Really?  The sov/hero level ups, the new combat mechanics, unit traits...

 They are on the right path, they just need to tighten up some "stuff" to make this awesome.  The scope of the polish needed: magic spells, techs, city building, AI, quests, combat mechanics... may be daunting, but it is attainable.

Even if they stopped here, the modding community could work wonders with this platform/engine.  I grant that the background story limited some usual fantasy tropes, but as a sandbox player I can make up my own lore.

 Imagine taking the AD&D monster manual and importing that into the vanilla game... 

I voted fair - the game crashed, videocard stopped working and after a few seconds I've noticed a reset. But that's ok for a beta.

My main problems are too few diversity in  terms of advantages/disadvantages ( units, abilities, techs, equipment ), too few summoning spells and so on. I want to play Pariden as a nation of mages that have unique spells, unique techs, strongest magical equipment  - I want them as different as thalans in Gal Civ 2 Ultimate.

One example - let them cast a spell that turns a mage unit into the arcane warrior of Dragon Age. Let them be different and play diferent as a result. Radically different as factions in C&C Generals: Zero Hour.

That problem plagued Elemental as well - basically even kingdoms and empires played the same. It's not Civ 5, it's a fantasy world.

I bought the Limited Edition of Elemental and I will buy future games - but please continue in the right direction. Right now you are at the level of Gal Civ 2 at the beginning...

I had voted good, BUT with a proviso, ie the crashes that happen involving the sound system, ie with all sound off, getting hundreds of turns, but with sound on, only 5 to 50 turns.

harpo

I'm still lurking an keeping a file with notes at hand while playing.

I voted Good.  I like the direction is going.

However, reading through the forum, I either don't know how to play or I am doing something very wrong.  I am usually at war with 3 other factions within 150 turns of the game.  The way everyone is talking about just roaming around with your sovereign and one other hero is completely lost to me.  I am usually being invaded by two or three armies at a time.  I have gotten my Sovereign to the "steam roller" level, but it wasn't until deep in the game because I was in a drag out fight with Altar, which got worse with the Tarth deciding to join in.  I had Altar to the west, Tarth to the south.  I must be playing wrong.  How the hell do you have time to just go wandering around!  Even when I do, I am usually surrounded by slags, drakes, one of the wilds, those damn blueish white snake--the easy creature usually around me is a cave bear, and maul usually kicks my ass.

Just my thoughts on a few issues:

1. I am not a big of fan of how much more magic was added.  It seems to have lost "only a few have access to the world's magic concept"  It is fine, but I think the game is departing from the original concept of a broken world with a select few "channelers" that have access to magic.
2. I would also like to see the marriages and children added back into the game.  I think that would increase with immersion.  I think there is a way to do it with the all the dynasty stuff that was in E:WOM.
3. I have not had that many crashes.  I can only really remember one.  I do get to start over quite a bit, because I die though.
4. I do like lonemessiah suggestion of increasing the cost of pioneers.  You could also leave their cost the same and have a cost associated with settling a new, city or making an outpost--gold+materials.  I also think new settlements and outposts need to have a construction time.  They should be major investments and it should take a little time for the them to take root.
5. I would like to see random events.  I do think you should be able to select them on or off.  Not that I want to make it harder, I have enough problems as it is, but the world should have some random chaos about it.

REALLY GREAT! I just tried it, and I had not been in the earlier betas, but I can say this is already way better than WoM got to be!

A few bugs do exist (It IS beta. :P) like portraits failing to appear, or sudden lag spikes in tactical (just once or twice).

A thing I did notice that is not there from WoM which makes no sense to me at least, is the utter lack of offensive spells that are not fire based.

I was hoping for a dart spell for each of the four elements or something, because when I fought the fire monsters, I suffered! And I had my character as a complete magician, like in having all schools.

So far it seems like Fire is offense, Air is buffs, Earth is defense buffs, and water is an oddball will blizzard, which is not that good for one opponent  at all.

Also a doubt... caravans are gone? because I got the trait of not attackable caravans, and yet they never appeared on my unit list.

But overall, it is still awesome.

Water also has Chaos and Pandemonium which do better damage and cannot be resisted. Water is pretty decent for summoning and damage.

I voted Good, in the current poll.  I applaud Mr. Wardell, Mr. Paxton, and the rest of the design team for all the remarkable work they have been doing!  To paraphrase comments I have previously made, in other Discussion Threads on this site:

              IMHO: FE is already Good; it is clearly getting Better; and I think, in time, it will be Great !

I also read the 150-plus comments made earlier in this thread.  (And all that small type gave me a headache, but that's another story.    )    In that regard, while acknowleging that, there are many good and productive comments, I am a little surprised at the number of folks who have used this thread as an opportunity to flame the game, or otherwise behave like Trolls.  However, I assume the design team will simply discount them.  Alas, there will always be some unhappiness in this world.  Que Sera, Sera ... 

And they say that the Flagellants were suppressed in the fifteenth century.

Hmmmm ... does seem a tad masochistic.  All I can say in my defense is that I have always been something of a compulsive reader ...

Also: Your replies #118, #120, and #159, to this thread, suggest something similar ...        

I think its because many of the gamers who post the more severe comments lack either the empathy to give criticism without sounding like an a$$hole or simply don't know how to temper their criticism so it is constructive. I also have to say that I think Brad made a couple of mistakes handling them in this thread. I love what he is trying to do, but seeing a developer respond pretty much with "if you don't like it go play something else" is not going to endear himself to fans and prospective fans of the game. Also to Brad: when you come across a particularly annoying and tactless post, its best to ignore it no matter how much satisfaction it might give you to tell them off. Your a dev, and held to a higher level of esteem and therefore responsibility to respect others than any joe schmo who logs in and flames. I think its best to pretend they don't exist, or if you have to respond provide a friendly reminder on how to be tactful like Brad did in his third response on this the thread, and I noticed he did seem to ignore some particularly nasty posts.

Now, in respect to the frequently brought up issue in this thread: choosing to spam outposts makes more sense as opposed to other decisions. I haven't tried the updated version yet, but if it is true that in pure numbers outpost spamming always beats other choices, that's something that merits consideration. Assuming this is the issue, do the developers really want there to be a right way and a wrong to play FE? I think telling everyone who is concerned about such a thing to go play something else is a real turn off to the consumer. You can start off "with all due respect" but that doesn't make the content respectful.

The updates trip my protection software. I had to reinstall twice. That is why I voted fair.

I love the developments around the factions - once all 8 factions have experienced the love the game should be another milestone forward. Something that I feel should be emphasized currently is GUI polish. (Loading screen is stretched on wide-screens, occasionally combat units lose their action buttons, the mouse cursor doesn't immediately update on contextual switches.)

PS - against all the naysayers - I HAD A RANDOM EVENT! Some kind of global meteor storm. Knocked me off my seat with surprise.

This is not a bad suggestion.  If they want to keep pioneers build times low, and also don't want to have separate units to establish settlements and outposts,  then maybe having a time frame to construct a settlement or an outpost is the solution.  It could take say 10 turns to actually build a settlement and 2 turns to build an outpost with a pioneer.

I voted Excellent in the poll, and I probably really should have gone with Good, but I was so pleased with the game I ended up spending most of the weekend with it. It's much much better than my limited experience with the early life of WoM, and I got the 'one more turn' bug early on. Great work, guys!

I think a lot of what people are talking about with pioneer spamming will be fixed as the AI improves. It may be a winning strategy now, but if you have an aggressive neighbor or two it will change the dynamic quite a bit. It reminds me of Starcraft 2 a little bit... Of course expanding 4 or 5 times right away in that game would be an excellent strategy if your opponent couldn't or never thought to attack you with even tier 1 units. As pressure from aggressive opponents increases, a lot of these 'meaningful' decisions will crop up. If you're under enough pressure, what you do with your time, resources and heroes should become more meaningful I think.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing the cost of pioneers increased slightly just to make them a little more of an investment. But even now, I challenge any one of you to a multiplayer duel... You go pioneer spamming and we'll see who wins.

As for Brad telling people to go play another game... Good for you Brad. Feedback is great, but at a certain point you have to stick to your principles and see them through to the end. Now get back to work on making the AI cheese a little more often. I can't wait for the day I get rushed by a bunch of spearmen as I'm settling my 3rd city and 3rd outpost. (Or better yet, having an AI scout me and recognize that I'm over expanding and then taking advantage of me... Or responding with a bunch of pioneers himself... Or... You get the idea...).

I voted good (at least).  This beta was a major jump to me; the affects were not subtle, and I am beginning to see the flavor this game will have when it's finished; what will set it apart.

Major Pros

• Monster AI and difficulty:  This is the first time I actually felt like the game reflected the premise: I felt that the world itself was much more dangerous, that it is alive with monsters, they are more likely to chase my units, and they are difficult.  No longer did I feel I had the ability to wander the countryside, slaloming between the 2 few high-level monsters that could actually damage me.
• Magic: Spells feel much more useful, plentiful, and accessible.  I am enjoying the variety, and would like to see more added.  Also, the artwork done for them is awesome.  Now THAT'S a wave of flame!
• Items: I love the new unique items for each faction.
• Weapon abilities: Back swing with axes, counterattack with swords...  both are awesome.  "Clink" in battle is a cool addition in that it provides more battle feedback, and I would like to see visual notifications that represent armor deflecting damage types (or other in-battle cues) more visible.

Major Con

• To-Win Formula: As others have iterated, and reiterated ad nauseum, there is a walkthrough for this game: spam cities and outposts, use your sovereign with a few champions to scour the countryside, don't train any armies until you have the winning technology combination, then steam-roll the enemy factions.  This is the result of three issues:

1. Once you clear an area, monsters will rarely (never?) attack your city or outpost.  Therefore, there is no need to have units guard your cities.  As the sovereigns and champions are so powerful, there is also little need to create many soldiers for their party.
2. Created units are exceptionally weak for long into the game.  Their powers greatly contrast with sovereigns and champions' abilities.  As a result, I currently use them for fodder: send them rushing at the enemy while my main characters attack with magic and arrows from the rear.
3. The technology tree, now simplified, feels like there is a clear right answer for every decision.  At most, it takes me a few seconds to decide which research to chose, and this is not because I am following an overall, well-thought strategy.  Please note: I am also very new to this genre, so I am not relying on much previous knowledge.
4. There does not appear to be effective AI to counter my city-spamming.  While expanding quickly does have its rewards, doing such a thing should also be risky.  In reality, trade and travel to distant outputs is inherently more risky, difficult and dangerous.  When a civilization over-extends (like Rome at the close of the western empire's days), the opposing forces and locals make the civilization pay dearly.  Can there be a meaningful choice when deciding to send pioneers over the horizon?    Can the more distant cities or outposts be made more vulnerable to the local and roaming fauna? If I was a roaming bandit and observed an undefended outpost miles from its country's nearest city, you'd better believe I would go plundering.  In summary: spreading yourself very thin should be a gamble, not an easy decision.

Minor Cons

• Spell type breadth versus spell depth: I would like to see enough spells and elemental spell specialization added so that there are meaningful choices when choosing which school of magic to pursue.  Should I invest deeply in fire magic, knowing I could be in trouble if I encounter an adept water mage?  Or should I balance myself by learning more spell types, knowing that I will not be as powerful with each type as a result.
• Technology tree: The technology tree feels over-pruned now (see number 3 above).  It doesn't have to be exceptionally dense, but I feel it is currently under-cooked.

P.S. In regards to some individuals' feedback: one of my wisest teachers always told me, "If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question."

I'm afraid you're correct.  It's things like these that have led me to the conclusion that I'm a pretty sad wanker.

So far its a big improvement over Beta 2, and I would say that you guys are easily on the way to making a great game. So far I would rate it as a B-.

Now for the beta it seemed on the 2 games that I played that the AI seemed rather lethargic. On the first game they would declare war on me and never attack my city, while on the second game the other plays empire strength never raised past 120, while mine was over 1300.

Now for some suggestions:

1. Casting a hostile spell on a city should be considered an act of war. Meaning you shouldnt be able to cast Curse city on a player that your not at war with. Also when a player casts a negative spell on your city or your units it should pop up on the information bar to let you know whats going on.

2. There needs to be more defense against enemy city enchantments. Perhaps add terrain bonus (Nightshade) from MOM, that would make your cities immune to enchantments if you built near it. Also some class specific city scructures would be nice. For instance one factions could have a 50% chance to reflect the magic back at the caster, while another faction could have a 50% chance to absorb the spell and add it to the players mana supply. etc...

3. I would like to see magic dueling, like we see in tactical combat, used on the strategic map. Make it to where a good portion of the enchantments on cities take 2 turns to cast, and that if a spell is being cast on your city you have a chance based upon your spell casting skill to detect the spell and counter with an interrupt, reflect, absorb etc..

4. Random Events......

5. More global spells... For instance didnt WOM have a volcano and flood spell? I would like to see these added back into the game. Also I would like to see some global enchantments added some for good and bad. Examples look at Master of Magic and Age of Wonders for inspiration. Also I would like to see spell detection, disjunctions, spell reflects and spell stealing added on the strategic game.

Examples:

a. Meteor Shower (fire) - Meteor's strike random points on the map outside of the casting players domain for as long as the spell is active. If a meteor hits a city the city loses a percentage of its population and some buildings are destroyed.

b. The great flood (water) - tremendous flooding strikes the world outside the casting players domain, preventing movement through flooded terrain and causing damage to units that are foolish enough to be out in the rain.

c. Draught (fire) - halves the food productions of all enemy players as long as the spell is active causing cities populations to starve as long as the spell.

d. Dawn of the Dead (death)  - Spawns aggressive undead units at random points on the map every turn. These units will attack caravans, destroy improvements and attack units.

6. Hero summons would be nice.

Woah, since writing my first feedback on the "easy" Level, I have not stopped playing. I guess the Sov OP thing still exists but...

The feeling you're going for is definitely right. My kingdom grows. Immersion 100 %. This is freaking awesome. I just defeated something called "The Ruin of summer". Twice. Most epic fight ever.

There was a small bug with this creature though, which is why I'm writing this. It could have killed me easily but decided to just defend and heal 8 HP per turn. So, I could kill it off with Flame Range attacks.

Don't feel bad about the criticism here guys, this here is going to be good game!

2 Suggestions:

1. Adding the dynasty system back in would be nice.

2. Also it would be nice to have a toggled option to give heroes/champions a chance of dying when they are defeated.

3. And add some way for injuries to be healed.

Agreed I would love it if you could purchase equipment with your units like you can do with champions.

I totally agree with everything DragonRider862 said. +1 Karma was a no brainer.

The second post (reply #57) is the most important of these because it explains exactly why the things that Frogboy seems to be believe are strategic decisions really are NOT. At least not in the current version of the game. The strategic choices that exist either have only one sensible answer (ie do I settle another city <yes>, do I build an outpost <yes>, what do I set my taxes to <0 most of the time>, do I build troops <no, not beyond what you need for a few monster killing stacks>) or the answer chosen doesn't really matter that much (ie where do I build my next city <pick a high grain/material spot if you can but the most important thing is that you DO build the new city>, what building do I build next <build anything that increases growth first, after that build anything with no maintenance>).

That isn't to say FE is a disaster. Far from it, I really like the way the rest of the game is going. The wildlands were an inspired move and the crunch/flavour is coming along. But I can't help feeling that a 4X game should have meaningful decisions about how you go about building your empire and right now they aren't that meaningful. With a bit of serious spreadsheet/notepad designing and then a few well placed changes to the numbers or mechanics I think they could be made meaningul.

The most worrying thing for me is that Frogboy seems to be saying that SD don't care about this. I'm almost certain that is a mistake. This is a 4X game, is being compared with other 4X games (particularly Master of Magic), being made by a company which gained much of its gaming reputation from 4X games (ie GC)... lets face it much of the target market is going to be 4X gamers. Saying that this game isn't for people who like typical 4X strategic decisions is... well, you get my drift!

There are few people owning up to excellent votes, so I will.  

Beta3 is excellent from the perspective that its a beta with ~5 months minimum left to go of development.  There was roughly 2 months between the launch of Beta 2 and the launch of Beta 3 and the differences from initial 2 to initial 3 were massive.  Now figure we have at least 2 more iterations like that to go through.  There is still significant work to be done, sure, and the game needs constant feedback and bug fixes.  But it has the time to get them.  

Combine the pretty significant potential that I think most people would agree FE has with the fact that there is massive pressure for SD to make sure they get this one right (hence: it's done when it's done) and I think the game is right where it needs to be for the finished product to be one that never leaves my hard drive.  

Some will argue I have too much confidence in SD, and maybe they're right.  But this game is fun already.  I play with a notepad so I can jot down bugs and ideas, but half the time I forget to record things because I'm wrapped up exploring around the next mountain and killing whoever tells me to get out of their territory.

Agreed your spell book needs to have tabs in it.

i.e. Unit Enchantment, City Enchantment, Tactical Combat Spells, Strategic Combat Spells, Summons etc...

I voted "good".

Balance has improved considerably, that isn't to say it doesn't still have a ways to go. It has a considerably shorter ways to go now though.

Quests are better. Getting a good bow for my Tarth sovereign was very nice. As was the Shadow world spell I picked up (a bit overpowered for the level I got it at though). On a note, don't go overboard with spells as quest rewards. It could unbalance the game quickly.

Cities need more to do and make them unique from each other. Not just a couple of buildings giving a small bonus. Special unit production? A special spell that can only be cast from a city with a specific building?

As an additional aside I see a lot of people agreeing with me that cities need more specialization and uniqueness while Stardock keeps saying cities need to be smaller and look more the same. Why the big disconnect?

The two areas that I think really need a massive focus going towards beta 4 are stability and story. The game has massive memory issues and crashes. The first few turns have some nice splash screens then all the rest of the story is told in quests you only randomly come across and it has no story continuity. Starting civ based quests perhaps?