Citadel Upgrades discussion

In some games I've played, I was surprised to see so much money was spent on upgrades. Usually think only the essentials are needed for most games.  Especially true with influx of new players.  If alot of money is spent on upgrades, you may not have enough money for creeps and equipment.

Core: Repair 1, Currency 1, XP 1, Creeps

Extra repair depends on map.  Large maps, may need another level or so, but again, players just gank a tower or Reg will snipe. 

Extra damage.  Pretty ineffective against groups.

Currency is good if have extra money to burn.

Minion damage.  One or levels when have giants.

Minion defense.  See above

XP.  One level is good.

Trebuchets, if map has alot of fotresses, it maybe worth it.

Creeps.  Wait till giants, or match what opposing team is doing?

I've seen games where the entire first 3-4 level up grades are bought.  I was wondering why teamates were not doing well against other players.  No equipment.

Thoughts?

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Reply #1 Top

One of the best counters to generals is to upgrade creeps...especially v Sedna and Oak...

 

 

Reply #2 Top

I agree that the later upgrades for some stuff just seems way too expensive for what it does. I especially don't get those death penalty ones. Paying almost ten thousand darrahs because they are planning on dying and want to respawn just a few seconds earlier doesn't sound like the most awesome plan.

The tower upgrades feel irrelevant late game (and prohibitievly expensive early/mid game) with how fast they go down anyway. I could see the creep upgrades being decent if you have catas or giants and it's still a stalemate.

Reply #3 Top

If you have good map control. getting Priests + Armory I (after Currency I, of course), will help a lot keeping the battle on their sides.

 You're getting heals, your priests are pushing their armies back, your priests are doing decent damage to towers while you are out doing more important things.

I spec to stay out as long as possible for the first five levels, so I typically have lots of cash when I get back and I'll get Currency and then some armor. Second trip it Priests + Armory == 3k. Against TB and other good AoE demigods I may invest a few hundred in Blacksmith since it marginally increases creeps' HP which means they will level up just a little slower.

If I get pushed back early, I will get tower HP since that means we are probably losing which means we NEED those Towers to stay up.


I rarely get XP. I play too strongly for map control rather than farming creeps to make it worthwhile. I'm typically in the bottom half of the number of creeps killed. (Though, to be far, hard to do that great with Sedna's no early-game AoE and complete lack of effective AoE).

Reply #4 Top

the XP upgrade can be vey useful fo some DGs. fo example take TB in cataract. one of my tactis is that around lvl 5 i buy the XP upgrade and 2 flag locks and go capture the middle flag. then all i do is go between the enemy towers and AOE both creep waves as they come. if i need to retreat (possible gank by enemy DGs) i lock the flag and run to my crystal. I do that for a few minutes and then Im lvl 12 way before everybody else.

Concening the currency upgarde, its more useful for larger teams and longer matches. sometimes i will take tower HP 2 instead or before the currency upgrade.

Reply #5 Top

Tower health: the regen is good early on in the game so that your front towers don't get whittled down; you'll have a tough time holding the flag in your lane if there's no tower nearby for cover and teleports.  You may wish to get level 2 if the other team holds neutral portals, since those put additional strain on towers (regarding neutral portals, let the enemy have them early game so that you can get extra experience when they suicide on your towers).

Tower damage: I haven't tested the "splash damage" but this doesn't seem worth it.

Reinforcement health and armor: not worthwhile until you get priests (and if it wasn't obvious, it's mostly for the purchasable reinforcements, not the wimpy regular guys).  Less worthwhile if the other team has good aoe.  I don't like to go past level 2 because you can get a pretty useful item instead.

Reinforcement damage: usually more useful than reinforcement health, as long as you kill the enemy reinforcements so that your own spend their time attacking DGs and buildings.

New Reinforcements: priests are very useful, but I think it gives the other team more exp, so you don't want to rush them.  Wait until you've spent like 3k on items, unless the other team gets priests before you were going to, then match them, since priests do push lanes pretty well.  Angels are expensive and fly around too randomly for them to be worthwhile.  Don't get them until you're ready for catapults.  Catapults aren't very good unless you're still getting to enemy towers; if you're pushed back too far, spend your money elsewhere until you're at enemy structures.  Giants are awesome, and where reinforcement health really kicks in; get them asap.  Unfortunately, if the other team has Giants more than a few waves before you, you're most likely going to lose.

Mint: Oh yeah!.  You can get the first 2 levels, but the 3rd I'm sure usually isn't worth it because games usually don't last long enough.  If you're getting these, you want them early so that you end up making more money off them.

DG exp: I don't think this is worth it unless you've got extra gold to spend.  With better items or other stuff, you'll be staying in lanes longer (run back for health/mana less) and getting more exp out of it anyways.

DG death penalty: I THINK (not positive) that I noticed recently that you don't get gold while dead.  If that's true, this MIGHT be worth it because besides getting back in the action slightly faster, your team would be losing out on less gold (especially with mint upgrades) when they die, which would add up.

Building Upgrades: Trebuchets I don't feel are worth it unless you've got fortresses within range of enemy structures, because they can take them down at a decent rate.  I don't know the exact mechanics of the Finger of God, but it seems too random to be worthwhile.

Hope I'm not forgetting something.

So pretty much my general recommended order would be:

tower health 1, mint, priests, reinforcement damage 1, reinforcement health 1, reinforcement damage 2, reinforcement health 2, mint 2, angels, catapults, giants

If your reinforcements are getting owned by DGs, get mint 2 earlier and reinforcement health and damage later.  Throw items in there based on what you really need for your build, and when your warscore isn't high enough for the next upgrade.  More money (from kills) should be translated into better items or consumables, not sooner upgrades, with the exception of mint.

Edit: I've found myself recently just rushing mint (currency) upgrades.  Don't even worry about priests unless you're getting harassed a lot.

Reply #6 Top

exp1 on WR2 seems to translate to about 1-2lvl gain at ~lvl10 this is quite good for just 1200g

I counter priests with exp2, i get really happy when enemy goes early monks, sure I cant be as aggressive, but heck does that 5lvl lead win the game :P...just remember to keep the exp flag.

Reply #7 Top

How can the exp 1 upgrade give you 1-2 levels at level 10? The upgrade give you 10% that can not possibly result in a 2 level differance at level 10.

Reply #8 Top

hmm, isnt it 10% a lvl, or even more so, 10% each kill, making it stack?

I dont have a clue how much xp you need for each lvl, otherwise i could calculate it, but just speaking of a general in game feeling, we seem to lvl a good amount faster when we have it.

Even more fun when you get exp 2 later on when there are more creeps, you will get 20% more xp for EACH kill.

 

Reply #9 Top

I look at it this way - upgrading creeps is like fighting an infection with overuse of antibiotics.  Sure, it'll work in the short term, but you're just going to make anything you don't kill stronger.  While any strategy can win in the right situation, I usually start off planning to rush for gold, then xp, then upgrade creeps once I've already pushed into one side of the enemy base, preferably when I think I'm about to lock a portal.  I don't see how tower upgrades can really make enough of a difference vs decent players, but I suppose creep upgrades could break a stalemate if everyone is fully upgraded otherwise and there's still no end in sight...