Hey Stardock! Pacov says, "Would you please bring back skirmish?" Here's why...

Another 3rd person pacov request/rant

from Demigod Forums

To cut to the chase (followed up by being long winded), it would go a VERY long way towards providing a viable automatch system (you'll note that I do not mention team-automatch anywhere in the post) if you would re-enable skirmish mode. It would make it easier for players like myself to play more games against more people that are more fair.  And the basic version of this would not take much more work if I understand your infrastructure correctly.

Pros/Cons of Pantheon mode

Pros:

  • You have a decent amount of programming in place so that stats are updated and tournaments can be held over whatever time frame you want
  • You split the community up however they choose to be split - light or dark

Cons:

  • Because of the added light/dark distinction, you could potentionally have ladder ranked players 1-3 on dark and ladder ranked 30,000-30,002 on light.  No appropriate balancing would take place
  • It doesn't exist 100% of the time

I'm sure there are more pros/cons, but those are the 1st that come to mind.  So, onto skirmish mode:

Pros/Cons of Skirmish mode

Pros:

  • The only split in the community is by ??? (I'm not sure what logic you were using before this was disabled, but let's just say you were going by rank for now).
  • It automatches all of the players in the pool based on ^^
  • Its a game mode that exists 100% of the time (prior to SD disabling it)

Cons:

  • There are no tournaments.  Its simply a game mode that persists at all times.

I want to stress, just for a moment, as I doubt you (Frogboy) have encountered TOO much of this yet.  I might be wrong, so no offense meant.  Many good players in the community are now requesting balanced matches.  Many of us are willing to balance games.  BUT, some people do not think things are balanced well enough to launch... so they quit games, making all the people who waited for balancing, wait longer.  Then, someone with 0 games played will join.  And that makes things more imbalanced, so we kick and wait.  This goes on and on.  If we had a simple option to get balanced games going, I think I'd use that MUCH MUCH MUCH more often.  Pantheon DOES NOT provide this feature for us. 

Here's EXACTLY what I would do to provide the community with a better matchmaking alternative.  All of these steps would need to be followed EXACTLY to get alot of the community playing more balanced games, more frequently.  Re-enable skirmish mode.  Completely remove the overlay showing what players are joining the game.  Seriously - remove it COMPLETELY.  You can argue that you don't want to play with joebob, but I can argue that you'll quit the game when you see me join it and not know which team I'll be on.  Just remove the overlay screen completely from skirmish mode.  Next, create some sort of matchmaking scheme.  It could be as simple as balancing teams based on rank or total games played.  Decide whatever you think is fair.  Implement that.  And last, DROP PANTHEON.  Handle it just like you did skirmish.  I like and understand the reasoning for dropping a game mode, but I think you chose the wrong one primarily because of the light/dark distinction.

If you guys did this, I'd do nothing but play skirmish mode for the next week at least and I'm convinced many would enjoy the gaming experience FAR MORE than waiting around in a lobby.  It would also eliminate people stacking teams in pantheon AND greatly reduce people quiting games at the load screen because they don't want to play with X person or are trying to play against AI only to go up in ladder rank. 

Any chance this is something you'd be willing to do for us? 

demigod
10,784 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from Demigod Forums Top

NT

Reply #2 from Demigod Forums Top

Lol watch this senerio about balance.

I was hosting ontop with:

  • Me-63% win
  • Someone-50% win
  • Dark_Satana-83% win

Bottom looked like this:

  • 50% win
  • 38 % win
  • 44% win

Bottom called for balance, I said Dark_Satana down 38% guy up. Dark_Satana cries I don't want to play with noobs and rage quits.

Sigh............................

The whole issue with bringing back skirmish and the pantheon is premades trying to join together and play together which I know you have participated in Pacov. Anyway I agree that auto match does do a better job of randomizing players and making balanced teams. Maybe its a good idea to have a presistant automatch instead of facing the gaps that pantheon leaves between "Tournaments".

The example I shown was illustrating even the top players don't want to balance teams just as often as they want too. I know you are not one of "these bad guys" either pacov, you truely want fair games, but what I am trying to say is its not just the low precentage guys like me and the rest of the pug world that are the problem with balancing teams.

And I would love to see a new shiny skirmish mode. I agree with removing the overlay for the new skirmish mode would be an excellant idea but leave in the custom rooms as I believe it is helpful there.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree. This would make it a lot easier to find games.

Reply #4 from Demigod Forums Top

I think having an option in custom maps that auto balances teams would also solve the problem, no? The lobby is just a list of the players that are joining without it split into teams yet. Once the maximum amount of players join, then it balances the teams based on the players that are there.

And Pacov, I think what Stardock meant by having the community split up because of skirmish was that some of the community was playing skirmish and some of the community was playing pantheon, and of course part of the community was playing custom games as well. The community was being split by having too many game types. Since Pantheon and skirmish were both automatching game modes, they decided to eliminate skirmish.

Reply #5 from Demigod Forums Top

/signed

 

The community was being split by having too many game types. Since Pantheon and skirmish were both automatching game modes, they decided to eliminate skirmish.
End of quote
Nothing was gained from it though.

Reply #6 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky__, reply 5
End of Spooky__'s quote
Nothing was gained from it though.[/quote]Pantheon got better, assuming you play on the side with less players.

Reply #7 from Demigod Forums Top

How did it get better just because Skirmish was removed?

Reply #8 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting Spooky__, reply 7
How did it get better just because Skirmish was removed?
End of Spooky__'s quote
More people in queue from former skirmish players swapping.

Reply #9 from Demigod Forums Top

Stardock please bring Skirmish Mode back and close Pantheon, or open each Demigod for both sides on pantheon.

This will bring less double and triple Demigods on one side.

Best thing will be, if matchmaking system will select the Demigod for us. (like random without making doubles)

Hide players name and all other stats (remove players info window) at pantheon and at skrimish for the hole game, only show the names on winning screen.

with hiding the names, we will get less quits at loading screen and within the 3 minute mark!!

 

Reply #10 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting obscenitor, reply 8

Quoting Spooky__, reply 7How did it get better just because Skirmish was removed?More people in queue from former skirmish players swapping.
End of obscenitor's quote
Overall the number of players in Pantheon games didn't increase though.

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree completely Remove Pantheon and Bring back Skirmish last night alone at one time 10 players on light side in pantheon 0 dark players it is a constant AI battle.  That could hae been a 5 v 5 or a 4 v4 I think we could get some epic games if you remove the dang light and dark designations and let people play the game. 

We need Skirmish mode not Pantheon comp stomps.

Reply #12 from Demigod Forums Top

Pacov, you really like to refer to yourself in the 3rd person.

Are you Bob Dole?

Reply #13 from Demigod Forums Top


for balancing, wait longer.  Then, someone with 0 games played will join.  And that makes things more imbalanced, so we kick and wait.  This goes on and on.  If we had a simple option to get balanced games going, I think I'd use that MUCH MUCH MUCH more often.  Pantheon DOES NOT provide this feature for us.

End of quote

 

If we had the skirmish mode layed out by pacov I'd probably play it 90+% of the time.  Just let me hop into a balanced game (with no AI) with no arbitrary restriction on demigods.

Reply #14 from Demigod Forums Top

Also pacov, this is GPG's game not Stardock. They are obliged to listen to Frogboy, but its their game at the end of the day. They obviously put a lot of work into Pantheon. Going back and removing pantheon then to re add Skirmish?

I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if it happens, but I say this won't ever happen.

Reply #15 from Demigod Forums Top

Jeez they took it away now you want it back you gotta be kidding make up your minds

Reply #16 from Demigod Forums Top

yeh i agree with golgoth.

 

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting _Golgoth_, reply 15
Jeez they took it away now you want it back you gotta be kidding make up your minds
End of _Golgoth_'s quote
Quoting gkrit, reply 16
yeh i agree with golgoth.
End of gkrit's quote
Why should we make up our minds? We didn't request the removal of Skirmish. It was Stardock's idea and decision alone.

Reply #18 from Demigod Forums Top

I liked the idea of using a skirmish mode scheme like what Pacov wants but overlay pantheon on top. You join a side (Blue/Red) but can play any demigod with any other players. At the end of the game, your individual favor would go to the side you picked.

Kind of a best of both worlds maybe?

Reply #19 from Demigod Forums Top

Why should we make up our minds? We didn't request the removal of Skirmish. It was Stardock's idea and decision alone.
End of quote

Right.  Frogboy mentioned he was thinking of removing skirmish on 8/31/09 http://forums.demigodthegame.com/362657.  Then it was announced that skirmish will be removed here http://forums.demigodthegame.com/364282 on 9/18/09.  His reasoning was pretty logical in that most that could play pantheon or skirmish chose pantheon.  Why have the other if no one is really using it.  BUT - it was also pretty much our only hope of half-way decent automatching. 

I liked the idea of using a skirmish mode scheme like what Pacov wants but overlay pantheon on top. You join a side (Blue/Red) but can play any demigod with any other players. At the end of the game, your individual favor would go to the side you picked.

Kind of a best of both worlds maybe?
End of quote

While I wouldn't object to this and see the inherit benfits of keeping the pantheon system without skewing the teams, my thought is that if this would require quite a bit of coding, we won't see the change.  From what I've seen, and I may be wrong, disabling skirmish wasn't incredibly difficult and could be easily enabled again. 

Also pacov, this is GPG's game not Stardock. They are obliged to listen to Frogboy, but its their game at the end of the day. They obviously put a lot of work into Pantheon. Going back and removing pantheon then to re add Skirmish?

I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if it happens, but I say this won't ever happen.
End of quote

I see your point, but it still seems like something we should certainly request. 

Pacov, you really like to refer to yourself in the 3rd person.

Are you Bob Dole?
End of quote

Yes, I am.  And I'd appreciate it if you didn't steal my peanut butter. 

Reply #20 from Demigod Forums Top

All I know is that it is stupid that I can be sitting in a queue of 12 people and not getting a game because there is 1 light and 11 dark players queued.

On the flip side, when there are 3 light queued and no dark queued, I know that I can go get a quick game with my premade.

 

EDIT: they do not have to implement skirmish and nix pantheon to make me happy.  Just don't lock me into one side for the duration.  If I can flip sides between matches, then I can at least join the under represented side and get a game.

Reply #21 from Demigod Forums Top

agree with pacov, can we also call for the removal of ai in the automatch.

Reply #22 from Demigod Forums Top

Pretty please?

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting mies, reply 21
agree with pacov, can we also call for the removal of ai in the automatch.
End of mies's quote

There wouldn't really be a need for AI to even join in the first case if we had skirmish. Since it will be so much easier to find a game.

Reply #24 from Demigod Forums Top

Pretty please again (i know you get the weekend off, btw :) )?

Reply #25 from Demigod Forums Top

Why not combine skirmish and Patheon? 

Have each player choose a side: Light or Dark (i.e., pantheon). When players choose to play, have them join a queue of players waiting to play (i.e., skirmish). When N players want to play, take them, divide them into  two automatched teams. After the game, the winners get X points added to each of their respective sides. The important parts would be to get rid of the side specific teams and adding autobalancing teams.