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Doubles -- what's the big deal?

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Doubles -- what's the big deal?

from Demigod Forums

On the subject of double demigods in games, I just don't get it.  The few times I have played against doubles, the doubling team has actually been at a *disadvantage*.   I think the fear is irrational over this one.  People think to themselves, "double reg that would be terrible!" and conclude it must be stopped at all costs.  But in practice, unbalancing your team with doubles seems to me to do you more harm than good.

I find this particularly annoying becuase I like to play with the random demigod option.  Lately, hosts panic at that and say, "no, that causes doubles." 

Sigh.

So, am I missing something?  I have been on both sides of doubled-teams and it is by no means a sure path to victory.  I've seen double rook, double reg, double UB, and been equally unimpressed by all (well not equally, double rook was really really bad, heh).

I'm sure I'll get flamed by those who've never actually tried it... but perhaps I'm being all pessimistic today.

 

demigod
35,256 views 85 replies
Reply #76 from Demigod Forums Top

[quote who="Ender" reply="71" id="2330777"]

Quoting CelMare, reply 59
beast stun is not a problem. there are many dgs with stunns. they all can be performed one by one. only snipe and only if there are more than 2 regs and only on the beginning levels.

Beast's stun is actually different than any other stun in the game.  It is the only stun that does not give immunity, so you could use 3 beasts and w/e other dg with a stun and have 4 back to back stuns with no breathing room for the victim.  Like I said though, I have yet to see a team really exploit this.
End of CelMare's quote

what's the problem with that? you can chain any other stun too! saw this several times, done this several times. no difference.

having doubles makes some skills double as good. that's blanaced cause you need TWO demigods.

Reply #77 from Demigod Forums Top

what's the problem with that? you can chain any other stun too! saw this several times, done this several times. no difference.
End of quote
Not true. If a TB hits Deep Freeze an then you Boulder Roll right afterwards the Boulder will not stun, you'll get an "immune" message. I've even had a Boulder fail because it hit a fraction of a second after Pounce.

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Reply #78 from Demigod Forums Top

since when? i was frozen, boulder rolled, and foul grasp wihtout interruption by premades several times. so i already experienced this. hear for the first time that there is a hidden debuff. never occured for me. allways was able to chain stun or to get chain stunned by different dgs.

Reply #79 from Demigod Forums Top

stuns share a DR

you cant stun the same char twice he will be immune (couple of "stun like" effects are out this rule)

 

how sad is talking about game mechanics with ppl that dont know a shit :(

Reply #80 from Demigod Forums Top

Bear in mind beast's stun isn't just unaffected by stun immunity, it doesn't cause it either. So when I'm with a UB I can use my boulder roll immediately after his stun and it'll stick.
So you could have four UBs for an 8 second stun, but you could also go regular stun > foul grasp > regular stun > foul grasp > reguluar stun.[/quote]

 

I've never considered that way of using Beast's stun.  That's interesting.

 

Over all, at least in my mind, the only issue with double/triple/etc DGs is the few abilities in the game that break the rules.  It's hard to quantify the over all advantantage of stacking these kinds of effects.  The only effects, that come to mind, that really break the rules are Reg snipe(most obvious), Beast stun(do to ignoring the stun immunity), Erebus tp(only really relavent on particular maps).  I can imagine scenarios where each of these abilities could be exploited if stacked, and being used by a strong team, but I have yet to see any real issues with them other than several games where I have exploited stacked Reg snipe/heaven's against teams that would have likely lost anyway.

Reply #81 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting CelMare, reply 78
since when? i was frozen, boulder rolled, and foul grasp wihtout interruption by premades several times. so i already experienced this. hear for the first time that there is a hidden debuff. never occured for me. allways was able to chain stun or to get chain stunned by different dgs.
End of CelMare's quote
Didn't happen, period. You may have been frozen then grasped then rolled, but the sequence you said doesn't work unless they paused briefly between stuns (stun immunity is very short).

Reply #82 from Demigod Forums Top

I used to have an issue with doubles.

Not anymore, though 5 regulus with full snipe *could* be a problem...

Reply #83 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Obscenitor, reply 67
I'm super bored so I wanted to point out that there are some abilities which have a unique force multiplier effect when doubled with themselves. Snipe is a good example, but ground Spikes is probably the best one.

Let's say we have a level 10 Sedna with just Nimoth's boosting her armor. She'll be at 1328 armor, which is 34% mitigation, aka she takes 66% damage from autoattacks.

If we hit her with one rank 4 Ground Spikes she'll drop to -172 armor, which is ~-7.4% mitigation, aka a 62% damage taken increase. Not bad.

But if we hit her with a second one we can drop her armor down to -1672 armor, which is -201% mitigation, a full 300% damage taken increase (from autoattacks).

So there's one example of a legit force multiplier from DG stacking...  and yet how many people here really care about double QoT? It's preposterous and it shows that people don't really care about balance when it comes to doubles, they care about being spammed with abilities they find annoying.
End of Obscenitor's quote

QoT is the least-played DG.  I didn't even know till this post that it has armor reduction.  Reg and UB are the most-played.  See where the discussion goes?  There surely other good combos.

UB: spit (and for some reason no one's mentioned how badly a multi spit can wreck towers, allowing easy map control), grab, slowing (there's only a couple items/skills with which you can hope to get out of their range once they've started hitting you)

Reg: range (wreck towers pretty well without taking ANY damage), snipe, mines

Sedna: Pounce Pounce Heal Heal Pounce Pounce Heal Heal walk out of your base over your dead body.  I see this one alot.  If they get in range of you, whether or not you have a partner in the lane with you, you're gonna die if they chose the right items

Rook: 2x blink, Boulder Roll, 2x Hammer Slam, 2nd Boulder Roll and slap if needed, towers all over the place to teleport anywhere needed (I haven't seen this, but I think it would be hilarious to gank people like that)

People keep saying double Regs suck, but I think they've been playing against some of the many noobs that don't even watch the DGs in the other lanes to snipe them.  Most of the Regs aren't very good, and it's usually GG if one of them is bad.

Reply #84 from Demigod Forums Top

QoT is the least-played DG.  I didn't even know till this post that it has armor reduction.  Reg and UB are the most-played.  See where the discussion goes?  There surely other good combos.
End of quote

UB: spit (and for some reason no one's mentioned how badly a multi spit can wreck towers, allowing easy map control), grab, slowing (there's only a couple items/skills with which you can hope to get out of their range once they've started hitting you)
End of quote
How is this harder to escape than Erebus+UB? Erebus is just as fast as UB and can apply a brief, heavy snare. Also night walkers wreck towers much more reliably than spit.

Reg: range (wreck towers pretty well without taking ANY damage), snipe, mines
End of quote
Double mines? Sounds great until people start just using potions in your face, that's what I do when there's no interrupt present. Also how are double mines more effective than spit+mines or any other combo?

Sedna: Pounce Pounce Heal Heal Pounce Pounce Heal Heal walk out of your base over your dead body.  I see this one alot.  If they get in range of you, whether or not you have a partner in the lane with you, you're gonna die if they chose the right items
End of quote
I'd take Sedna+minion swarm erebus over double sedna any day. Sedna+UB could stomp it too, and I guarantee I'd mop the floor with double sedna as QoT+Rook too.
Rook: 2x blink, Boulder Roll, 2x Hammer Slam, 2nd Boulder Roll and slap if needed, towers all over the place to teleport anywhere needed (I haven't seen this, but I think it would be hilarious to gank people like that)
End of quote
There's a good reason why you haven't seen it.

People keep saying double Regs suck, but I think they've been playing against some of the many noobs that don't even watch the DGs in the other lanes to snipe them.  Most of the Regs aren't very good, and it's usually GG if one of them is bad.
End of quote
Double reg is annoying until you have priests or monks. After that point it's no better than many other combos.

No one reasonable is arguing that doubles suck, they're arguing that doubles are no better than mixing DGs.

Reply #85 from Demigod Forums Top

I once did a tournament game with 2 UB (I was UB) vs 2 regs and honestly we beated the shit out of the reg team, they did double mines/snipes but it didn't stop us (as long as we didn't hump eachother) we just double spit a single target and take him down super fast.