MS’s update policy for W10 will be…interesting.

from JoeUser Forums

 

Because the upgrade from W8.1 to W10 will be free for many, I wondered about how MS would make money. After all, it has pretty much given up on the phone part of the mobile market…

So, I figured ‘renting’ like in the Adobe model might happen. Wrong.

Turns out it will be ‘device specific’. You can get to see it here (a .pptx file). WHile it’s all worth a look, the bare bones is the slide which states:

"Revenue allocated is deferred and recognized on a straight-line basis over the estimated period the software upgrades are expected to be provided by estimated device life," the most pertinent slide stated. "[The estimated device life] can range from two to four years." – MS

Microsoft has repeatedly said that the free updates and upgrades for Windows 10 would be tied to what it has called the "supported lifetime of the device." So, you’ll be buying a new device, and W10 will be part of that price…planned obsolescence never looked so good (granted, an odd thing to say about W10).

Also in the slides MS says “We think of Windows as a service---continual updates over time.” Obligatory, mandated updates…and various types of customers (business, home user, etc.), not device type. Thus, the OS itself might just have the ability to decide what kind of ‘customer’ you are, and what features you’ll get…maybe. This is just a possibility instead of the customer choosing his ‘service’ level.

It’s worth reading about here: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2945796/microsoft-windows/microsoft-to-provide-free-upgrades-to-windows-10-for-2-to-4-years.html

61,402 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

I wouldn't read more into the accountant/executive-speak than is really there. Microsoft is notoriously bad at communication to begin with, so there is usually less there than it sounds like, even in normal-speak.

Simply put, they intend to make money on new license sales. Upgrades have never been a significant source of revenue, so this is not a new thing for them.

For purposes of projections, they have to make an estimate of how often consumers will buy new devices. Those estimates are probably very optimistic. I wouldn't expect Win10 to be a game changer for people who have been holding off. Businesses of course have warranty and support lifecycles to factor in, but consumers will generally just use it until it doesn't work any more.

Note, the distinction of consumer vs. business is based on Windows edition (home/enterprise/etc).

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This seems to promote rapid turn over in devices...I'd much rather see modular devices which would encourage less waste and pollution.

Why can't tablets use the same tech as the modular cell phone? [Google's Project Ara].

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Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well I've sat here and pondered this and decided that really all a person can take from Microsoft's statements are that Win10 will be device-specific, much like the OEM versions of previous Windows.  The "Estimated device life" that they use to book their income really doesn't matter to me, although at this point I'd think their Accounting firm might have a problem with it - I'd guess that they've been booking income a little more rapidly than reality has indicated recently.

Microsoft has repeatedly said that the free updates and upgrades for Windows 10 would be tied to what it has called the "supported lifetime of the device."

I've decided that without definition of "supported lifetime of the device" this is essentially a meaningless phrase other than indicating the license is tied to the device.  I.e., they're still not saying how long the updates will be free or what exactly happens after the free updates run out.  "Supported lifetime of the device" may or may not equate to "Estimated device life" (but I would think a little consistency would be in order there.)

I would really, really, really hope that after "supported lifetime of the device" runs out, especially if that's only 4 or 5 years, then some sort of reasonable annual subscription rate would be an option.  Forcing hardware obsolescence at that point seems ridiculous to me (but so do many other things that do indeed happen).

Yes I would imagine when it's all said and done it will cost more over some period of time to run Windows, unless of course a person has always replaced their desktops frequently.  Sure would be nice for Microsoft to at least define the terms before people start pumping it into their computers.  I'm starting to wonder if it's just going to be buried in some license agreement that "nobody" reads.

Bottom line: They're still not talking.  Not really.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

i thought the whole point is to get as big a base of users as possible on win 10, then try to monetise via their store a la apple and what not (on the consumer side anyway).

 

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incidentally... i don't suppose anyone know if it's possible to downgrade back to 7 once you upgraded to 10 if you don't like it?

that is.. would the 7 key still be valid?

Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well I got a little bored and started poking around.  I came across this (sizable) list of FAQ's on Microsoft's site:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/wiki/insider_wintp-insider_install/frequently-asked-questions-windows-10/5c0b9368-a9e8-4238-b1e4-45f4b7ed2fb9

That's just "Group 1" of FAQ's, note that there is a "Group 2" link close to the top of it.

In "Group 1", maybe about halfway down (?), there is this:

________________________________

"What does lifetime of the device mean?

This is still being debated, but the logical conclusion is as long as the machine is operable, it will continue to support it with updates. So, if the machine still works 5 or 10 years from now, revisions and updates to Windows 10 will be made available to it. Please note that Windows 10 uses the same life cycle policy of 5 years mainstream support and 5 years extended support."

_________________________________

(Now honestly, that first sentence is promising to me but it really doesn't instill complete confidence.  "This is still being debated, but the logical conclusion is...".)

 

Further down, maybe 3/4's, there is this:

_________________________________

"When I upgrade a preinstalled (OEM) or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 license to Windows 10, does that license remain OEM or become a retail license?

If you upgrade from a OEM or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 to the free Windows 10 upgrade this summer, the license is consumed into it. Because the free upgrade is derived from the base qualifying license, Windows 10 will carry that licensing too.

 

If you upgrade from a retail version, it carries the rights of a retail version.

If you upgrade from a OEM version, it carries the rights of a OEM version.

Full version (Retail):

 

- Includes transfer rights to another computer.

- Doesn't require a previous qualifying version of Windows.

- Expensive

 

Upgrade version (Retail):

 

- Includes transfer rights to another computer.

- require a previous qualifying version of Windows.

- Expensive, but cheaper than full version

 

OEM :

 

OEM versions of Windows are identical to Full License Retail versions except for the following:

- OEM versions do not offer any free Microsoft direct support from Microsoft support personnel

- OEM licenses are tied to the very first computer you install and activate it on

- OEM versions allow all hardware upgrades except for an upgrade to a different model motherboard

- OEM versions cannot be used to directly upgrade from an older Windows operating system

"

________________________________

Quoting alaknebs, reply 4

incidentally... i don't suppose anyone know if it's possible to downgrade back to 7 once you upgraded to 10 if you don't like it?

that is.. would the 7 key still be valid?

In the same FAQ Page, about 1/3 of the way down, there is this:

________________________________

"Can I uninstall Windows 10 if I do not like it or something goes wrong?

Yes, you can see the following: How to: Rollback....."  with a link to here: 

https://techingiteasy.wordpress.com/2015/03/24/how-to-rollback-to-a-previous-version-of-windows-from-windows-10/

I didn't read the whole thing, I don't know if you need to go through all that to use the previous key.  I also don't know that I'd completely trust the process.

 

So if anybody's really interested in Windows10 the FAQ pages might be well worth the trip.  There's a lot in there.  Sorry about the long post.

Reply #6 from WinCustomize Forums Top

If MS still thinks like Adobe i dont know what would happen next.Renting every month is not a good idea.You buy tv that means you're not renting it.i just hope the expiration would take longer just like before and better than 1 month.The PC sales is dwinling.Users are switching to other devices.

Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Why does MS continue to do stuff like this? Makes no sense to me.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Uvah, reply 7

Why does MS continue to do stuff like this? Makes no sense to me.
they make lots of money.

 

Reply #9 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Lots of money for them but lots of headaches for users. I think maybe I'll keep what I have until there's no longer support for them.

Reply #11 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well, it seems that the Home user's path will have mandatory updates...no choice. If they break anything (which they're sure to do based on past performance), that'll be "Oh, we made a boo-boo, but it's covered in our EULA...just start over and re-install everything."  ;P

 

So...be sure to be making backups often...certainly before "updating".

Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top

^Im exactly on DOcs side on this... other than that im not totally against it since it could serve for a better user experience but only if each updates gets proper testing, un fortunatly MS isnt known for that. thikning about a screw up gives me shivers

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

MS’s update policy for W10 will be…interesting.

Define "interesting"...

 

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

jafo, it does sound accurate for the ms sourced issues.

harpo, the ghost NON-subscriber

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting DaveRI, reply 5


In the same FAQ Page, about 1/3 of the way down, there is this:

________________________________

"Can I uninstall Windows 10 if I do not like it or something goes wrong?

Yes, you can see the following: How to: Rollback....."  with a link to here: 

https://techingiteasy.wordpress.com/2015/03/24/how-to-rollback-to-a-previous-version-of-windows-from-windows-10/

I didn't read the whole thing, I don't know if you need to go through all that to use the previous key.  I also don't know that I'd completely trust the process.

 

So if anybody's really interested in Windows10 the FAQ pages might be well worth the trip.  There's a lot in there.  Sorry about the long post.

 

um.. i just read something about the keys... (ignore the goback bit about 3rd party tools... it's not relevant and no idea if it's any good.).. doesn't state source though... it says... within 30 days of win 10 installation, you can go back to win7/8/8.1 and the old key will still be valid. so i assume if you don't do it in the 30 days, you'll be stuck with win 10. wonder what happens if you don't write down / lost your win 10 key and only have your old win7 disk and all and had to do a clean install.. xD

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/07/22/downgrade-windows-10-with-easeus-system-goback/

 

and the bit about retail license update (retail 7 -> retail 10). not sure. my original plan was to get a new machine.. install (transfer) my retail copy of 7 (same one i'm using now) and upgrade there... (and convert the old 7 to mint or some other linux as a backup machine rotting away unused) i think i'll stick with that than try upgrading it to 10 on the current machine, then clean install the same 10 over there.

i'm not sure how accurate that faq is.. it's more like a wiki collation of quotes and what not than official ms faq i think.

Reply #18 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Ya there's no doubt that right now it's hard to know what information to trust.  If that guy's sources are good then I imagine the FAQ is good, if not, well...

I wouldn't bet my blood pressure on anything that's come out about it at this point.  I suppose a lot of it depends on how much fun a person might be inclined to have fooling around with it.

Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Hopefully by this time next week I'll have my new laptop. It has Win 8.1. I want to see how long I can resist upgrading to 10.