OMG-IN1

Join Date 06/2011

My final (probably) Sed post

Well, to celebrate the update/Epoch IV, heh After many months (with hiatus) of playing mainly Sedna, and experimenting with a lot of builds possible for her, I've finally come to the one that I believe works best for me. In a nutshell, it's a slightly hedgieized version of nnnils' 'no-die' Sedna.

Favor: BotF.

Skills: 1. Heal 1; 2. IG 1; 3. HW 1; 4. Heal 2; 5. HW 2; 6. Sil 1; 7. Heal 3; 8. IG 2; 9. IG 3; 10. Sil 2. The rest is more or less self-explanatory.

Note: My experiments have led my to the conclusion Counter Healing is only worth it vs a very general-heavy matchup (3 generals) or vs another Sedna. Otherwise, there are much easier ways to deal with enemy's healers.

Gear: 1. Boots of Speed; 2. Nature's Reckoning; 3. Bishops; 4. Unbreakables; 5. Hauberk; 6. Vlemish.

Note: Vlemish + NR + Unbreakables combo grants a more than adequate mana supply for a Heal-only Sedna. Be precise with Silence, and you won't ever lack mana.

Pros:

- Levels very fast for a Sedna. Example.

- Practically immovable while holding a hp flag. Vs certain DG combos, can even 1v2 and win after lvl 5.

- Very mobile, great support. Your teammates will get that heal when needed.

- Extremely good for luring. Deceptively vulnerable, super-tough to kill in fact.

Cons:

- Not a killer. You will secure a lot of kills for your teammates with Silence and add a chunk of damage, but you won't kill anyone, as a rule.

- A lack of a true interrupt may hurt sometimes, though Silence is usually enough (at least, till 10).

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So, all someone needs to do is bring a large pot?

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So, all someone needs to do is bring a large pot?

A large port, maybe.

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Some fine tuning.

Typically, in a Cataract 3v3, you'll have enough for Cur1, BoS and Scalemail or Banded at WR3. I think Scalemail is preferable with high towers until the corners are down (as Sedna must be a very active tower pusher after lvl5/HW2).

Also, Hauberk is best replaced by Nimoth when playing vs a minion QoT. Other full minion builds and tower-heavy Rook are obvious candidates for Nimoth over Hauberk as well, though I honestly feel minion QoT is the only matchup where this choice it is totally justified.

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You MUST take at least 1 point in pounce *angry fist shaking*

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Look, no Pounce only really hurts vs Vial Rook, and Sed should never directly oppose Rook alone. As a solo build, it's not the strongest, Cloak-Pounce is obviously much better. But if we are talking skilled 3v3 with reliable teammates that don't leave you alone vs Vial Rook, that is another story.

Anyway, I've done strong Pounce and low Pounce builds, both Blood and Cloak, and I know I am on my best with this build. And if sometimes my best is not good enough, that's an altogether different issue

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Interrupt is always better then no interrupt

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Silence is an instant universal pseudo-interrupt with a good range. Two interrupts are better than just a single one, true, but Pounce is not an instant and has a pitiful range, so it's only useful while contesting portals. I get it after 10, if such a need arises.

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Alternative variation of the build, if you need high mobility very early on and prefer to be more armor-oriented overall (minions, Rook towers, etc.).

Favor: Swift Anklet.

Skills: Same as in the OP.

Gear: 1. Banded Armor->Hauberk->Groffling; 2. Scalemail->Nimoth; 3. Nature's Reckoning; 4. Bishops; 5. Unbreakables; 6. Vlemish.

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Swift Sedna vs Blood Sedna lvl 10 comparative statistics:

Swift (Nimoth, Hauberk, NR, Unbreakables, Vlemish) -- 4335 hp / 4234 mana / 1328 armor (34.7%) / 7.8 speed

Blood (BoS, Hauberk, NR, Unbreakables, Vlemish) -- 4635 hp / 4234 mana / 578 armor (18.8%) / 7.5 speed

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lol you get boots of speed.

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That's the first item I get I don't propagate this as a build to end all builds, but I suspect I have enough Sed experience at this point to formulate my own opinion The fact is, I was never half that successful with tanky builds. Getting Cloak is a more elegant solution tactically (great to jump in/out of combat), but, unfortunately, it's not too good strategically (adds zero map mobility, since naturally, you can rarely predict the exact course of events, and so you save it for emergencies only).

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After some experimentation - replacing BoS with another armor, I'm quite sure tank Sed simply does not survive in 3v3, especially vs high dmg matchup. Thus, in 3v3, either BoS + full IG, or Cloak are essential. In 2v2 - really up to the player.

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I still don't understand why people don't take banded armor on Sedna (with the exception of playing a build where you are taking magnificent presence)

Mind you with Sed you take it last...

But
550 gold for 400 life
vs
1750 gold for 600 life

One makes much more sense when I have minion idols to buy.

Itemization order
Blood
Monks
Unbreakable + Scaled Helm
Vlemish
Nimoth
Scaled Helm -> Nature's Rec
Banded
Idols

Some point late long game
Banded -> Groffling

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I do take it, just not as a permanent item, because I'm basically running with 1 armor. Both Banded and Scalemail are recommended as replaceable early-game armor pieces, of course.

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A bunch of additions/clarifications.

Favor: BotF.

Starting items: Monks, Totem of Revelation/Monks, Mana Potion.

Skill progression: 1. Heal 1; 2. IG 1; 3. HW 1; 4. Heal 2; 5. HW 2; 6. Silence 1; 7. Heal 3; 8. Counter Healing/IG 2; 9. IG 2/IG 3; 10. Silence 2; 11. Heal 4; 12. IG 3/MP 1.

After that, max out MP, get Silence 3 at 15, only then invest into Pounce. Getting one level of Pounce before the very late game is only justified if there is a lot of portal-locking game going on, and you feel you need two interrupts.

Gear (numbers correspond to chronological order): 1. NR -> 11. Doomspite Greaves; 2. BoS -> 10. J-Treads; 3. Scalemail->7. Unbreakables; 4. Banded->8. Hauberk; 5. Bishops; 6. Scaled Helm ->9. Vlemish.

Rook/minion QoT variation of this build substitutes Hauberk for Nimoth, tries to keep Scalemail for as long as possible (i. e., you get it at number 9), and gets Siege Demolishers (vs Rook only).

DG matchups:

Easy to push: Erb, Oak, DA, Reg, Ice TB, differently built Sedna, shield QoT, Oculus (early & mid game), UB (early game).

Somewhat problematic: nnnils-style hybrid Erb, Oculus (late game), Fire TB (mid game only), UB (only pro players that know to time their stuns well, and only after level 5).

Tough to impossible: minion QoT, Rook.

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I've slightly altered my skill build again. What I do now is: 1. Heal 1; 2. IG 1; 3. HW 1; 4. Heal 2; 5. HW 2; 6. IG 2; 7. Sil 1; 8. CH; 9. IG 3; 10. Heal 3; 11. Sil 2.

I think it's the optimum.

Postponing Silence 1 to (7) feels just about the right timing. God knows (6) is too early both mana-wise and given the rarity of serious ganks at that level. I think there were maybe half a dozen instances when I used Silence at (6) at all, and maybe one of them was effective (I recall it since it was a tough match vs nils' Erb).

Getting IG 2 at (6) actually allows you to put the purchase of BoS off (you'll need them later anyway to remain safe as other DGs, most notably, UBs, gain speed-enhancing passives) = to get Bishops earlier.

Getting Heal 3 at (10) is not a huge inconvenience. Most alpha strikes hit for ~1k or less, so Heal 2 still does its job of negating one alpha strike right away. The inability to dispel negative states hurts, of course, but I think the trade-off is more than worth it. Besides, (10) is not that late, realistically speaking.

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hey I like your post. If you're not too busy, I see you put a lot of input within the thread, can you update your main post with it, so people don't have to go through the entire answer posts to find something specific they want to know about sedna?

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There is a certain problem with it I'll pm pacov, and we'll see what we can do about that. I can always make a new post, of course, but I'd like to edit the OP, too.

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