That is not exactly what I am saying. They do release unfinished games, and only unfinished games. The primary reason for this is because they believe in providing ongoing support and updates for games for years after release, so their games are basically never finished.

The games they do release are complete games, playable games, games that can be played and won or lost without a single update or patch on most systems (there will always be bugs on some systems with any game). So the game is "fully playable", but not "finished" on release.

I don't believe they have ever said it that directly, but if I recall correctly Brad has made statements about the fact that you can only get updates if you have a valid Impulse copy of the game and an Impulse account, and that the ongoing updates for their games are part of the way they encourage people to purchase them rather than just pirate. I am having trouble finding specific quotes right now, but I am sure I can find them in a little while if I look around.

I would also say that all this is not 100% intentional, and not 100% for the purpose of dealing with piracy. I think Stardock feels comfortable releasing a game as soon as it is fully playable in part for the reasons I mentioned, and in part because they believe that their customers, the ones that they know will buy the game, know that they provide support and improvements for years to come and will stick with them for the long haul. So they are willing to go "gold" knowing they will have a massive day 0 patch that will greatly improve the game, and then day 5, 12, 30, 48, 70, etc. patches to make the game far better still.

Since the final version is a couple years away at best they really can't wait that long. Basically games tend to get pirated in the first month, then the pirates move on. So if a major update comes down 6 months from now and you want it you are probably going to have to pirate it yourself or just buy the game.

As to PR, the games they release aren't unfinished, and are only minimally buggy. They are playable, and should return decent reviews. Also, since they don't get the massive attention of a game like Starcraft II, or even Mafia II, they don't have to send out a lot of pre-release version for review. They tend to get a fair number of reviews based on the post-day 0 versions, which results in better reviews.

They've went downhill over the past few years, but I never expected them to resort to borderline libel to generate interest.

This is reason why most developers dont talk to the public, it takes time and effort and people will then take it apart and create their own frankenstein of idea.

Release of elemental should have been better, i think. It will hurt the game when the sales would be largest. Manual should have been lot better, havent played the campaign so dont know if that would explain things. Problems mentioned in the pc gamer article, i have encountered that white battle map bug. But only in one of five battles and this was before 1.05.

Elemental is a very good game, it takes little effort to learn(not a bad thing all in all), im not very sure that i like the units art style. Map looks very nice thou. I have trust that stardock will fix issues and improve the game in time. There are companies that dont do this. In my opinion so what if release was bumpy/unplayable if the game keeps getting better. Elemental isnt a game you just play over few times, i still play galciv2, civ4 and others. If Elemental's stability is fixed, i will call this a great game. I have bought games that were instable at release, most stability bugs were fixed and this revealed those games downside, crappy AI, simple gameplay....

If AI will get the same attention it did get with galciv2... I will be a happy elemental owner. I dont regret buying Elemental at release, im enjoying it right now. Its like icecream with little rocks in it 

You have to see thing beyond the front here, elemental has potential and this is something that every game dont have.

Sorry to say this but, I wish StarDock would spend more time answering questions and responding to customer issues in the Elemental tech Support forum vs. responding to postings on other web sites!

Greg Vederman was the last of the "old guard".  Place fell apart when he left.

No no no you misunderstood me man! I wasn't attacking you, or your rig I know nothing about it or you, and my comment "Check your rig" wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at all the people who whine in the wrong place for the wrong reason.

And it has nothing to do with specs. Old machines with components that work properly are also suited for this game. It's just that you see and find components on the market that are completely useless yet they sell like gold.

Hmm....well complete game is a vague term. Almost every game that's ever been released, no matter how buggy and rushed, could be described as "complete"  by your standards given that it can be played and won and lost upon release.

Regarding PR, I guess we will see what reviews are like, so far the small number we have seen have been pretty negative and strongly disagree with your "minimally buggy" statement. But it's true that there are many more to come and maybe there is a huge number of glowing reviews coming as you seem to anticipate (personally I find it very unlikely, but you never know).

Yup. I guarantee I could build a machine for $2k that wouldn't crash and burn on half the games out there, and I could also build a machine for $700 that would run every game out there with virtually no problems.

also from the original rockpapershotgun article on the Gamer's Bill...  they never did like that second one 

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state...

...Point 2, for instance: There’s not a developer in the land that gladly ships unfinished code. This is something that regrettably occurs, usually because of publisher pressure, or simply running out of any possible time. It sucks when it happens, and we all certainly loathe having to wait for a patch, but it’s not as if there’s anyone out there gleefully rubbing their hands together and crying, “Aha! They’ll buy my game with a dodgy bug in chapter 3, the idiots!” And publishers hardly have it as a goal.

Developers and QA would always like more time.  It's the marketers and accountants that cause problems (they have different, but important priorities), and their evil minions, the project managers (or are PMs evil overlords? I can never be sure, which might be their greatest trick).

I haven't run into "unplayable" issues with 1.01, despite about 4 hours of play.  I've been confused about game mechanics, often, and it looks like the 1.05 campaign might address some of that.  That's clearly not the case for everyone. 

Oh sorry, I misunderstood!!!!!

I think people also underestimate the value of regular system maintenance like cleaning the registry, deleting extraneous and unnecessary files, and defragmenting the hard drive (basically, just run CCleaner and Defraggler every couple of weeks).  Even top of the line hardware won't do you much good if Windows is gummed up with junk.

The CEO has posted a clarifying statement: https://forums.elementalgame.com/392474

A very mature response I'd say!

I don't see anything broken with E:WoM. I bought it yesterday and played it into the wee hours of the morning forgetting that I had to work today. It feels ike the spiritual successor to MoM and what I'd hoped Age of Wonders was going to be. My only complaints are that unit design does feel a little thrown together and I can't figure out what tech and/or unit I need to build roads.. I know it's possible cuz I see the AI doing it all the time.

Personally I hope Stardock remains a strong contender in the gaming world. Impulse is a joy to use compared to Steam, especially since you don't have to have it running to play your games.

All games have bugs, Starcraft 2 in fact had the video card melting lack of a framerate cap problem at release, pretty sure it's patched now but I'm still nervous when I play it,

You build roads with caravans. Build a caravan and send it to another city.

The game is awesome to me and I have not had any crashes or UNPLAYBLE experience at all.

Ive played 6 hours and LOVED every second of it.

Well said bud, well said.

I agree that the game is not broken as some say.

YES there are some issues, but they are getting fixed.

I played for 6 hours yesterday and last night and I just loved my time with the game, rough around the edges, but a fantastic game non the less.

Wow really? Should he only give review copies to companies that give glowing reviews no matter what?

I'm telling my own friends to stay away from this game for now. It has POTENTIAL but that's all it has at the moment. Where is the fun at exactly? Is it in the AI that never attacks you in numbers? It would work better atm as a fantasy city/country builder than a strategy game inspired by MoM.

I still see a lot of potential for the game and I'm glad they made it moddable. I do not think its proper for people to praise the game based upon what it *might* be someday and ignore what it is right now. Nor is it proper to ridicule people who review the game based on what it is right now. If someone recommended this game to me and I spent the last of my free game money on it I'd want to punch them in the face.

I'm trying to like the game. I've played it as much as I can stomach it, but it just feels non-functional. The AI has not got a chance in the world against me. I build a couple stacks of soldiers and I can pillage the countryside at my leisure with no one to oppose me.

I guess you're right in that respect, but still. It's a professional review site right? These guys make money off reviewing games made by companies like Stardock. Also granted Stardock is an Indie and not one of the super major companies like EA or Atcivision. Still, I think the guy who did the article should of had a lot more Respect. Most people already know these sites are half crooked and the large companies Buy their reviews. As such there's a growing population of gamers that don't pay attention to what these sites say anymore when it comes to reviews because we've all seen Obviously crappy games get glowing reviews and I've seen a lot of games I thought were great get crappy reviews.

To me the article didn't have anything good to say about Elemental at all. All he did was go on and on about the bugs or flaws. You know how many bugs I've encountered while playing Elemental? One....just One. I had another one too but it was my fault for not deleting a left over folder before re-installing. I haven't ran into any of the bugs on the Support Forums. I haven't had the "White Screen" in battle thing happen since Beta 3 or 4. It leads me to think that most of the bugs people are running into has to do more with their hardware and drivers and less with how the game was written. The only "Game=Play" bug I had was I had a Darkling Camp that wouldn't produce Darklings and that I think was because I was using a custom race that wasn't defined the in the script for the Darkling camp.

The article writer didn't point out any of the good aspects of Elemental, not one. All he said was that Elemental was buggy and people should stay away from it. If you ask me maybe he should have tried playing the game on decent PC instead of whatever piece of shit he tried to play it with. If the bugs were really all as bad as he's saying there would be way more of us here on the forums running into them. I just think his article was completely unfair. He didn't point out all the hard work the Devs have done. All the long hours they've put in. The fact that things had to be pushed up ahead of schedule to make the release date, and then it was compounded and made even worse by the street date being broke. Stardock got screwed over here, big time, and no one is taking that into account except for a few of us here on the forums. That guy's article rode Elemental harder than a 15 year old Bangkok prostitute. That kind of bad press can tank a good game before it even gets off the ground. Plus having worked on Elemental I feel attached to it and want to see it succeed, so maybe I am a little biased. I just don't think he told the whole story and made it appear Elemental would act that way for everyone, which it obviously doesn't or there wouldn't be people out there like me who are having a good time and not running into a lot of bugs.

If you think he's approaching troll-status perhaps it's time for a self-check (as Socrates said "an unexamined life is not worth living" ). 

I admire standing up for friends, but there are times when 'tough love' is the best thing one can do for a friend, and when unquestioning support is unhelpful and even harmful (I'm speaking generally here to make a point, and am not accusing you of unquestioning support or the like).

And for the record I've had several energetic 'discussions' with Tridus where we strongly disagreed, and his handling of himself in said discussions  is how this respect was earned.

Some in the gaming press (PC Gamer UK) might as well be on EA and Blizz's payroll.

Good things come to those who wait. I cannot believe the flaming and whining! The sense of entitlement and need for instant gratification in people have reached levels beyond the shameful.

Usually, if you buy a product and are not happy with it then you point out the problem, and hopefully the manufacturer/dealer will care enough to solve the problem for you. Whereas you might not be guaranteed a very good resolution with some businesses, you can be darn-well sure that these developers are committed to making sure that this product is something that their customers are happy with. The only thing you need is the patience and cool-enough head to communicate what exactly the problem is as you see it. Already I've read some excellent threads that will surely help to resolve those things lacking in the product.

Am I happy with it? Not yet! Is the product playable? Yep! Did they violate their gamers' bill of rights? Let's ask that question down the road when the verdict is truly in on whether or not this game turns out to be something that the majority of customers are happy with, and whether the developers follow through with the months and years of support that they promise (which I have every confidence that they will).

Go take a drive with some zen music playing in the background, take the on-ramp onto the freeway, and sit in the rush hour traffic. That'll learn 'em some patience dabnabit!

That's actually an *extremely* good point.

I've been around for a long time,  and over the last 5 years,  companies have treated their games like orphans.  The last time I saw this kind of effort and integrity was Black Isle's support of Fallout 2 and Planescape.  They busted their butts to fix those games and keep the community posted.

Stardock's done a good job IMO of supporting the game,  putting in the time,  trying to correct what's wrong and improve things.  As you note,  other companies today would put in 8 hours and go home.

You're right about that, but there are also just technical issues with Elemental. My top of the bill i7 with a fresh Win 7 installation still crashes when I play this game for any duration (admittedly a lot less since the latest patches, and i saw Ati had put up 10.8 drivers so maybe that'll help too).

Stardock made a game that's tons of fun when it works, but for too many people doesn't work. You can't blame it all on faulty hardware or windows installations. Browsing these forums I see I didn't even get the worst of the bugs.

The fact that you reached the windows 7 desktop after a fresh install doesn't mean a thing. Granted, some PCs can't even go there for sure.

You have to be certain that the components in your PC are in good working order, the bios has the right settings for them, do the thing they say they do on the box, are compatible together, and that they can perform under load.

So check your drivers, do stress tests, both the multicore cpu stress tests, the gpu stress tests, and RAM stress tests. just to go on, you have to be sure also for your HD controller, Soundcard, chipset... the lists gets bigger every few years, as PCs become more complex, I know cause I started in the era of 80806, now those things were stable... but very simple in terms of complexity. Also back then, the manufacturers didn't try to mess with you cause the market was very small and the competition was almost non existent.

Also the fact that you bought an HP or an IBM or any other branded machine means nothing. You wouldn't believe the junk I occasionally find in such machines, but granted sometimes they are good builds.

As a starting point use prime95 for cpu and ram, and 3D mark or another variant for GPU.

100% agree!