Way too late for that...6 races each with their own unique tech trees. Also, to the extent that ship and planet module abilities are done they are mostly unique though there has been a certain amount of recycling from SoaSE and there are some common techs/abilities along the Younger (Narn, Centauri, EA) races.

I think maybe you misunderstand me?

I am 'only' talking about the home planet population stuff and how it was mentioned the Vorlons and Shadows could abuse this. Just make an ability for the Vorlon, and an ability for the Shadow, that right off the bat without research gives them say a 75% reduction on the population caps of their planets. This solves the problem of having 'custom planet homeworlds' for each faction that could fall into other players hands (Remember, factions can shift their capitol planet around and if a Vorlon captured a Narn homeworld (as example) how would that work?).

I don't want to combine the tech trees, I like the six distinctly different ones.

An ability on a planet is a bad idea since that means if one of the Younger Races manages to take that planet from the Vorlons or Shadows they're stuck with the massive hit to population and can't get any bonuses from occupying the Vorlon homeworld since otherwise the Vorlons would get it too.  Like I said above, a research subject for the Elder Races (Vorlons, Shadows, Minbari) that has a negative baseValue entry for maximum planet population (this means at game start they'll be suffering from reduced max populations) which is then reduced through actually researching the subject is the best way to cripple the Elder Races at game start.

Hi,

Still haven't read all posts, but wanted to give notice that I've checked in 0.43RC1

Thanks guys, give me thumbs up or down depending if there are any critical showstoppers.

Tobias

^ This.

Tobias the more I consider increasing the resource costs of the Fleet logistic tech levels is an effective means of slowing both Vorlon and Shadow fleet size. While high ship costs will act to slow ship procurement having a high bar to increase the levels of fleet logistics will also serve to slow fleet size. Thoughts?

What is your proposal? Make researching fleet logistics more expensive? Make ships cheaper? Both?
The risk I've noticed when making research like fleet logistics more expensive is that is sometimes stalls the AI.

Also, that would need to wait for 0.45, as I'll first want to get to rebellion and this is not critical at the moment (but still important though).

Works, thanks. Will be in 0.43RC1.

Just a thought i had, dont know if it helps you guys or you've already decided; but ive figured the factions out for rebellion for each race.

EA - Clarks regime/Sheridans view

Minbari - Delenns help them all/The pre-war isolationism

Centauri - Shadow allies/Rebelled against as Londo did

Narn - Aggressive, [LONDO] Barbairians [/LONDO] not very nice, akin to season 1 Narns/ G'kars support the other races view.

Vorlon - Fight with the younger races / It is not yet time.

Shadows - Move cautiously / all out bloodbath.

I've had similar thoughts. First, Vorlon and Shadows would be the factions of the elder races (light side - order/dark side - chaos).

Other than that I'd had Minbari as reformed council and ISA vs. warrior brutes and religious zealots (with bioweapons from Jha'dur)

Centauri as we can do it ourselfs (lion of the galaxy) vs. shadow and drakh controlled/supported

Narn could be as you said expansionism and revenge vs. enlightenment and defense (+ ISA)

I've had another idea though and might consider that as the better option (or we could do a vote on that):

Faction 1 as Human played races vs Faction 2 as AI optimised races

New artifact & planetary bonuses are undergoing testing, first two already found.

Mutai Arena: Terran & Desert planets, +25%trade, +0.5/sec tax, +25% culture

Quantium-40 Deposits: Asteroid & Volcanic planets, +35%trade, +1.0/sec tax, +35% metal, +10% crystal, -25% growth rate

Dilgar War Memorial: Terran & Desert planets, +35% culture, +25% trade, -30% growth rate.

Q-40 bonus has a generous tax/trade increase to compensate for the small populations of the host planet.

I'd be up just for having the 6 races again but utilizing some of extra tools that Rebellion offers. Ship-wise and Tech Tree wise I think it would be 'harder' to differentiate the 6 races into 12 races ... let alone with any unique ships.

In Rebellion, it might just be worth having an in-game section of the tech tree where you can pick 'either-or' for the 4-8 or so unique techs for 'Loyalists' or 'Rebels'. This has been done in a few other mods and is entirely do-able. You wouldn't have 12 races to pick from up front, just the 6. But each could further be customized by allowing the player to pick a certain path at some point in the tech tree for a few unique bonuses (i.e. Shadow Tech EA ships or not). It would certainly keep everything simpler I think.

Here are some planetary bonuses I thought of off the top of my head. Hopefully they could be usefull. I tried to find sources for their inspiration where I could. I'll have some more over the next few days.

List of Planetary Bonuses:

-Resonance Fractures (Ice Planets & Asteroids): +20% crystal, +10% Trade , -10 Population (Crystal is easier to mine and sell, unstable crystals in the planet's crust reduce the places people can live).

-Deep Gravity Well: Gravity Well Radius +40%

-Porous Core: Gravity Well Radius -20%, -10% crystal, -10% metal

-Organic Artifacts: +25% Culture Rate (based on Season 1 Episode 4)

-G'Quan-Eth Plants: +25% Culture, +25% Trade, +0.5/sec Tax (Season 1, Episode 12)

-Dock Worker Union: +10% Hull Restore Rate, +10% Trade, -0.5/sec Tax (Season 1, Episode 12)

-Centauri Relics: +10% Trade, +0.5/sec Tax (Season 1, Episode 13)

-Defense Network: Tactical Slots +5, +10% Weapons Range

-Temporal Fluctuations: -10% Trade, -10% Weapons Range (Season 1, Episode 20)

-Morden's Promises: +10% Weapons [For Friendlies], -5% Weapons [Enemies] (Season 1, Episode 22)

-Drazi Dispute: -10 Population, -20% Growth Rate

-Rogue Telepaths: -0.5/sec Tax (Season 2, Episode 8)

-Earth Force Marines: +25% Resistance to Bombardment (Season 2, Episode 10)

-Ranger Enclave: +10% Resistance to Bombardment, +10% Culture (Season 2, Episode 9)

-ISN News Hub: +25% Culture, +10% Growth Rate (Season 2, Episode 15)

-Markab Plague: -20 Population, -20% Growth, -1.0/sec Tax (Season 2, 18)

-Alien Inquisitor: -0.5/sec Tax, -5% Trade (Season 2, Episode 21)

-Trade Hub: +25% Trade, +0.5/sec Tax

-Dust Dealer: -0.5/sec Tac, +10% Growth Rate (Season 3, Episode 6)

-Parasitic Aliens: -10 Population (Season 3, Episode 7)

-Nightwatch: -15% Culture Spread Rate, +15% Population Growth Rate (Season 3, Episode 8)

-Martial Law: -10% Population Growth Rate, +5% Trade (Season 3, Episode 9)

-PSI Cop Outpost: -10 Population, +5 Tactical Slots (Season 5, Episode 6)

-Telepath Colony: +10 Population, +15% Growth Rate

-Brakiri Festivals: +10% Growth Rate, +0.5/sec Tax, +20% Culture Spread Rate (Season 5, Episode 8)

-Pirate Raiders: -15% Trade, +10% Weapon's Firing Rate (Season 5, Episode 15)

-Cult of Personality: +20% Growth Rate, +10 Population, +0.5/sec Tax (Season 5, Episode 19)

-Civilian Defenses: +10 Resistance to Planet Bombing, +5/sec Hull Repair Rate

-Targeting Network: +5% Weapons Fire Rate

-Orbital Infrastructure: Structure Build Rate +33%

-Orbital Docks: Hull Repair Rate +5/sec

-Entertainment Hub: Culture Spread Rate +15%, Tax +1.0/sec (Based on Entertainment Hub from game)

-Orbital Commerce: +10% Trade, +5 Logistics Slots

-Cavern Systems: Max Population +20, Planet Health +750 (Based on Habitable Cavern System)

-Terraformed: Trade income +10%, Planetary Population +500 (Based on Expert Agrarian Society)

-Fertile World: Trade income +15%, +0.5/sec Tax

-Minbari Miners: +40% Crystal Extraction Rate (Based on Expert Crystal Miners)

-EA Miners: +40% Metal Extraction Rate (Based on Expert Metal Miners)

-Ionic Storms (Volcano & Desert Only): Max Population -20, -10% to Weapons Range (Based on Ionic Storms from Sins)

-Minbari Artifacts: +20% Trade Income (Based on Kalanite Deposits)

-Massive Glaciers (Ice & Terran Only): Trade Income +10% (Based on Massive Pure Glaciers from the game)

-Mega Fauna (Non Asteroids Only): Max Population -15, Trade Income +15% (Based on Mega Fauna from the game)

-Natural Thermal Lifts (Desert Only): Structure Build Rate +20%, +15% Growth Rate (Based on Natural Thermal Lifts from game)

-Penal Colony: Structure Build Cost -50% Build Cost, Buildings take 50% longer to build. (Based on Penal Colony form the game)

-Pirate Outpost: -10% Trade, +1.0/sec Tax (Based on Plundered Booty from game)

-Pirate Hub (Pirate Base Only): +2.5/sec Tax (Based on Plundered Booty from game)

-Shallow Gravity Well: -33% Gravity Well Radius (Based on Porous core from the game)

-Industrial Outpost: Extra Constructors +2 (Based on Raiders Outpost)

-Frontier Outpost: +10% Metal Extraction Rate, Extra Constructor +1 (Based on Raiders Outpost)

-Drug Trade: Cultural Spread Rate +10%, Trade income +10% (Based on Spice Trade from game)

-Spice Trade: Cultural Spread Rate +5%, +1.0/sec Tax (Based on Spice Trade from game)

-Tundra Farms (Ice Only): Max Population +25, +5% Growth Rate (Based on Tundra Farms from the game)

-Toxic Waste (Dessert / Volcanic Only): -15 Population, +0.5/sec Tax

-Weapons Test Facility: Max Population -20, Tactical Slots +5 (Based on Weapons Test Facility from the game)

-Cultural Center: +20% Cultural Spread Rate

-Resistance Fighters: -5% Weapons Fire Rate, -5% Hull Repair Rate, -10 Max Population

-Unstable Mantle (Non Asteroids): -15 Population, -1000 Planet Health

-Strong Magnetics: Anti-Matter Recharge Rate +15%

-Debris Field: Weapon's Ranges -15%

-Incorporeal Fauna: -10 Max Population, +10% Trade

Artifacts:

The Great Machine: +25% to Research?

-Weapon's Schematics: +10% Weapons Fire Rate, +5 Weapons Damage (Season 3, Episode 1)

-Terrorist Attacks: -20% Trade, -0.5/sec Tax, -10% Growth Rate

-Shadow Weapons: -25% Culture Spread Rate, +10% Weapon Damage, +5% Firing Rate (Season 3, Episode 14)

-Lorien: +25% Resistance to Bombing Damage on all planets? (Season 4, Episode 2)

-Frozen Telepaths: +25% Research? (Season 4, Episode 17)

Thoughts? Use and tweak and change them as you wish.

Good gerief!! That'll keep me busy for a while, cheers boshimi!

I've already done the G'Quan-Eth bonus and will be available in 0.43.

Great Machine is on my todo list, I could see it being a bonus of Rebellion's 'Occupation victory'.

How is either-or research done? I though one cannot do that?

Looks overwhelming. Giving a % bonus to HullRestoreRate won't do any good though, as most ships have no HullRestoreRate.

You can already consider everything Rebellion has to offer for the bonuses, as 0.44 will be rebellion compatible.

About the Alien Parasites:
First off, the Vindrizi are not parasites, they are symbionts.

They give the host knowledge and health in exchange for "hitching a ride" and they only take volunteers as hosts. Neither are they harmfull to the host if the host is healthy. The one who died in the series died (together with the Vindrizi who tried to get into his body) because of all the chemicals that the host (a drug addict) had coursing through his blood.

They are also very few and nomatic, meaning they wouldn't have any negative effect on the planet's population.

But with all the knowledge they have accumulated they might make a nice artifact boosting research and/or phase lane speed (they travel a lot so they ought to know good travel routes).

Hi, just noticed that the dockyard's repairability is too strong. Is there any way to make the ability only apply to ships not in combat?

Yes, change aiUseTime "Anytime" to aiUseTime "NotInCombat". I also noticed that, in addition it fires even there is nothing to repair in the AoE which depletes the AM rather quickly and is a challenge to manage as the empire grows. Centauri, Narn and EA I can confirm have this flaw though it may apply to all. The ability files look good so I'm left scratching my head.

I've found no show stoppers but full testing would take a lot more time.

0.43 has some issues but is still a significant boost over 0.42 and we have kept our supporters waiting long enough. Let's publish then plan on one additional patch to address the issues we haven't found yet before beginning the headlong conversion to Rebellion. I'm opening a new ticket "Build f4830 pre-0.43 release" with the issues I've found so far but none is bad enough to prevent launch.

Not so sure it's easy to do hull restore rate with a planet bonus, plus for younger races it's practically zero. However I do like this one, so it'll end up as

* Docker's Guild: Trade +40%, module build rate +25%, tax -0.2/sec, module cost +10%, logistic slots +4. ie; skilled workers deserve a bigger slice of the pie, but they do a better job so you end up better off. Suitable for most planet types.

Another one that was the basis for inspiration:

* Minbari Worker Caste Commune: Crystal +30%, logistics slots +4, pop +20, module build rate +25%.

Minbari worker caste are experts at orbital construction, crystal extraction & build excellent habitats in low temperature environments. Ice planets only. Basically these guys got fed up of getting caught up in the arguments between the warrior & religious castes and cleared off to find some peace and quiet.

As a negative bonus I quite like the 'Drazi Dispute', maybe give a positive culture boost so it's not all bad - it's just asking for a green & purple icon! 

* Drazi Dispute: -10 pop, -20% growth rate, +20% culture. Desert planets only (Drazi homeworld was quite hot & dry IIRC).

I did like the original proposal for Rebellion where you chose your rebel or loyalist colours via research, Lavo_2 & ZombieRus appeared to have a bit of play in this thread, not sure how far they got.

BTW, Feeling any better Tobiwahn?

If you guys are aware, the Maelstrom mod for Rebellion (Dip/Ent etc before) has this cool feature where planets go through phases of instability, they reduce Pop growth/limit/income etc etc

As your going to port to Diplomacy in .44, wouldnt it be better to incorporate all the pkentary stuff in that release, where its viable to add in planet based factors that arent a permanent ball and chain around the player that is experiencing them?

Also, after reading some of the juicier parts of The Dilgar War fanfic again (400th time i think :p ) i am waiting in great anticipation for the LONAW races and a Dilgar faction at some point

Well, 3,5 years and we still don't have the basic 6 races so expect them around 2030 earliest

@Davroth
Commited 0.43RC1 to BitBucket. After your tests I will ready it for download.

I added a few more issues discovered when working on another ticket and trolling the entity files.

Lavo2 or ZombieRus5 might be better able to answer this question as I believe one or both have incorporated this into their mods. It involves setting the Faction ID which controls what can be researched or not researched on the tech tree once a 'sub-faction' is picked (i.e. Loyalist or Rebel). I know for a fact that it works, as for the specifics, Lavo or Zombie would be the best to answer it.

Also, for the Planetary Bonuses think of them more like 'heavy suggestions' and feel free to tweak them however. The more planetary bonuses the better. It helps avoid the 'If I research I get this or this' and changes it to 'I could get any one of these eight things ... yay!'.

Vindrizi Colonists: +20% Culture, +20% Trade

Also, came up with a new one too!

Modulated Weapons: +10% Weapons Fire Rate/Damage [Ally], -10% Weapons Fire Rate/Damage [Enemy]. This would simulate a section of space (gravity well) that has unusual properties that the defenders that own the gravity well would know to modulate their weapons systems to accommodate it. Attackers would not know to do this.

In my mind, anything that adds adventure, excitement, and a bit of balanced 'chance' to things like Planetary Bonuses, and custom Militia templates (which I am more than willing to do once we get the rebellion release out in the future) breathes more life into the B5 world, and really increases the immersion. Planetary Bonuses on a large part are 'good', you just don't know what 'kind' of good until you go digging for them!

I've used it to lock players out of one of their race's two Titans. I have also found that Vicious and Cruel AIs (the two hardest) basically bypass this dynamic. ZombieRus has gone much farther than I have, in regards to this function.

I'm not so sure culture spread gain is fitting for the Drazi conflicts (other races tend to be quite annoyed by it, or as Ivannova put it "While some others might not mind if you killed each other, even they would prefer you do so quietly"), but maybe it could increase the weapon damage and hit chance for friendlies.

After all the purpose of the green vs purple fight is to make sure that the best fighters and strategists of the Drazi are in controll.