I pug most of the time, and only pre on the weekend.  And my premade team generally consists of two people who don't play all that often. They are good players, but obviously not super experienced. So why don't I play more games with people I meet online?

Honestly, I just don't have the luxury. It isn't easy to start chatting with someone after a game ends, even if it was a good game. You have to remember how to spell their name, add and send a message, and hope they respond.  I think if DG had inherit voice chat it'd be much more common (Or even a simpler buddy system).

I also get a little tired of the elitism that generally make up a premade community.  I really enjoy trying out new things with builds and play styles... but most people seem to want so badly to win they get really angry if you do anything different. I can get away with that much more when I pug.

People don't want to invest time only to lose.

Trying out new strategies is the best path to victory in the long run however. Besides, I'd rather play a variety of different interesting games, than the same one over and over again.  I didn't like Big Game Hunters either .

What the hell is a pug, or pugging?  Just curious.....

PUG is a pick up game.  Its generally people who simply join a game and get playing.

Some of that certainly does occur.  I personally don't have a problem with trying out builds and like to do that as often as possible myself.  I'd ask you not to do that if we are up against a really good premade, but beyond that, its fun to try new builds imo. 

Ok… so, just putting together a lot of the responses:

Why don’t you form a premade?

1. It’s inconvenient
   1. The people you’d like to form a team with aren’t online when you are
   2. I like to just get a game in and move on (I don’t have time to wait for my premade teammates to finish a game)
   3. A pug can typically get a game going in 3-5 minutes; it takes longer if you are a premade
   4. Trying to get your teammates on vent can be a pain in the butt
   5. The games built in infrastructure doesn’t make it easy to play with the same guys regularly
   6. There is no team auto-match feature
   7. There is no tool to help people form premades automatically
2. Community outcry 
   1. A premade is fine IF they only play other premades, aren’t tricking people into playing them, etc
   2. Premade are generally viewed in a very negative light
3. StAck3D_ActR is playing HoN
4. Localized connectivity issues
5. Some individuals simply like playing with random players best

I’d like to address a few of these. 

Regarding incovenience

it wasn’t all that difficult for me to get a premade started and keep it alive.  I kept joining games that Kokujin and Kassaum hosted and eventually got on voice chat with them and played with them most of the time.  Boom.  I’m part of a premade.  So if any of you are wanting to go the premade route, I’d say keep joining custom games hosted by the same players and get on their team if possible.  Some just don’t want to form teams, but I’m reasonably sure that many would enjoy forming a premade. 

With a premade as big as mine, I don’t really have any issues waiting for someone to free up to get a game in with them.  Someone is typically free.  I formed my 1^st premade based on who was typically playing at the same time as me.  I’d just hop on their vent server when I was free and ask them if they were in game, if so, when will you be done, and last, are you interested in playing one with me afterwards.  Then I’d just browse the forum/internet while I’d wait for them to free up. 

It often does take awhile to get a game in if you are a premade (this is a pretty reasonable complaint and a good reason to steer clear of premades of joining a premade).  This gets worse based on how big you team is.  A 5v5 game can take a LONG time to fill, but games fill up faster with less players.  This is probably more unique to my premade as its fairly well known (eg if you are just starting a premade, you probably wouldn’t have any shortage of people willing to join your games). 

Consider that a premade is usually a group of 2-4 players.  As I proved with my XvX Vent bal games (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/365726), it was somewhat painful to get people up and running using ventrilo.  It took about an hour in one instance just to get 6 additional players up and running with vent.  BUT – keep in mind that a premade isn’t constantly reconfiguring ventrilo.  A one time setup is all that’s needed and you need not bother with that again.  Another thought regarding those XvX vent bal games – if I was attempting to start another premade, I’d wager that I could have created another 6 person one just on the basis of people enjoying playing together.

While the game’s infrastructure doesn’t do all that much to get you and a premade team in a lobby, using voice chat does.  And quite well at that.  I say, I’m hosting to my premade.  They join.  I hold slots in the lobby for them as needed.

Pacov, You know I am a pug player who has no problem with honest premades.

I would not mind having some friends that I play with regularly in a "premade".  I dont htink the issue is that most of the pugs dont want to have a set team, but rather its honestly not woth the minimal effort.

Seriously its not alot of work to make a team, and find friends.  As it stands I have had some god games with some people and I put notes to that effect. But for me, I honestly dont care that much about "online friends".  I just want to play the game, and have some decent matches.  Its not that I dont have time to do it its just aht to me (and many pugs out there) It just is not worth it to us.

A final note:  This is a bit off topic, but the real solution as mentioned earlier is for all player to realize this is a TEAM game.  Minimal chat communication can be sufficent, such as Always target X first, or left side/portal takes priority.  If peopel would quit playing for themselves, It would be better for everyone.

Fair enough, tperge.

Ya, I read and finished your post.  I've also played with you in a game where you contributed to my collection of quotes.  You called us all idiots in game and asked us to kick you if we ever see you in a lobby again.  You then ragequit, causing another teammate of yours to leave with his game no ruined.  The guy left behind tried to make the best of it but just couldn't do anything with 2 ai.  You ruined the game for your teammates.  http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1021949/player/36232/

Why, oh why, would I join a pug game to lose some games and be frustrated about people's stupidity?  Those sound like excellent reasons to find some friends who aren't stupid and play with them.

I would say I'm far from incognito though, as you seem to think I am.  All those quotes come from on these forums, in lobby, or in game.  People constantly join my lobby, say "uh oh, it's rawrrrr and kalelsmx.. bye" or something equally as silly.  Here's a great example of that:

The funny thing is even if people form a "premade" (for the record I hate this god damn awfully annoying term) no one plays against each other because of how 1990s the Demigod online interface is.

Agreed, Poly... me hates the term too, but oh well. 

Even I can agree that the term doesnt fit.  Usually they are just friends, if even that.  Perhaps with clanwars (if that ever happens) real teams may actualy form.

lol 10-15 people isnt a premade really. They are your friends or your clan members or whatever u want to call it.

Seriously since i started playing this game i have seen the term premade more than anywhere else.

But i have accepted it and use it as ppl do.

A premade is a team who always play together ONLY (lets say 3, 4 or maybe 5 people) IMO. But since every1 screams premade for the 15 ppl in pacov's team or other teams, then premade i guess.

Because I'm just a casual player.   

I've used voicechat and have been part of premades, but I got turned off for a few reasons.  The first reason is that it seemed like, unless we were doing an inter-clan fight, we always fought low-skilled PUGs who didn't know any better and got stomped.  That wasn't that fun.  The second reason is personal: judging from the voices I heard on Vent, I am an older player in the Demigod community (34).  I have a wife and a demanding career, and while it's fine to play a couple of games of Demigod in the evening, I don't want to put a headset on and isolate myself from the rest of the house.  The third reason is my experience was that the people who use Vent were too hard-core for my tastes and cared too much about winning.  I couldn't relate, and, I had no desire to subject to myself to hearing a teenage basement dweller who yelled and whined like his balls were being cut off just because a flag wasn't locked within 5 seconds of when someone demanded it, or because a heal didn't come in at the right time.

These are just my personal experiences.  I'm sure there are pleasant premades out there somewhere, who don't care about losing. 

I have no doubt that only dedicated premades can make full use of the strategic potential of the game.  For example, playing exclusively as a PUG definitely skews you to take Erebus, Sedna, UB or Oak because you need to be as self-sufficient as you can, and can't count on your teammates supporting you well.  But it's still fun playing in all PUG games, as long as you don't care about losing. 

By the way, PUGs are not blameless here.  I can't tell the number of times I've been in games where PUG players tried to stack teams based on win/loss records.  I can understand the motivation- no one wants to play alongside a noob- but it's still embarassing.  The times when I've asked players to mix up teams, no one has ever taken me up.

I picked up Demigod because I thought it had space for casual players as well as hardcore players.  Wasn't that how it was marketed?   Maybe the real problem isn't PUGs vs. premades, it's that the community is too small and the interface isn't set up effectively enough to segregate hardcore vs. casual players.  (By casual, I do not mean Noob players, who don't know what they're doing.  I mean PUG players of moderate skill who know the basics but don't have time/inclination to do anything outside the game lobby).

QFT!

There were plenty of AUS premades when the game was released.

Many left before the connection issues were fixed, many left because of the QQ from people at losing, many left because of the <10 3 man teams there were only 3 or 4 that were really good to play against, I think a lot simply got bored with playing cataract over and over again.

I completely agree with this.  BUT - acknowledging that, we have no control over directly fixing the problems within the game.  There's no individual/team ladder distinction, no logical segmentation based on skill, the only matchmaking service provided is more interested in balancing based on team (light/dark) instead of skill, and so on. 

So, what can we do to make things better for all if we can't get the game itself changed?  If things stay as they are, then I suggest forming more premades so that there is more competition and availability of games amongst those that want to play the game as a dedicated team.  For me (AND I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR ME), I'd play about 90% of my games in premade v premade if it were possible.  That currently isn’t possible – especially when you factor in that some premades, as some have mentioned, aren’t interested in a challenging game.  The other option is to dissolve premades, but then you’ll still have PUGs that stack teams to run over their competition.  I understand that not everyone wants to be part of premade (and for many – for good reasons), but I do think its hard to argue that playing as a premade team is not the highest level competitive play in this team game (eg I’d argue that if 3 great pug players v 3 great premade players played, the premade team would always have the advantage). 

Another thought… how strange it is that skirmish mode was dropped instead of pantheon.  Because of the light dark distinction, the only chance we had at OK matchmaking has been lost.  I’d personally say let’s drop pantheon, reinstate skirmish, change the matchmaking to balance based on total games played and hide the connectivity screen when match making is occurring.  This would enable PUGs to potentially get reasonably balanced games going.  It would also end people joining panth and then dropping in the lobby OVER AND OVER AND OVER until they get the matchup they want.  No voice chat, but still, it would be something.  Currently, Demigod’s ladder is setup to cater to pugs (logically), but favors premades completely. 

oh my, i had the same thought when it happend. wtf did they thought when they done this stupid thing.

absolutly!

I sure they thought - most people play pantheon... why support skirmish... and perhaps didn't think about everything else you quote above...

i know this. my question was more retorically (or how do you say that in english correctly?)