Demigod Forums
Now I think SD / GPG dropped the ball here, online issues are largely fixed but if balancing and especially item baalnce is not fixed in ewn patch I think we need to think about a community balance patch. I would go pretty extreme witht he balancing but the big point is that we fix HP STACK. and with that ranged inferiority vs melee.
I am in full support of a mod like this. It allows people that play the game to get it right. Also, it allows the Devs to add more content and focus on cool stuff, while we fix the balance issues
/signed
Yes, signed too
The question is, how to do... the priest fix gave a huge discussion for example and I still couldn't tell you if it is a good idea or not. Who will decide this.
I reckon preists should be nerfed a little or given set amounts to heal (100-250, 700-850 sorta thing)
Most health items should be lowered
Branded armour taken from 400 to 300
Blood of the Fallen taken from 800 to 600
Unbreakable boots should lose 150 mana and 100 health (to 500, 650 instead of 600, 800)
Nimoth (maybe take 50/100 armour off as well) and Hauberk should lose 100 health and Narmoth ring should 150 (500-400, 600-400, 750-600)
Oh and all ranged characters should receive +35 attack damage
However the mod should take time to compile and shouldnt be rushed. All the numbers will need to be changed slightly. But if the things Ive mentioned are changed that Unclean Beast should go from 6685 to 5935. Over a 12% decrease with only slight changes
its a discussive(sp) matter, lets get all omg fix this now stuff outta the way, then put together more that are in contested territory, there will ALWAYS be someone that disagrees, but sometimes you gotta suck it up and go with it
Yes, I think the above poster has a good point; you need to make a choice.
Secondly it should be standardizsed: there shouldn't be coming new updates out every 2 weeks, this will make playing it only a hassle.
I agree with Golgoth's numbers, health stack is just TOO good. Although a BIG boost for gloves and damage items is also needed.
4thly, what do you guys think about towers? I find them way way too weak, and found that high towers balance the game out a lot betetr by making creeps more usefull and ranged chars more powerfull. On the other hand, it did drag the game along slightly, and endgame in demigod is lacking so something should be found for that. In any case, tower upgrades should be a lot more powerfull.
Fifth thing: gold income, I suggest we lower gold income from passive regen and instead make creep killing more important. Farming should be an actual strategy.
I don't want to see any HP reductions on any items, period. Fights are already short enough.
Balance Mod? Good idea:
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/366143/page/2/#2418571
The real problem will be getting a lot of people to agree on things.
Maybe if all of the demigod's starting HP were slightly increased, HP items could be slightly nerfed so that battle lengths weren't affected but other items could be improved. Just as an example, buffing QoT's HP from 1450 to 1550 and nerfing Unbreakable Boots' HP bonus from 600 to 500 would result in QoT having the same HP as she currently has if she bought that item, but would allow her to have 100 extra HP if she decided to choose some other item instead. Choosing Gauntlets of Brutality as a first item would effectively be +25 attack and +100 HP compared to the current +600 HP Unbreakable Boots.
1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree that health stacking is OP and that all items that give health need to be reduced a little, but disagree that all ranged characters should receive the +35 attack damage off the start, especially if health stacking dies off in this mod, i mean, 2500 health rook could be killed in such a short time by an AA reg now that he has lvl 1 wings, mards, and 35 inherent damage, +gloves of brutality even, that would be ridiculous...
4. Agree, I think that towers should either be put on high, or they should find an in between for them, and make them start with a little less health then high towers give, because that is just ridiculous...
5. Disagree, I think making money more based off creep killing would totally murder sedna's role in this game, i mean many people play her as a tank, and doing this would keep her from making much money if any, i mean, i have gone matches where on avg the # of creeps killed is like 300-400, and sedna killed 40, just doesn't work... (+ It would make the game too much liek DotA hehe)
DaBRUM
1. yes, there should be a balance mod
2. problem is: hp stacking is too effective. solutions: make hp items weaker or buff other items? next problem: the fights are already short and shouldnt be shorter. buffing other items will decrease the time the fights last so thats not an option.
thats why i agree on reducing hp items and buffing hp right from the start.
sideeffect: getting money from killing enemy demigods wont matter that much anymore because the items are weaker and the difference between the players wont be that much!
but anyway there are some items that have to be buffed!
1.) First, I'd slighty nerf the really overpowered items. Really only little.
- Blood of the Fallen: 650-700 hp
- Sigil of Vitality: (15s / 40% or similar)
- Unbreakable Boots 700-750 mana, 500-550 health.
... and make the Priest do absolute, level-based healing, that will help especially the squishy demigods Reg/Tb.
2.) Then I'd make the completly unused items more useful be giving them a buff of some sort.
- Footman's Sabatons -> 5% movement speed
3.) Balance the Minions
- Nerf Erebus
- Boost Sedna and QoT
4. ) Changing useless skills into something useful. Many Level 15 Skills for example.
This should change very little for the overall survivability, except for 12k sigil use, which is so off the chart anyway.
I'd say BoF to 600. It's just good on every character, it isnt always the best pick but it is an decent pick and for half of the selection probably the best. Maybe we should just take it out? Or make it an percentage of base health, that would be cool for rook.
Absolute healing for idol priests, yes.
1. I'm not sure about this idea, but maybe have some counters to minions instead of pure aoe skills, like were in the alpha builds. IE, throwing units(instakilling them) can be used on minions and bought inshop/favor. Then you can buy items to counter this, or Aoe evade ir whatever.
2. And this brings me to my second point, minion items should be unbugged(I shouldnt be losing hp when I get health items!) and there should be high level items that really change minions, like making them immune to knockback, or massive evade.
3. Level 2 items(in the 1500-2000 range) should be nerfed or atleast made less important. The way it goes now is that I get some consumables/monks/level I items(helm+banded) and then get my level 2 items ASAP, if I get enough money I may buy some big item, but really is it needed? usually not. Dota/HoN is a good example: they've high priced items that totally change how your character plays.
4. Mana helms are to one dimensional. You basically get vlemish and if needed plenor and thats the end of it. Vlemish should be an ally support aura, and plenor should give mana based on how big your mana pool is or do something different.
5. Locks and ports are way too important, not having them means you instantly lose against a decent team. On top of that locks are so cheap lategame that they can be literally spammed to gain warscore. Also locks can end a game with a portal cap, although this may be a good thing too.
I first thought about money hikes, but that only means they become useless early game. CD increases are possible too, but still very hard to balance. BUT there is another way to change this: lower the amount you can stack in an item slot.
If you can only have one or two locks per item slot that makes lock spamming a lot harder, and in addition makes it easier for a team to defend(their portal) since they can quickly restock on these valuable consumables.
6. The problem right now is that hp stack is Overpowered, but lowering hp makes you die way too fast. So I propose we add items that safe you but do not neccerseily add hp. Orb of defiance is an example(albeit it isnt that good).
7. There should be a choice between getting minions, I should be able to for insstance stack on minotaurs and totally forgo monks and ranged. (this means getting rid of minion specific slots), and this should be a real choice. First monks should do less dmg, its bullshit that they heal and still do almost as much damage as ranged and minos combined. Second they should come in different numbers: that should also make it feel more like an army. For one melee idol you get 3 minions, but you only get 1 priest per healing idol etc.
Ok that was it=D
What? This is just a brainstorm thread, not a definite mod. What do you think is imbalanced exactly?
That sounds like a different mod altogether really 
Oh and my comment on the buff ranged characters should be taken with a pinch of salt really. It was only a suggestion but it was mainly meant for QoT who's AA is laughable. Maybe Reg and TB could do with a tiny buff (TB more than reg really)
Well first we need to decide whats broken. So what is broken?
Blood of the Fallen, Unbreakable Boots
I find myself buying those almost everyone game no matter the Demigod
What needs fixed?
Plate Visor, Footman Sadans, Vinling Helmet, Gladiator Gloves and the infamous Ironwalkers
Ive only bought one of these items before... That was the 3rd time I played the game. They are all underpowered compared to cheaper or simpler much better alternatives
Yeah, Golgoth that's probably true.
I think better towers will help ranged characters tremendously, and an health stack nerf could also make them a little better.
On spit: there's some taboo on saying it is OP, and I ask myself why? Sure against erebus and sedna it isn't that good, but those demigods are OP anyway. The squisies who have no cleanse skill nor any monks are fucked most by this. On top of that spit is imho vastly superior to fireball. Yes fireball has more range and yes it can be dispelled but spit does waaaay more damage, is almost as cheap manawise and is much harder to interrupt.
On top of that why can spit be used on towers? It's like queens tower skill but also useable on people.
it is shorter if you ask me what NOT.
OK, i was writing my comment yesterday, but my internet stopped working, so this is what a write then:
I agree with Golgoth, Reaver, Lifecatana, Obscenitor, Makeshift & Dabrum!
Now, how is that possible?!
The thing about HP items is that we dont have to nerf them all. Some can stay the same, and some must be changed. You guys just need to find agreement on what is what. Go through the middle, find the balance.
For example, Unbreakable Boots must get nerf(if they keep their cost) cause they are too good, everybody take them. So 600/800 to 500/650 is ok nerf. On the other hand, nerfing banded armor is not necessary, it can stay the same imo. I would actually maybe rather nerf scalemale than banded(!) Scale gives 600! armor for 400 gold, and Banded is 400HP (+5hps) for 550 gold. Later game i almost always change banded first (with Unbr boots if full items), and leave scalemale, cause for some builds it is actually better than banded. Just to note: if you play Rook you get more effective health with buying Scale at the beginning instead of Banded and it is cheaper!! (i always do that, and ofc it is only better for Rook, but few lvls later it gets better even for other dgs, only thing Banded is better is that +5hps that can stack with other similar items, and help regeneration through game better.)
just randomly: Gauntlets of brutality must give +30 dam. (not sure about +35)
I would give range attackers more dmg (but not +35!!) and if needed, reduce their att rate a bit to not be OP (regulus for ex.)
But it all requires more discussion.
Agree for towers, they should have armor. maybe that Citadel upgrade gives them that armor.
ok for now, i wont go in details.
Now, the new stuff: I agree with ntropy (sigils&minions), and in general with lifecatana's thoughts, and again with Golgoth.
I'll say some of my thoughts next time writing.
Didn't I predict this utter chaos in another thread? 
It is not utter chaos, ppl agree on things.
Okay, so let me point something out everyone is missing. How long are Demigod encounters now? What is so wrong with the current HP levels? You're trying to reduce the effectiveness of HP stacking without changing the damage numbers. You're talking about a complete retrofit of the entire game, not just reducing HP. Lets reduce the amount of HP everyone has, and then reduce the percentage priests heal. There are consequences for everything you change. You cannot "balance" HP stacking just by reducing the amount of HP items give. You need to implement entire new strategies to make HP stacking one of many possible strategic routes to take.
The hp nerfs should be minor and only on the extrem items (BotF, UB). Priest wont heal much less if you make the healing absolut and level-based, except for sigil-users, anyway, low health dgs will benefit from this. You just need to get the numbers right. Sedna has to get more of course.
There is also more health items now, the new 2500g armor for example. This will allow more health again. Some now unused items can get health boost. This should have little effect on the maximum health.
A way to make fights last longer is to fix the prices for mid and end game pots. This should keep the fights long. Cast times and total health will have to be reconsidered on some. The minor health pot is only useful in early game and the artefact ones are still too expensive. The large pots cant be cast in battle, cast is simply too long. Making fights longer I'd start there.
One the fights are longer, the damage items can be boosted, which will shorten the fights again, but in the end gives you the choice of dps or health build.
Why do fights need to be long? Cooldown times and mana regen rates don't correspond well with longer fights.
Shifting the emphasis of fights more to potions/consumables has a LOT of implications. Right now it's already frustrating when someone buys their way out of a fight, I'm sure you know what I mean; I think we've all had frustrating fights against the guy who uses a sigil, an artifact healing potion, and and artifact rejuv to kill you and suffers a net gold loss but still sends you to the graveyard.
Potion based fights mean comebacks become less and less probable as a game goes on and one team is able to fully restock every battle and the other struggles to keep up on gear. Potion based fights mean a balance shift against QoT, Regulus, fire TB, and even frost TB to a lesser extent.
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