soase-maelstrom soase-maelstrom

[MOD] Maelstrom [Trinity | Rebellion]

[MOD] Maelstrom [Trinity | Rebellion]

http://www.soase-maelstrom.com/

 

Compatibility

Maelstrom is currently compatible with

Original v1.195 | Entrenchment v1.055 | Diplomacy v1.37 | Rebellion v1.94

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Credits

For contributions in testing and concepts
ICEman, Quiet_Man, Malanthor, UncleJ and many others
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Introduction

The Maelstrom Mod introduces four new races to the SoaSE Universe.

It keeps the original races, the TEC, Advent and Vasari who are still to be found building and battling as usual.

All of the new races are independent of the original races and have unique strengths and weaknesses.

Learn more and download the Maelstrom Mod at ...

ModDB Website                    

 

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Please note that for all mods the 'Installation and Change notes' are included in the download.

Use the recommended 'Graphics Effects Setting' as stated in the Installation notes of the mod.

Installation & Release Notes

4,200,616 views 1,681 replies
Reply #1051 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1050
PS: not quite sure why you stated "Basically I didn't like dds or tga explicitly stated in the brushes files.". I thought it was a basic 'tenet' from TSOP that all tga files should be converted to dds (which I have done) and if not explicitly stated the tga will have precedence

The statement is simply a tool limitation in that I didn't code for explicit references in brush files to .tga or .dds. My assumption also was if the dds existed in the mod it would override any tga in the base game. I may have been wrong here and never really confirmed in the debugger. In either case here's an updated version for you that handles .tga or .dds explicitly stated in the brush files.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5790092/Temp/soseplugin_v.1.0.1.zip

 

Personally I did not agree with converting UI elements from tga to dds mainly due to the loss of quality in the image. However, I also never felt It was fully confirmed on the UI texture side so I opted for the higher quality tga versus the lossy dds.

Basically my understanding: there is a savings IF the DDS texture is sent directly to the graphics card for rendering such as with the meshes or particle effects. In this case the compressed DDS can be sent directly to the graphics card with native support for mipmaps resulting in less memory and better performance.

However, if the graphics file is loaded into memory as may be indicated below then the uncompressed DDS for UI elements will be the same size as the uncompressed TGA resulting in loss of quality and no memory benefit.

 

This is a quote from Yarlen that seems to indicate this is the case.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?aid=411638

Quoting Yarlen, reply 23

Quoting boshimi336, reply 20
Quoting Yarlen, reply 18Yeah, there won't be a 64-bit or multicore version of Rebellion.  It's simply that 64-bit OS's rock and if you have Windows 7, you should be rocking with the 64-bit version. 

 

Has the engine been further optimized for Rebellion to reduce resource usage at all? I'm curious if everything has been converted over to .dds textures, if said textures have been shrunk where applicable (as some are just HUGE in size) and the same story for some of the very high poly models, envoys and mines for example.

 

Since I'm going to be upgrading my computer in just under a year I'm trying to gauge just how much core speed I need to get out of my multi-core processor as it will only be utilizing one core? (I'm assuming a 3ghz core speed will be required?)

 

We're optimizing the engine further as we're able. Turning things into .dds files won't help anything since once the textures go into memory, they're all the same size after conversion.  We're not reworking any of the existing models except to potentially look better.

 

Any multi-core processor will be fine.  It's more that they allow Sins to run on one core while the OS has the others to play with.

 

Reply #1052 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1050
Thanks for running the mod through your 'Entity Editor and Validation Tool' and posting the results.
It appears that as usual the Sins debugging tools could be more useful!
I tried your tools several months ago with limited success, however, I have downloaded your recent updates. Thanks again, much appreciated.

Which is why I wrote the tool basically. The debugger is a great runtime evaluator of the mod but is not quite as useful when it comes to debugging source file and reference integrity issues as you can see from the resulting output. I am a software developer by trade and value having both of these tools. I also have quite a bit of experience developing custom scripting languages so it seemed natural to come up with a parsing algorithm for the sins file syntax and then extended that with some more Design patterns for the validation rules. Learning to turn it into an eclipse program was the more challenging aspect for myself.

FYI, Sorry to hear about your previous issues with the tool. Feel free to bug me if you want and check out the more maelstrom compatible version of the tool I posted above.

 

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Reply #1053 Top

ZombiesRus5,

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1051
In either case here's an updated version for you that handles .tga or .dds explicitly stated in the brush files.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5790092/Temp/soseplugin_v.1.0.1.zip

Thanks!

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1051
Personally I did not agree with converting UI elements from tga to dds mainly due to the loss of quality in the image.

Can see were your coming from ... also read the TSOP forum comments on this issue. So it's speed vs quality. Also, and more importantly for me, its consistency. I'll stick with all my textures being dds, easier to manage.

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1052
I am a software developer by trade and value having both of these tools. I also have quite a bit of experience developing custom scripting languages so it seemed natural to come up with a parsing algorithm for the sins file syntax and then extended that with some more Design patterns for the validation rules. Learning to turn it into an eclipse program was the more challenging aspect for myself.

Glad you applied your skills to a useful tool.

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1052
Sorry to hear about your previous issues with the tool

Can't specifically remember what was the problem (probably just me), but I opted for the simple solution at the time (Sins debugger)

 

Reply #1054 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1049
Reply #1046

What I want to overcome is that the number of Dreads is limited for the AI. With the AI being careless about them, they lose them after short time. So when the player waits a little, he will be the only one with (multiple) Dreads and only two of them will level most fleets on their own. This neutralises the higher AI levels, as a major bonus for high level AI is the resource boost. But they just build more ships without a chance.

With the change from Antimatter to Resources, the AI will receive relatively quickly replacement for a lost Dread, specificaly on higher levels and late game where they collect lots resources they can't use efficiently otherwise.

Using the 5th ability slot to add a fixed (Level0) ability with -2.5 resources also solves the "problem" of the player collecting Dreads. The resource drain kicks in the moment the Dread spawns. Which seams to work in Diplomacy without problem and also balances the Dread spawning for the AI (see my post in Reply #1046)

Hope that makes is clear. Thank you at all for taking time trying to understand my posts o_O

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Reply #1055 Top

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1054
What I want to overcome is that the number of Dreads is limited for the AI. With the AI being careless about them, they lose them after short time. So when the player waits a little, he will be the only one with (multiple) Dreads and only two of them will level most fleets on their own. This neutralises the higher AI levels, as a major bonus for high level AI is the resource boost. But they just build more ships without a chance.
These are good points. Obviously you have been giving this some thought, which is great. Sorry as a developer I tend to get focused on other things, lots and lots of other things. In my tests I tend to get hit by multiple AI players so the dreadnought numbers tend to balance. But on a one-to-one basis you are right.

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1054
With the change from Antimatter to Resources, the AI will receive relatively quickly replacement for a lost Dread, specificaly on higher levels and late game where they collect lots resources they can't use efficiently otherwise.
One of the reasons I have been reluctant to move in this direction is that it effects the overall balance of a race as opposed to just 'battle' balance. So care must be taken. But I can see the benefits you are suggesting. 

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1054
Using the 5th ability slot to add a fixed (Level0) ability with -2.5 resources also solves the "problem" of the player collecting Dreads.
Good idea for E and D, but as you know O only has 4 ability slots.

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1054
Thank you at all for taking time trying to understand my posts
As always thanks for helping out with your suggestions and taking that extra step of implmeneting and testing your ideas!

Reply #1056 Top

I'm happy that you like my feedback. So here some more ;)

I recognized a pirate system with ridiculous number of stations and ships. When watching closely what was going on, it seamed new ships and stations where spawned each time the system was hit by the Vasari Cannon, until my PC could not handle it anymore.

 

Regarding the Dreads
The resource solution scales better, with the higher level AI being much stronger and I really think the solution worth to separate O, just let O version stay with the antimatter system. But this is your decision, it might drive the effort on updates.

 

About the weapon effects,
I do not agree with your concerns (without your indeep knowledge and without being in position to tell you what you should do ). I do not see the need to create complete new effects as I would expect e.g. the TEC autocannon to look the same as the Alliance one. But currently the alliance one has a bright effect while the TEC one looks dull compared to it. And using the same effect for similar old/new races weapons should even reduce the load on the system?

Reply #1057 Top

Have any advice or examples for particle effects?

By example I have one ship or possible planet that surrounds the core of a star. I was thinking about making the core a particle effect with a different shader based on some of the comments in the forum.

 

Reply #1058 Top

Hi Quiet_Man,

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056
I recognized a pirate system with ridiculous number of stations and ships. When watching closely what was going on, it seamed new ships and stations where spawned each time the system was hit by the Vasari Cannon, until my PC could not handle it anymore.

Interesting, the spawn time should be 15mins. Was it O, E or D?

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056
The resource solution scales better, with the higher level AI being much stronger and I really think the solution worth to separate O, just let O version stay with the antimatter system. But this is your decision, it might drive the effort on updates.

I like your idea, it could be adsorbed into another ability and not as a separate ability. Also have you thought about increasing the resource drain further when the dread becomes a super-dread?

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056
I do not see the need to create complete new effects as I would expect e.g. the TEC autocannon to look the same as the Alliance one. But currently the alliance one has a bright effect while the TEC one looks dull compared to it. And using the same effect for similar old/new races weapons should even reduce the load on the system?

I can see that you are quite adamant about your concerns. Are there particular effects or a group of effects that you would recommend improving?

Reply #1059 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1058
I like your idea, it could be adsorbed into another ability and not as a separate ability. Also have you thought about increasing the resource drain further when the dread becomes a super-dread?

The super-dread upgrade could easily have it's own income penalty added to the buff files. Though, I have to say that adding an income penalty for every level up, that is, with each new ability, seems to be a bit much and essentially is penalizing people for having better ships, the suoer-dread upgrade notwithstanding.

Reply #1060 Top

Hi ZombiesRus5,

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1057
Have any advice or examples for particle effects?

If you value your sanity stay away from particle effects ... just joking.

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1057
based on some of the comments in the forum.

Not sure what is trying to be achieved.

Quoting ZombiesRus5, reply 1057
I was thinking about making the core a particle effect

Its possible. I made a star a particle effect for a ring world. You make the 'core particle effect' a flair and embed it in another mesh.

Haven't found a good alternative to the GS_Star Pipeline Effect, that is to create the plasma 'jitter' on the core surface.

BTW: Your welcome to use anything you have seen in my mod.

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Reply #1061 Top

Quoting Lavo_2, reply 1059
I have to say that adding an income penalty for every level up, that is, with each new ability, seems to be a bit much and essentially is penalizing people for having better ships, the suoer-dread upgrade notwithstanding.

As you know its about balancing a monster ship that the AI does know how to handle. The AI needs some additional negative feedback mechanism to counter-balance a cap/s that can take on a whole fleet.

Having the 'income penalty' for just the super-ability is possibly a way forward. As a dread of level 5 can be taken-out relatively easily, particularity by a human player. Of course a option is to reduce the super-ability to make the dread a little less monstrous.

Reply #1062 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1058
Hi Quiet_Man,


Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056I recognized a pirate system with ridiculous number of stations and ships. When watching closely what was going on, it seamed new ships and stations where spawned each time the system was hit by the Vasari Cannon, until my PC could not handle it anymore.

Interesting, the spawn time should be 15mins. Was it O, E or D?

It was in D


Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1058
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056The resource solution scales better, with the higher level AI being much stronger and I really think the solution worth to separate O, just let O version stay with the antimatter system. But this is your decision, it might drive the effort on updates.

I like your idea, it could be adsorbed into another ability and not as a separate ability. Also have you thought about increasing the resource drain further when the dread becomes a super-dread?

Yes, but the AI can not handle it. It will build several Dread and when they level up the AI will run out of resources. So better apply the resource drain from start, it prevents more Dreads from spawning until the AI has more income.

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1058
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1056I do not see the need to create complete new effects as I would expect e.g. the TEC autocannon to look the same as the Alliance one. But currently the alliance one has a bright effect while the TEC one looks dull compared to it. And using the same effect for similar old/new races weapons should even reduce the load on the system?

I can see that you are quite adamant about your concerns. Are there particular effects or a group of effects that you would recommend improving?

Mostly the weapons effects. When you have a battle "new" versus "old" race there is now a very big difference in effects.

btw. playing a little with the Vasaris, I recognized the new races miss a "rocket" race. Why not make the Norlamins go for intelligent weapons, like long range shield/armor penetrating weapons? Might be a bit too late on how far you are into developing them, but it might fit their appearance as less "brute-force" race.

Reply #1063 Top

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062
It was in D

In O (R5) I've reworked/simplified the pirates so they easier to manage. So will look at this in R6 as I translate the changes into E & D.

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062
Yes, but the AI can not handle it. It will build several Dread and when they level up the AI will run out of resources. So better apply the resource drain from start, it prevents more Dreads from spawning until the AI has more income.

I agree to a certain extent ... but it all depends on how much of a extra resource drain the super-ability will be. I was not thinking of doubling the drain (-2.5) but increasing it slightly (let's say -0.5).

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062
Mostly the weapons effects. When you have a battle "new" versus "old" race there is now a very big difference in effects.

You don't get something for nothing ... the chief reason way the effects look better is because they use more particles. Sins has restricted the total number of particles that can be active at one time. Once this 'ceiling' is reached then the particles stop being rendered. I'll look into the situation nonetheless so see what can be done.

Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062
btw. playing a little with the Vasaris, I recognized the new races miss a "rocket" race. Why not make the Norlamins go for intelligent weapons, like long range shield/armor penetrating weapons? Might be a bit too late on how far you are into developing them, but it might fit their appearance as less "brute-force" race.

How about the TA, they are more similar to the Tec.

 

Reply #1064 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1060
Its possible. I made a star a particle effect for a ring world. You make the 'core particle effect' a flair and embed it in another mesh.

Haven't found a good alternative to the GS_Star Pipeline Effect, that is to create the plasma 'jitter' on the core surface.

BTW: Your welcome to use anything you have seen in my mod.

Kewl! I noticed your custom planets had sorta the opposite of what I wanted with a particle mesh surrounding the planet. I'll try and look at those effects and see how it lays out.

Reply #1065 Top

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1063
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062It was in D

In O (R5) I've reworked/simplified the pirates so they easier to manage. So will look at this in R6 as I translate the changes into E & D. 

looking forward to R6

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1063
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062Yes, but the AI can not handle it. It will build several Dread and when they level up the AI will run out of resources. So better apply the resource drain from start, it prevents more Dreads from spawning until the AI has more income.

I agree to a certain extent ... but it all depends on how much of a extra resource drain the super-ability will be. I was not thinking of doubling the drain (-2.5) but increasing it slightly (let's say -0.5).

a slight increase could work, but I'm not sure why to do so? The overall concept in sins is that you need to buy (pretty expensive) support  points to buy ships. Why would you give players a gift for the strongest ship in the game?

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1063
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062Mostly the weapons effects. When you have a battle "new" versus "old" race there is now a very big difference in effects.

You don't get something for nothing ... the chief reason way the effects look better is because they use more particles. Sins has restricted the total number of particles that can be active at one time. Once this 'ceiling' is reached then the particles stop being rendered. I'll look into the situation nonetheless so see what can be done.

I see. I have to say that I don't like the balance of ships in Sins, the difference in firepower is a little too big. I think about making small ships stronger (for more fleet point). This would also reduce the number of effects in battle?

Quoting soase-maelstrom, reply 1063
Quoting Quiet_Man, reply 1062btw. playing a little with the Vasaris, I recognized the new races miss a "rocket" race. Why not make the Norlamins go for intelligent weapons, like long range shield/armor penetrating weapons? Might be a bit too late on how far you are into developing them, but it might fit their appearance as less "brute-force" race.

How about the TA, they are more similar to the Tec.

Good point, yes the TA would be perfect. As you mention it I remember me playing TA first time and I was wondering about the lasers being a main weapon on the Dread. It felt a bit miss placed. Rockets would fit much better.

Reply #1066 Top

Hello,

My buddy bought me the steam version of sins which is called Trinity. From what I under stand it is just all the exp but into one game with a different name. But dose your mod work on the steam version? I own it under Impulse..er...Gamestop app and works fine on that version.

Thanks 

P.S. Your mod is getting better every time you update it exp. more balance, keep up the good work!

Reply #1067 Top

Yes, Trinity is just Sins+Entrenchment+Diplomacy.  There is no difference between the versions if you buy it on steam, impulse, or from Stardock themselves.  It is still the same exact game.

Reply #1068 Top

Quoting Stant123, reply 1067
Your mod is getting better every time you update it exp. more balance, keep up the good work!

Thanks

Reply #1069 Top

hey im having a problem enabling this mod, i cant seem to activate it and everytime i click "Enable mod" it just crashes, even though i have followed your instructions for smooth gaming. I have downloaded SoaSe via Steam. Also i have Trinity and i think thats updated to diplomacy 1.34, could that be the problem?

 

Reply #1070 Top

Quoting doctermushroom, reply 1069
Also i have Trinity and i think thats updated to diplomacy 1.34, could that be the problem?

No, you should only be missing a main button or two. If you have Sins Diplomacy updated to 1.32 then Maelstrom (Standard or Expansion) R5 should work OK.

Reply #1071 Top

I have done all your suggestions but i still crash. Do i have to wait a few minutes or what do i have to do?

 

Reply #1072 Top

Hi doctermushroom,

I can only think of three things that would be causing a mini-dump.

1. Going over 2GB of RAM (that is if you have 2GB+ of RAM. How much RAM have you got in your system?). Try lowering the effects setting further. Make sure you have minimal background processes which would be using RAM.

2. You have mixed up O, E or D versions of Maelstrom i.e put them in the wrong directories.

3. corrupt mod download

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Reply #1073 Top

I dont think RAM is the problem, I have 8GB of RAM so that should be fine. I will try downloading it again and see what happens.Thx btw for the help.

 

Reply #1074 Top

Quoting doctermushroom, reply 1073
I dont think RAM is the problem,
unfortunately with Sins RAM is always a problem with large mods. As a 32bit program Sins can only access 2GB (or less, 2GB is shared with other 32bit applications running) going over that limit will cause a minidump. The best way of managing the problem is reducing the texture resolution via the graphics effect settings. ... so if the problem persists try lowering the effects setting.

Reply #1075 Top

Ok, I didnt know that. Sorry for all these questions im just a complete noob at installing mods in Sins.I will try lowering the graphics settings so that i can finally try and play your mod. EDIT: I finally have your mod working and its awesome!