No objections from me. 

Can you provide a simple walk through on what to use, etc for this process?

I appreciate the thought out response and I am on board with this line of thinking as well.  I'll summarize your statements and put them in rule format.  If anyone disagrees with the ideas aborn mentions, please reply here and explain any deficiencies in his logic and/or provide a better solution.  We'd need a group of people willing to review games as needed.  I'm certainly willing to handle that, but it will probably be better to have more than one person making a decision.

frankly, I didn't have an good ideas for the 3rd round, so I wrote it that way.  Keep in mind that the team on dark has a little bit of an advatage because of the heath and gold flags.  I'd think if it came down to one team picking light or dark and then the other team getting to pick their team in response to whatever the other team selected (eg the team that chose sides HAS TO pick their characters first and cannot change), that might be enough, but maybe not.  I'd even go so far as to say flip a coin..

And last - ptarth said he's willing to release version 1.02 of uberfix (click for details).  I'm interested in that, but we'd certainly need to do some bug testing prior to the tourney to ensure there are not stability concerns.

My hard drive died when I got home from work today  I'm putting it to get repaired tomorrow so I should have a gaming machine working again by Thursday all things going to plan. Hopefully the tournament will be about the 20th, eh?  Give me a chance to get in shape for this

In case you missed that, my previously unknown team mate is ABornExile.

Also, I'm not sure everyone is reading this thread so closely with regards to the cut-off date.  I'd make a separate post with a new cut-off date so people actually take notice of it.  And possibly another a "i'm looking for a teammate thread :P".

Oh - and I'm requesting that those of you already listed as "Confirmed teams" in the OP, confirm again.  I want to make sure everyone is still on board and remove those that have made changes, etc.

Teams that WILL play in the tournament:

• pacov + trousersnake
• abornExile + Shred_demon
• Some crazy combination of Mithrandar and MCshane/renz0kuken/GM-Ninki

The Cow/Tes team is up in the air.  Hedgie + Thunder is up in the air.  Synn indicated that he won't be playing now, but I'm not sure if he still is planning on playing. 

I'll probably make another post so I can quickly update the op with rules/participants.

I'm 100% for sure in as long as the date is after the 16th. If its not, I can't

I'm on holiday pretty much from the 23rd of April to the 4th of May.  Just saying, you know    I'm trying to be subtle here

Lmfao. I hate you so much.

For the commentary I would go with the commentators downloading the replays then using fraps or something to rip the replay to a video file. Then watching the avi simultaneously and recording a skype, vent, ts call etc. Then they'd use a video editing program to merge the audio file of the commentary with the video of the replay. Then this video can be posted online and people can download it. This way when people watch the replay it will always be synced with the audio, because some peoples pcs would lag while watching replays and the audio file was made over a less laggy replay run. The video replay with the added commentary sound makes it simpler and less susceptable to desyncs between the video and the sound.

I have all the software required for the whole procedure and most people could probably get it easily online. They may not be able to use it if they are inexperienced with it, but thats only on the back end. The users watching the commentated replays would just go to a site and stream the video, nice and easy, as to where wed post it, youtube works, if you guys have any other site that's better or w/e that's ok too.

well - per the cut off dates I've created... the earliest the tournament could possibly begin would be 4/14/2010.  I don't have any objections to us delaying the start an additional week if needed, but I'm still sticking with the deadlines I setup for registration, etc.

I'm not sure live streaming video is the route to take.

• Most of the games will be played at random times of the days, it is unlikely that people would be able to arrange their schedules around it. That being the case, having the videos for download would be the best solution.
• Likewise having an in-game referee would also complicate things. Creep patterns would change and system usage would go up. So using replays would remove this problem.
  
• Additionally, a live commentary wouldn't be as good as a prepared commentary. Being able to move the camera proactively to an interesting event instead of continuously panning makes for better watching.
  

Assuming that the replays will be converting into videos, it would will require someone to convert the replays into AVIs or MPEGs (as previously noted). The video would have to be syncronized with the commenators dialog. This suggests that the commentators would have to work from a script and provide information for whomever is converting the video. I don't think it would require video edits and cuts, a continuous feed would be good enough. However, it would still be a lot of work. Interesting though.

I'm also suggesting that we should have a content filter for the commentators. We should stick to a G or PG rating. It isn't going to be good PR for the game to have "expressive" language in these videos. In essence, we should consider treating the commentator project as an advertisement for the game.

My last suggestion is for the people interested and with the programs and computational power to organize the commentary project. I don't have either, so I'm not much of a help. However, I do know that without people working together with a defined job structure nothing much will ever happen.

Not arguing, but might I ask why we dont just say no Teir 1? Was anyone against that idea?

I just came up with a way to possibly improve the variety of the tournament. The previous proposal was to specify one dg had to be tb reg or da, the weakest dgs, and the 2nd can be whoever. The problem with this is if you have to have a weak one, ur going to pick a strong one as the second dg. This leaves out the middle dgs entirely, unless you want to lose. This system was thought up to prevent power matches from dominating the lineups, for example beast erebus, beast oak, etc, being the only combos chosen, therefore reducing the variety of the whole tournament.

My proposal is to get the best of both worlds. To have rules governing which dgs can be chosen, but not the ones previously suggested. Instead I propose a point system. Each demigod would be assigned a number of points based on their viability in a 2v2 on cataract, as this is the area and game type. For example the strong characters like beast and erebus, oak, rook would be assigned a high amount of points. The mid level demigods such as sedna, queen, oculus would be assigned less points, and the weakest demigods like reg tb da, would be assigned the least points. We would try to reach a consensus on how many points each demigod should be worth, this might take a little effort. The idea behind it is that each team would be given a set amount of points to use in their dg lineup. Lets say for example you get 10 points. The better demigods would be assigned 6-8 points, the mids assigned 4-6 and the weak ones assigned 2-4. This is just a rough example, it needs more work to be viable, but the basic idea is that if you want a strong dg picked like erebus, lets say 8 poitns, you are limited to choosing a weak dg as your teams second pick, such as reg. This will balance it out so noone picks beast erebus or something like that. But unlike the existing proposal, it woudlnt limit you to one strong one weak, you could also pick 2 5's, or a 4 and a 6. This way lineups containing mid level dg's woudlnt be eliminated from the possibilities. And of course is someone wants to use less than 10 points and pick 2 3 point dgs, they can if they want, its up to them. But the objective of the system is to limit the teams from choosing power house combos, because if it were possible, that's all we'd see, while also improving over the previous rules by not only limiting teams to one strong one weak and thereby eliminating mid level dgs from the tournament, but enabling teams to select a mid mid combo if they wish. If the system is designed properly there will be lots of good matches with varied lineups. Anyways I put some thought into this and I think would be great. As for defining the points for each dg and the total points, we would have to talk about that and see what everyone thinks. It will never be perfect, but its a lot better than no rules, and would also make it more interesting than the reg tb da + whoever rule, while still retaining balance.

I was suggesting whoever did the commentary also do the video ripping and syncing to make the whole thing easier, but if they can't do it, and my commentating team isn't chosen, I could do the heavy lifting for them. I would essentially rip the replay to avi for them, send them the file, they would then record their commentary and send it back to me and i would merge the two, and post it online. This is less ideal than one party doing the whole process, but some people aren't familiar with the kind of work needed. Me and shred demon were going to do a test commentation on an exisiting replay and see how it goes. As opposed to working off a script, my idea was to watch the replay once and write down some notes, then watch it a second time while recording our semi-prepared commentary. Either that or improving the whole thing, depending on how good we do with it. I agree with the PG rating. I love to swear but I think it would be better for the viewers without it, although it would probably be funnier with profanity in there

Also, since me and shreds or any other team may not be in the same actual location, it's rather impossible for us to be watching the same screen and zooming, following the action together, which would make the replay much better. I suggest we would watch it once, make a record of key points in the battle, have one of the commentators pan and zoom accordingly, rip that version of the replay with all the following action, then commentate over that with their team members. That way it would have good visuals, and audio to match the action.

naw - we stick with the existing proposal for this tourney.  1 reg/tb/da + 1 anything else (but no dbls).  I think your idea is just fine, btw, but I'm leaning towards let's do something simple and at the same time different.  I have no objection at all towards someone devising a system like you've described for a future tournament, but I expect that there would be some debate about the weighting until we'd reach an appropriate consencous.  And I'd rather spend the time we have left before this tournament sorting out the remaining rules, getting brackets, deciding about uberfix 1.02, forming teams, pairing people up, and getting commentators.  So, there's enough on the plate atm imo.  I think we can all have some fun with this and the teams do give some individuals that wouldn't shine in 2v2 with an erb/oak/ub a better chance at DG glory. 

I agree that my system is requires more debate and consensus, but it’s my impression that not everyone agrees with the proposed system already in place. I also agree that time is precious and that it might be a better idea to focus on the other issues rather than spend more time on my idea. However, I propose in order to save time, a special panel be convened to try and reach a consensus on a good point system. Instead of using the forum, we would ask for volunteers from the forum and the members would then get into some sort of voice chat at a pre-arranged time to debate the system. This way it’s not distracting the focus of this post from the aforementioned issues at hand. If we cannot reach a consensus on a good point system, then maybe we wasted and hour or two. But on the other hand if we do come up with a viable point system to use for the tournament, it would be a much better tournament than the one we'd have using the reg tb da +1 system which has been made a rule, but in reality was not completely agreed on by everyone. My hope is that if a good system is devised by the panel, we could post it on here and if everyone likes it better than reg tb da+1 we could use it instead, if not, we haven't wasted too much time, and we go ahead with what's already in place.

I realize it’s ambitious and may not work, but if this post isn't consumed by the debate over the point system, then were not losing anything by trying. And if it does work, it would be very interesting indeed.

I think the whole "tier 3" thing is stupid. Whoever thinks TB is weak in 2v2 Cata make me laugh. I'll agree that DA and Reg are the two weakest, but TB is Tier 2 to begin with, and I'd say he's stronger in 2v2 Cata than 3v3 Cata. So yeah.

Rather than a complicated point system, I think you should group it by tiers:

1- Oak, Erebus, UB, Rook

2- Sedna, Queen, Occulus, TB

3- Reg, DA

Pick 1 + 3 or 2 + 2. 

Of course, the fact that Rook and UB couldn't be monk-supported (all T3's are Assassins) until priests come out, this limits their effectiveness by a lot... you could do something like this

1- Oak, Erebus,

1.5 - UB, Rook

2- Sedna, Occulus, TB

2.5 - Queen, 

3 - Reg, DA

The rule is that you must have at least 4 points. 

Although Queen is plenty strong, and she's good in 2v2 where she can't be focus-fired quite so easily and Armor debuff with Ground Spikes is huge, she lacks an Interrupt, which causes a lot of stress. Plus, you are more poor in a 2v2 game than a 3v3 (you have 2/3rds the gold income to purchase cit.upgrades which comes out of your items. Plus, less kills) means that she cannot get her nice items as early. Occ has the same problem, where I would normally consider him tier 1.5. So he drops to 2 but you could keep him at 1.5 if you think that he should stay there. It also prevents a Sedna + Occulus combo which would be really strong.  

This gives a lot more variety in Demigod selection (right now it is pick Erebus or Oak, then pick TB or Reg. That's a whopping 4 combos!) Now we can get Queen + UB combos or Queen + Rook, which should both be strong while not overpowering and that has good synergy. We can go TB + Sedna, we can go Oak + Reg. All those combos have good synergy and the possibility to be competitive against the majority of other matchups, while I can still see a Reg + Oak combo beating a Queen + UB at the same time. 

--

Also, since when is Pacov the official judge, jury, and executioner of the demigod forums? We'll have this tourney when we're damn ready. I understand the need to "move things along" but a tourney with 3 teams is not going to be all too exciting and I still need to prod Thundercles with a pokey stick. 

hedgie will now organize the tourney.  Let me know how that goes...

seriously - if you want the job its yours.

oh and if there are not 8 or more teams that will play (even after we randomly make teams for those that want to play), then I'd say fail.  We should be all set, but that depends on how many people decide they won't play after indicating an interest. 

edit - my response in the previous post was a little harsh, so sorry for that.  Anyway, here's my thought.  If people want to follow along, I'll either get this tourney up and running and we'll be actually playing it in about 2 weeks or so or the tourney will die out.  Passfail indicated that he wanted me to run with things and that the tourney was simply his idea.  So, I am running with the idea and have created cut off dates.  If you guys don't want to move things alongs and get thing setup quickly, say the word - I'm happy to simply participate in this tourney, on whatever date, with whatever characters.  But if you want this to happen, say, in the next 2 weeks, then let's push things along.  My 2 cents.  And also my take is that if we can get things rolling, as painless as possible, we could have monthly tournaments, etc.  But if its a huge pain the ass, then I doubt many of us that are taking out time to organize will be all that interested in participating again.

oh snap, it is going down here, quick everyone pick sides...pacov or hedgie! The dictator vs the usurper, will this be a revolution ora civil war!

Synnworld is will now organize the tourney... so much silly drama... just trying to move things along...

ere are the latest rules for the tourney.  Some are still debating various aspects.  The cutoff for team registration or committing to play if we pair you up with players randomly is Wed at 11:59PM 4/7/2010.  I'll randomly create teams from individuals on 4/8/2010.

Current tournament rules:

• Exactly 1 player on the team MUST choose either Reg, DA, or TB.
• The 2nd player may choose any Demigod but cannot select the same Demigod as his teammate
• Each match in the tournament will be the best 2 out of 3
• All matches will be played on cataract with default settings (the only exceptions being AI HP on Very High and AI Gold/XP on very low)
• After teams are formed, they will be randomly placed into a bracket to determine who will fight who.  Everything will be random initially in round 1.  In the following rounds, the winners from one game will play the winners from another based on location in the bracket starting from the top on to the bottom.
  
• Each team will play 1 round on light side, then 1 round on dark side.  If there is a 3rd round, then teams can decide for themselves (keep in mind the following rule)
  
• The team that is on light must pick their characters and ready up first.  Then dark gets to pick and light side does not have a chance to adjust their characters. 
  
• To track your wins, you must do the following - post the replay at gamereplays.org.  If you have issues with gamereplays, upload the file to rapid share and provide us with a link.  Also, provide a link to the match in the pantheon and let me know if its a win or loss.  The winning team should do this for each and every match.
• Uberfix 1.01 must be used.  Uberfix is a mod that simply fixes many of the bugs in Demigod.  Check the modding forum for everything that is fixed by uberfix 1.01. (uberfix 1.02 is being tested and may or may not be required in place of uberfix 1.01). 
  

How will we handle crashes:

If there is a game crash, the players involved in that match should see if they can come to a consensus on the probable outcome of the match.  If there is no clear winner, the 2 teams should replay the match using the exact same demigods and sides (light/dark).  If there was a clear winner at that point in the game, then that team should be awarded the win.  If the 2 teams disagree on the outcome, a third party will review the replay of the match and render a decision.  Be aware that the 3rd party must agree that a specific team was going to win or the results will be thrown out and the match redone.

How we will handle invalid gamestates:

We currently believe that the lastgamereplay file is created even in the instance of an invalid gamestate, so information can be removed (I want to test this myself to be 100% sure).  In the event of an invalid gamestate, players should attempt to resolve the issue exactly the same way as game crashes.  If you believe foul play occurred, submit the replay along with any screenshots, etc, as evidence and we will review.  If there is a CLEAR consensous that a team is willing triggering invalid gamestates, that team should be disqualified after a thorough review of the facts.

If you were wanting to put money up for the tournament, let us know here.  As of now, its just a tournament for fun and prestige in our community.

If you guys want to start a separate thread focused on a discussion of weigting teams on cataract, etc, then please do so.  When all is said and done, it is a community tournament.  I'm just trying to make it happen.

And you know what, seeing as some are getting more involved and want to talk through some more issues, let's push back the first deadline 1 week.  That should give more folks a chance to register and provide feedback.  Unless there are objections, that's my plan anyway.  The cutoff date will be 4/14/2010 for team/individual registration.  I'll be starting another post shortly that just covers the rules and registration.  I'll link to it in here though.