Qot Conundrum

Well from my games with QoT i only think she needs fix's when it comes to late-game, maybe buff her aa? little more splash damage / damage on it after level 10? and buff spike wave? i think there are many things that can be done, was suggest to combine Compost and Entourage.

I believe one of the main reasons she cannot hold her own at high levels is because she has much lower stats than other demigods at this point, in a very similar way to TB.

Rook or UB on the other hand become incredibly powerful at later levels due to a natural stats advantage.

I don't think its her abilities. Lvl 10 you have ground spikes, bramble shield, spike wave. Lvl 15 you get the synergy one which is pretty good.

QoT should not be fleeing. Just use bramble shield, bishops, and 1 point in shambler and max mulch (late-game). It should not be possible to die unless you have purchased useless items. Its getting kills that she is not so good at.

TO FIX: Adjust the stat gains per level of certain demigods.




p.s. what happened to that patch that was announced by Kyro to fix stats?

From what I've seen I wouldn't describe it as underpowered.

Just looking at the skill tree though it is tough to decide how to spend your points due to the huge number of useless skills. 

Shouldnt that make it easier if most the skills are useless grab the ones that arent

offensive build you can take max ground spikes, spike wave + bramble shield, then lvl 11 put 1 point in shambler and lvl 12 13 15 points in mulch.

mulch + bishops + bramble shield = invunerable offensive QoT

you can even leave shamblers at base cos range of mulch is infinite

oo ... i didnt actually no that about range for mulch. yeh brambles was obvious for me but never invested in any minion skills (pro bad choice on my behalf), i try make something of uproot instead lol.

Yeah you could do that...or just play as Sedna and have even better survivability via Healing Wind + High Priests, Inner Grace, and Heal, in addition to your naturally higher health pool. You'll also be doing more damage with Pounce, hindering your enemies more with the interrupt from Pounce and with Silence, and you'll be supporting your temmates better with Heal, which is a bazillion times better than shield, and with passive healing auras AND with your super-Priests. Oh, and you'll be using much less mana and won't have to deal with cumbersome form-changing.

QoT is underpowered.

How does "a huge number of useless skills" not equate to "underpowered"?

Anyways, I find that QoT does tend to be weaker than the others. She either has to go Shamblers, which requires basically all her skill points to be effective, or go with a non-shambler build, which eats through mana at an insane rate. Even with Vlemish, Plenor, and Hungarlings, I found myself running out of mana very quickly. And it's not often you can afford to have even that much mana gear.

I play QoT alot.  Infact, she's probably my most played DG.  I don't necessarily agree that she's under powered post level 10 (though I used to think so).  If you look at things in a vacuum, this may be the case.  If she's so underpowered at 10+, why do people keep playing and winning with her?  My thinking on this is two fold.

1: At early levels, you're more able to hold a lane than other DGs.  This leads to more XP, gold, and possibly a destroyed tower or two.  You might even get a kill.  At mid levels (say 7-10) your ground spikes become absolutely devistating.  I'd argue that this is her best skill (and not bramble shield), and it continues to be effective well past level 10.  By level 10, you should have built up enough of an advantage that you have either won already, or have a definite gear/position advantage.

2: Post 10, she's still a threat.  Grab a Slayer's Wraps and perhaps a mageslayer if you can afford it.  Ground spikes a tower.  Watch it disintegrate to auto attacks.  Stick with your buddy DGs.  Use ground spikes, add some shamblers, buy some idols, move with your creeps.  You are magnifying everyone else's damage.

I don't get alot of kills with QoT, but I often lead the favor charts due to assists, creeps killed, damage, and structures.  In this way, I feel she's fine as is, but could use some variety in builds.

What I'd like to see is Compost granting a bonus % to health and mana regen.  Uproot is it's own problem.  I feel it's a waste to take it as a skill as a well used ground spikes works much better.  And you should already be taking that anyways.  I'd like to see uproot replaced with some sort of stun/inturrupt power.  Something QoT is lacking in (Only Reg and QoT lack it).

-- Tukulis

It's just stats that are the problem for late game.  In theory she should be able to stay in open form and pressure people.  Mitigation from Goddess is her only late game advantage, but without keeping up with stats then she's not catching up to other character's effective 'time to live' even with Goddess.

Change her level 15+ stats (HP and AA).

Tukulis ...

Yeah, she does have advantages as weve established, but shes only useful in early levels when ur WITH some other demigod. Shes not self reliant like sedna is or any other demigod for that matter. Chances r if u put a sedna and a qot to vs each other (for arguments sake, they both have exact equips and idols etc), Qot will have to fall back after a very short amount of time.
Its a team game, but how come Qot is the only one disadvantaged in this aspect of the game.

She can be good at taking out towers on her own when no other demigod is attacking her but the other team would be stupid to let her have this time. Majority of the games ive played, opposing team to this Qot always reacted very quickly to qots pushing or towers.

Ur implying here that ur getting a sufficient amount of gold to get everything u want. Really the only money u get would be assists (thats still quite a bit) BUT thats having to rely on someone else for assisting u in the first place.

Also, When i hear ppl talking about doing a full buff build  (minions + idols etc) and saying thats shes able to hold her own, what i really see is Minion Build = STALLING. She got no offense when trying to manage heal + shield + mulch + mana potion

Gold comes from a variety of sources.  Goldmines, Currency upgrade at Citadel, Creeps, Structures, and Enemy Kills.  It just doesn't flash the big message at you when you kill, say... a tower.  I believe towers are worth 300 gold each.  It all adds up.  As QoT, you're one of the top DGs around for killing minions.  Level 7+ Ground spikes will flat out kill anything except giants (unless the enemy has upgraded creeps).  If you're not getting enough gold it probably means one of two things.  Either you're not taking advantage of these sources, or you're losing.

As to QoT not being a threat to another single DG, all I can say is that I often am.  There aren't many builds around that can really threaten a good Sedna player 1v1.  My particular build QoT is a hybrid.  I max ground spikes, take only 1 rank in shield, 1 rank in shamblers.  The rest of my skills depend on my allies, their powers, and my enemies and their powers.  I go blood of the fallen, Vlem, Hauberk, Crown, Chestpiece with last item to varies depending on friends and foes (Slayers Wraps, Journeyman Boots, Unbreakable, something to boost minions).  For idols, I typically buy the lot at tier 1.

Also remember that a good team is fluid.  Push when no one's around.  Back off if you're in trouble.  Call in a teleport if there's a solid opportunity for a kill.  All really general advice that works well with any DG.  QoT is probably not going to win any 1v1 tournaments, but this really is a team game.  If you're a QoT and not working with your team, you're probably going to feel underpowered.

I guess all I can really say is that while I feel a couple of QoTs powers could use some work (Compost, and Uproot), and I feel Stats could use a bit of a boost, I still see QoT as competitive and reasonably balanced.

-- Tukulis

i agree with u on all parts here in the end. Ive done pretty well with Qot (more wins than losses with her) but i still feel she needs those fixes as many have mentioned with uproot and compost AND PLEASE her STATS.

so i think we have come to the conclusion that she DOES need a fix. Unless theres still ppl that want to argue that...?

I can't believe it but this single screenshot from a PuG vs. PuG game from a guy who has played the QoT in maybe 1 of 30 of his games has just proven that everything is O.K. with the QoT. Turns out it was the missing teamwork that's responsible for her extremely low play rate. Discussion is over.

/sarcasm

I've seen QoT rack up over 500k damage during a longer game, nearly double the next highest. She's not a bad Demigod, however I do feel that her Shamblers could use a little love. Just an observation though, I don't usually play as QoT.

I don't think qot is underpowered. I just think she's more difficult to play. I've played with qot on my team, and on the enemy team, and she is very good as a support dg. I once played against two qot (and an ub). It was friggin IMPOSSIBLE to kill them. They were constantly shielding each other, tactically retreating and watching each other's back (match was all randoms). All I can say is, when I see a Qot I don't say "haha, lol, free killing spree", but rather "better be carefull here".

On a more humorous note: A easy way to improve QoT is with a nude patch. That way players will get distracted, and make mistakes QoT can exploit. Would work for Sedna too, I think.

Fact is: She's quite good if you play her right and can be pure ownage in a PuG game. You will only see her shortcomings in matches against experienced teams. That's why there's not a single QoT in the 2vs2 or 3vs3 ESL ladders.

I love how everyone keeps saying QoT is good if you use TEAMWORK.

Guys. EVERY demigod is better if you work well with your team. That's how the game works. The difference is that every other demigod is good ANYWAY, not just if they are constantly surrounded by teammates. Yes, QoT's shield and ground spikes are helpful when used in tandem with teammates. But QoT's weaknesses weigh out her strengths so badly.

She can't support her team as well as Sedna.

Her AoE isn't as good as TB's.

Reg is better at soloing towers.

She fares poorly against every other demigod in a 1v1 situation.

She's squishy and her auto-attack is weak.

Her minions are far, FAR worse than Oak and Erebus's.

She does not gain any meaningful passive bonuses via her skill tree. The fact that she has a greater number of active skills than most DGs should make up for this, but unfortunately most of them are useless.

She runs out of useful skills at level 10!

She is insanely mana-dependent, to the point where you'll still be running out of mana after stacking Vlemish, Plenor, and Unbreakable Boots.

Even with Shield, her squishyness and slowness grant her very poor surivability.

She is hindered by the need to form-dance, which is slow and doesn't net her any rewards for her trouble. This is in contrast to TB, whose form-changing is faster, and he is granted meaningful bonuses for frequently changing forms.

She will consistently have the lowest gold on a team, due to being the only demigod that is nearly incapable of getting kills. And she needs that gold for all the mana-stacking she has to do.

Yes, QoT has some redeeming values. But you can't even tell me her short list of strengths can possibly outweigh this massive list of weaknesses.

wow scufo ... that is a very good sum up of her. 

everyone should read it !

scufo has it. Imho, they should return to her original design: closed is better armor and stuff shield, good surviveability, Open has super awesome spells but has NO movement, shes stuck till she changes forms.

This thread is in the wrong forum.

QoT is fine. QoT has the most staying power in the game when played right (as in using shield right keeps you from having to leave the lane).

Shield is proactive. (As in you and your team-mates can have shield on going into battle, which will usually turn the outcome of the battle every single time). 

QoT can do insane damage with the proper build. eg: Max shield, G spike, S wave, morale and have all 3 minion idols. Please note the amount of damage you take following a spike with this build.

Please note the amount of real damage you can DO to QoT who is cycling shields. If you do it right, your enemy will need to run every time to avoid dying (with the above build), and you have taken little real damage.

What else? Ground spike is such an awesome anti-creep ability that the only one who can compete for favor in grunts/damage is TB.

Ever try to run from a QoT with wave? You better be right if you think you can win the battle... otherwise you better teleport.

Hey, who has the awesomest eraly game tower crushing ability? QoT... and not with uproot. Try this. Ground spike to quickly clear enemy creeps so you have a full wave. Lead the charge to the tower with shield on so the tower targets you 1st. Stop at attack range. The creeps reach the tower, but the tower keeps hitting you. Cycle shields. That tower is going down.

Regulus' mines getting you down? QoT with shields and idols doubles as a mine sweeper.

What, it's hard to get kills with QoT? Well, when you are playing good players, it's hard to get kills with anyone..... this is a non-issue. What is important is you have staying ower, and the threat of killing someone without taking excessive damage in the process.

There are so many little known deails like all of this with QoT.

QoT is the hardest to learn to play and easiet DG to die with. But....... QoT is one of the best team DGs and 1on1 DGs with the proper build and tactics.

QoT is for good players, and giving her any improvements (except for shamblers) will imbalance her.

QoT is the hardest to learn to play and easiet DG to die with. But....... QoT is one of the best team DGs and 1on1 DGs with the proper build and tactics.

funny u should say that. coz she CANT fight 1v1. no matter how much u say "u just gotta use her right", doesnt change the fact that shes that little less efficient than any other demi. Whats shielding so often gonna do if u CANT cause an opponent back, because ur lacking the time to dish out dmg effectively. And im basing this around 1v1 because trying to argue this point under "team work" would be hard coz the situations vary greatly.

Also, why should this ONE demi be so hard to play according to you?

weve said it b4, she'll lose in a 1v1 against sedna. here's a list as to why, in all circumstances i can think of.

- ground spikes on sedna, removes conditions with heal.
- shield with qot will get drained very quickly with pounce
- sednas got advantage in flee situation, both trying to get out of battle and killing qot that tries to flee. thx to her passive movement increase. Yes, qot could slow her down but thats no problem for heal. Dont forget Silence activation upon flee.
- Silence can prevent qot shielding when near death. Qot cant interrupt.
- Qot changing form to heal and shield, takes away her offensiveness, taking away her push capabilities.
- Qot can only push forward when theres a team mate with you. Sedna can push by herself (heal + heal regen + pounce).
- If ground spikes gets nerfed (which i think some r trying to get it nerfed) to not being able to lower tower defenses, then shes lost whats going for her.
- Sedna can lower her cool down time. This allows her to heal, pounce, silence more often. This counters Qots offense and defense.

I'm comparing her to sedna because shes the other major support character. Which sedna clearly outshines Qot.

1v1 Qot vs UB.

- Spit in conjuction with AA will wipe out shield very quickly. Same with Ooze. Grasp is a nice heal for this combo.
- spike wave can slow UB down b4 qot tries to flee, UB's diseased claws and passive movement increase + Speed boost item practically negates that effect.
- If qot tries to defend herself all the time, UB will keep on attacking with no fear due to not getting dmg meaning Qots will have to retreat sooner or later.

1v1 Sedna vs UB.

- Spit and any other negative effect r no problem coz of heal.
- Increased movement speed to catch a fleeing UB, or for urself to retreat.
- Pounce/Silence, small chance to interrupt, can be used for fleeing also.
- Sednas health per sec will also help in a Spit-flee situation (if out of mana but enough leftover health to survive it).
- Sedna has one form, no time wasting when it comes to dishing out burst dmg.

Did these 2 comparisons to show which support character would play better when vsing a UB.

Please note the amount of real damage you can DO to QoT who is cycling shields. If you do it right, your enemy will need to run every time to avoid dying (with the above build), and you have taken little real damage.

TB will ruin this nearly everytime with AoE and burst dmg.

What else? Ground spike is such an awesome anti-creep ability that the only one who can compete for favor in grunts/damage is TB.

Sedna hasnt got one of these but her health per second counters unecessary dmg allowing her to do more important things.

Regulus' mines getting you down? QoT with shields and idols doubles as a mine sweeper.

But she cant push Reg because she has no time to attack. Reg will just stand out towr and drain away shield def or health in conjuction with Qot using up all her mana just to try protect herself. IMO, ud be stupid to waste ur shield on mines if u no where they r.

What, it's hard to get kills with QoT? Well, when you are playing good players, it's hard to get kills with anyone..... this is a non-issue. What is important is you have staying ower, and the threat of killing someone without taking excessive damage in the process.

Wrong. Results from alot of my games would contradict this. You wouldnt know coz you havent seen. Although i do find it exceptionally hard to get kills with Qot throughout an entire game on my own, and rook (but only very early game).
Is it coz they were noob that i killed them? maybe.
Is it coz they made a stupid mistake? only they would know.
Is it coz im good? You tell me.
We are human and these are bound to be the cause of one death or another.

There is a lot of crap in this thread but it's fair to say she has the greatest number of substandard skills of any Demigod in the game right now.