Unknown_Hero

[Feedback][Major Flaw] Economy/Production, Farms Everywhere.

[Feedback][Major Flaw] Economy/Production, Farms Everywhere.

Beta ver 0.41.2

Economy/Production system.

Currently, in GalCiv III, the Economy/Production system is entirely based on Population.

Explanation here: GalCiv III Economy 101.

"The Economy/Production formula works like this:

(Population * AllocationPercentage) * (1 + ImprovementMod + PlanetMod + StarbaseMod + RacialMod) = Output"


In the current version of the game, with this formula, the Population will always be the biggest modification factor.


This means it will always be better to increase the Population.

So, it's always better to build a Farm instead a Manufacturing/Research/Wealth Improvement.

You need/want more Manufacturing Points, build a Farm --> more Population, more Manufacturing Points.

You need/want more Research Points, build a Farm --> more Population, more Research Points.

You need/want more Wealth Points, build a Farm --> more Population, more Wealth Points.

You need/want more Approval, build a Farm --> more Population, more Wealth Points, more Approval.


All you need is Farms... ...Farms is all you need!

*

Here a saved game, just with Farms construction.

Galaxy Size: Small
Galaxy Type: Random
Opponents: 3
Intelligence: Godlike

No change to the default Production Spending for the whole game (Wealth/Research/Manufacturing 33% / 33% / 33% - Social/Military 50% / 50%).
No rush buy for Improvements.
No rush buy for Ships.
No Ship design (only default game ships).

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The improvements should have base Production Points, and the formula should be changed so that the Improvement Production Points is always the biggest modification factor, the Population only increasing this factor.

Also, in the currrent formula, the PlanetMod and RacialMod are not so great modifiers (only added, not multipliers).
For example, the Racial Trait "Productive +2" (+25% Total Manufacturing) is less than an Industrial Sector (+30% Total Manufacturing).


So, the current formula should be revised, where the Improvement Production Points is the biggest modification factor, and where the Racial/Planet Event/Planet/Starbase/etc. bonuses have greater impact.

Example: (Population * Allocation Percentage) * (Improvement Production Points + Improvement Bonus) * (Racial Bonus + Planet Event Bonus + Planet Bonus + Starbase Bonus) = Output


*****

Production Wheel. All or Nothing.

The current system for distribution of Production with the 3 interlinked "sliders" promotes the hyper specialization of planets.

Aside from the Population problem.

Choose the greater bonuses for a planet and totally specialize the planet (it does not really matter currently because they are not so very significant).

Ex: If the Planet/Civ/etc. bonuses for Manufacturing are 50%, and Planet/Civ/etc. bonuses for Research are 75%, choose to completely specialize the planet to Research by building only Research improvements, and set the planet spending to 100% Research once all the improvements are build.

By doing this, you avoid to pay Maintenance for Improvements you don't use (ex: if you build a planet with 50% Research and 50% Manufacturing improvements, and set the spending to 100% Research or 100% Manufacturing).


I think the 3 sliders should be completely independent and act as "Investment" sliders.


**

Also, change the order of size for values when percentages are used to avoid any rounding issues and other.

1 unit of Population (billion) produces 1 production point per turn.
--> 1 unit of Population (billion) produces 1000 production points per turn.

*****

Greetings.

305,601 views 32 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting peregrine23, reply 25

I'm not sure where this math is coming from. The formula for getting manufacturing is:

You need to include the faction-wide, planetary, and starbase bonuses to manufacturing somewhere in that equation, and the location where they appear to be included is an addition to the production multiplier. Unknown_Hero has assumed that DARCA1213's 100% manufacturing is a 100% bonus to manufacturing production rather than a slider setting; where this bonus comes from is indeterminate, but it's where the extra +1 in the production multiplier comes from.

 

Also, to Unknown_Hero: you have my apologies for the tone of my previous post.

Reply #27 Top

Hi all!

Just want to make a small contribution to this very interesting discussion.

Ive found the formula for the optimal number of farms to be:

X=L/2 + 5B + 3

Where X is the number of farms
L is the planetary level (and number of factories is hence L-X
B is other manufacturing bonuses

This formula assumes:
Only basic factories (+10 %) and xenofarms (+2 food)
Does not take into account adjacency bonuses
Does not take into account time factor

It was derived from the manufacturing formula as follows:
MFP (X) = (2X+8)*(1+0.1(L-X)+B ), where MF is the manufacturing points and X the number of farms.

Although my mathematical skills are not that high, so I cant guarantee that it is correct.

Assuming no other bonuses ( B=0 ):
The optimal number of farms for a level 6 planet is 6
The optimal number of farms for a Level 10 planets is 8
The optimal number of farms for a level 20 planets is 13

 

But what the formula also shows is that manufacturing bonuses ( B ) is a huge factor that really benefits farms.

 

Sincerely

Reply #28 Top

I wonder if anyone will make a spreadsheet

Reply #29 Top

A single antimatter power plant does some crazy shit when paired with 7 LF (lossless farms). With 3 more factories im at 1,000 production and swimming in credits.

At this rate lord kona will be my man servant. :3

 

Reply #30 Top

@trumpeter87

From what I can tell, he's just trying to point out a concern about how production and population relate and provide meaningful feedback.

And I, for one, am glad he brought this up (even though I disagree with his main assertion) because it got people discussing something I hadn't given much thought to, which will inform my strategy going forward.


This exactly, thanks.

@joeball123

Also, to Unknown_Hero: you have my apologies for the tone of my previous post.


No worries.

@NemoStardust

But what the formula also shows is that manufacturing bonuses ( B ) is a huge factor that really benefits farms.


Also my point for the Manufacturing bonuses "( B )".

@twilight024

I wonder if anyone will make a spreadsheet


;)

@DARCA1213

A single antimatter power plant does some crazy shit when paired with 7 LF (lossless farms). With 3 more factories im at 1,000 production and swimming in credits.

At this rate lord kona will be my man servant. :3


Don't forget to add some Starbases, and he will crawl to kiss you feets.

Reply #31 Top

Funny, me and joeball usually agree on everything. Its ok.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting twilight024, reply 28

I wonder if anyone will make a spreadsheet

You don't seriously believe I've been doing this by hand every time I did one of these calculations, do you? Whether or not it'll get distributed is a different question; with the game only at version 0.41, I don't intend to make it available any time soon. No one will benefit from having a spreadsheet that works out the optimization problem if the optimization problem isn't the one that the spreadsheet was made to answer.

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