I rarely see QoTs and these almost exclusively use Ground Spikes and only Shield themselves which does not count as support.

This is my observation on EU servers, perhaps it's different on USA servers?

I know it's p2p, it's just that most of the time EU players and USA players don't mix.

Obscenitor, CelMare:

• Please post how often you play the QoT where you extensively Shield your teammates vs. how often you play Senda where you extensively Heal your teammates.
• Please post how often you get Shielded by a QoT in your team vs. the number how often you get Healed by a Sedna.

I am so very very curious.

lol EU and USA dont mix? Fail.

Obscenitor, I don't think minion damage ignores armor. That would be insanely cool(and OP), but right now armor nicely counters minions.

I'll do a formal test when we finish up this l4d round (gogo steam browswer).

*I did test out armor and you're right, though I posted it in the wrong thread

lifekatana: If your experience about USA - EU players mixed in games is different, I'm sure you can post that without sounding like a troll.

Obscenitor & CelMare: do you not want to or can you not post approximate numbers? I'm really just curious.

I don't know what you mean by extensively.  The last time I had a good QoT on my team I sent up against a very solid premade and we won because I was shielded every time we got into combat. Every time I've ever won with QoT she had shielded me when I needed it.

Here's what I don't understand:

You say that QoT only shields herself, implying shielding herself is worth the effort/mana, so I don't follow the logic that leads you to conclude that it's not worth shielding partners. The only reason why QoT wouldn't shield partners is because she's using mana on spikes, which leads in a better direction than a shield vs. heal comparison, which is a shield+spikes vs. pounce+heal dialogue.

Also let's be honest - sedna quite often doesn't really even have to heal because of the rank 3 priest idol bug, so to me the whole thing is apples to oranges.

I think that reducing priest heals via the rank 3 bug fix (and honestly I think the idols themselves should be nerfed too) will force sedna to heal more, which will result in greater mana consumption, which will reduce pounce damage output, which will help bring QoT up to speed given that her autoattack (if it weren't bugged) blows sedna's out of the water in utility.

I don't think you'd have gotten any argument at all really if you'd just said that QoT is less powerful than sedna at the moment, but trying to reduce the discussion of that disparity to a direct comparion between shield and heals is something most everyone will object to.

Explain? Afaik she has the weakest AA in the game. 

EDIT: Also, please explain why those quote brackets don't work.  I hate this forum so much. 

EDIT 2: I fail at spelling simple words. Go me. 

Cos' you wrote qoute, which isn't quite the correct way to write quote.

But wadda I know, English no is being first language.

Also if you look at her damage compared to the other ranged DGs' it's pretty reasonable.  It falls short of TB by a bit and is higher than reg's. Now of course that's neglecting things like increased ranged and damage from talents and the ability to reduce armor with spikes and then attacking. Once you get into skills and synergies everything gets a bit murky but on the surface I think her autoattack is fine and I would say it's probably least to blame for her unpopularity.

edit: this is all ignoring the current bug which can make her randomly target other units, I'm assuming 1.2 is going to fix that

Quick explanation, Quote != Qoute

QoT's autoattack is actually very good in closed mode. If you do it right you can hit 2-3 soldiers on average in the beginning. However, her AA has some annoying bugs: attacking Demigods out of range results in her attacking the nearest enemy; short delays in her attacks if you switch targets; long pause after using a skill.

Obscenitor: I do play the QoT as support and Shield my teammates a lot, but I don't see anybody else do it. In all my 130 games I met maybe 7 other Queens, all playing "assassin" with Ground Spikes except one(!) who probably just tried out a support build. In contrast to that, I met at least 50 Sednas who of course used Heal a lot. That's why I can't image why some of you here say Shield is better than Heal.

Well saying either one is better since the ability to remove debuffs at rank 3 heal is hard to quantify. If it weren't for that secondary effect I would confidently say that shields are better than heals because they don't overlap with priest heals (I've healed myself up to 90% health as and then been healed for 1300 by my priest a moment later) and can be applied before combat on multiple allies.

I think you see few support QoTs for reasons other than shield's deficiency. Shields are less intuitive and QoT tends to spend more mana on offense than Sedna. It's obvious when the correct time to heal is - when people are low on health, but with shielding you can easily waste mana. Better players will anticipate damage and then shields really shine.

I've never seen a spike assassin build that skips shield, though I've seen plenty of assassin QoTs who spend too much mana on spike wave and ground spikes to be able to cast shield on me reliably, but that's because of QoT's offensive setup, not her support/defensive setup.

Well part of the issue with shielding allies and attacking is that you have to switch between modes to do so.  There is a significant time lag in the transition.  You either stay in closed mode so that you can shield or you stay in open mode so that you can use the limited offensive power that you have.  Switching between the two reduces your damage output so much that if you want to do damage, you can't shield - or you are just too late to shield.  Not to mention that the mana costs for QoT guarantee being out of mana quickly.

Sedna is completely different in this respect.  Sedna has her pounce, silence, and heal without an transition time.  QOT shield may be "instant" but not when you count the transition time.

I also find that there is a huge misconception about the strength of the shield.  Teammates just seem to figure they can 1v2 or 1v3 the enemy if they have the shield.  Consequently, the shield drops in a blink of the eye and they scream at you for not putting up another shield (gcd issue) or not upgrading the shield.

Again I disagree, she is a DG killer, but she's got to be a bit sneakier about it... come in last, open already shielded... spike close, AA some while pets work mulch the low ones get other demigod low < 50% for 750 open spike for a bunch spike wave again (kill the poor bastard you weren't even targetting who was fleeing past you) and then run after (once the AA attack bug is fixed she'll easily kill some this way)  AND if you have the cloak of night warp with 4 shamblers on top open or closed for another 750 mulching or spike and WHAM WTF just happened... similiar to but different from the sedna Port pounce kill..

Lugh, if you actually tried out what you're babbling about here, you'd know that when using the Cloak of Night your Shamblers won't jump with you. Also try playing your "DG killer build" against any experienced team and save the replay. I'll be waiting.