item isn't always an option in this case, so you need to make the best out of your piddly pool of personal pay. Sigil of Vitality can work, but is costly, and no economical if you have no other HP ites. Healing Pots, Universal Gadgets, capture locks are all key here.  Sometimes you just need to make up a war score deficit, or NOT lose another gold mine, so keep locks in consideration.
  • Citadel Upgrades. This can be a good thing to get right when you notice a downward trend.  Tower health or damage, grunt strength, or additional waves of grunts (Priests) can often give you a fighting force that will help you in holding lanes, and driving opponents from them. I would generally upgrade grunt HP before getting more though, against AoE'ers like TB and QoT.
  • The ENTER key. Often times you are losing, and getting low on team morale, and then playing poorer, or not coordinating well.  Keep communication up and coordinate your attacks.  Call out your in combat targets, or notify others of a weak opponent.

4) Slight disadvantage against UB/Sedna

How do you deal with being outmatched by the best DG pair in the game?  Here's a few quick pointers:

  • Hit F10
  • Click on 'concede'
  • Okay, I kid, I kid. They are strong, but not unbeatable. Keep your wits about you, and do most of what is suggested above.
  • Difference here being that it is likely that you will be unable to kill them, especially if they are good, unless you can level up and item up.  It can often be that the worst decision you make is fighting fair with these two.  They heal, and have massively scaling damage output.  An ooze/spit beast does significantly more damage at level 7 than 6, so getting a level behind can be huge problem.

 

 

 

2,183 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

LE (minion) + Oak (minion) > UB + Sedna

Imho.

So, I guess, you are right. Than again, Horn of Battle needs a nerf. So, meh, yeah, thats all I can say.

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Best combos is beast and QoT :D

TouchTasks - Access tasks with ease on Windows touchscreens.
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

Well minion-horn builds are an autowin against anything right now, if you use the gay citadel-kamikaze tactics. Other than that I'd agree Sed/UB is the metagame.

Zech, imo you will have much more success if you design a pair to take down a pair, rather than design one DG and leave everything else vague. Still, I like this build. 1 point in Penitence for interrupts, 1 point in Shield for emergencies, and the rest dedicated to overpowering minion DPS. I think it probably start slow, but if you don't fall too far behind you'll start wrecking later on. If you can stand to micro those dumb spirits, that is. :|  

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Dark_River, reply 4
counters to eather Sed or UB make me a happy panda.   
End of Dark_River's quote

A hybrid torch that runs well...works :p

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

I like oak + UB combo better

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting X-Raider, reply 6
I like oak + UB combo better
End of X-Raider's quote
Agreed.  Sedna is overrated in tough matchups.  She loses steam when both sides know how to survive.

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Actually, I think sedna can scale well if you artifact and level up pounce. At lvl 16, she can get massive hp regen when she drops low, as well as gaining evasion and mvt speed when she pounces, on top of how lame healing wind 2 plus high priests are.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

TDude, I don't agree at all. Our teams have played UB/Sed vs LE/Oak twice (1-1), so I know exactly what tactics you are referring to when you say "knowing how to survive." I think this is a case of a character powerful at a lower level of play seemingly becoming weaker when its' opponents reach a higher level of play, but in fact becoming powerful again once the character in question is also played at a higher level. In this case, you guys had a nice attack combo and some neat defensive tricks, but after seeing it in action I know how I would try to stop it next time. In fact, looking back I'm a bit mad that we lost even one game, since it seems Sedna is so uniquely qualified to wreck the tactics you were using. 

I learned a lot from game 2 (the one we lost) so I really must thank you. Based on my current understanding of the game (which I actually substantially different than it was when those two games took place), I would say UB/Sed played as I would play them vs LE/Oak played in the manner you were playing them is at least a 7:3 matchup in favor of UB/Sed. 

Quoting pendrix, reply 8
Actually, I think sedna can scale well if you artifact and level up pounce. At lvl 16, she can get massive hp regen when she drops low, as well as gaining evasion and mvt speed when she pounces, on top of how lame healing wind 2 plus high priests are.
End of pendrix's quote

Well it depends on the situation, but actually I'd say in most cases Pounce and Life's Child are two of her least useful abilities late game. In large, long games, Silence 3 and Magnificent Presence 3 are money. Heal 4 is pretty sweet too, and of course, Wind 2 and Counter Healing are always great. Sedna can make good use of some of the more exotic artifacts (Deathbringer, Stormbringer, etc) but not so much the straight offense/defense ones. However, games almost never last that long. 

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

SoFFacet, I meant I prefer Oak as a partner for UB in 2s.  We play Oak/UB now instead of Oak/LE.  Beast is just too broken to ignore and is almost a requirement in premades.  The demi's around UB are preference and style.

As an aside, I'm not sure what special tactics you've made reference to a couple times in different posts.  We didn't have any particular survival strats in the games we played against you.  Our team put out more damage than yours, and sometimes we'd use our cooldowns well to survive but other times we'd get messed up.  That's both the advantage and disadvantage of Sedna, staying power but no big "I wins."

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

Just now I was referring to Shield + Robust Healing Potion, plus Bat Swarm although thats no longer relevant to your team. I suppose the same thing can be done with UB/Oak if you both carry Potions. That would be a tough team indeed, different in style but similar in effectiveness (to UB/Sed).