I survived my first one somehow

from Stardock Forums
Survived my first tiny/rare/5xI/tight game, though my cable modem decided to fry so I can't submit :(

I started off in the lower left corner in with Sol and another yellow star. Only one colonizeable planet in either system though and I was able to get a system up one grid from Sol so I had three systems in the beginning. The robots were penned up in the system next to me to right and the Drengin were in the lower right but had two colonized planets in their home system plus they had grabbed a planet from the Yor later, they were a problem from the start. Everyone else but the Yor had one system also. Basically I did what jn64 outlined, trading techs back and forth till I got transports. My stats were not all that great, I had cut back on Diplomacy and picked up Luck, Creativity and +10 Military Production. I think I'll keep the Mil production next time but drop luck and creativity. I really didn't see any realized benefit from these two (though they may have helped behind the scenes). The lack of diplomacy made so the AI wouldn't give a single bc to me for anything no matter what I was throwing at it. Somehow I was surviving the early the early action by keeping out the way. I threw all my trade routes at the Drengin to keep them off my backs and for everyone else, if I had a tech and they wouldn't trade to me I just gave it to them to keep them happy. For some reason everyone was sending thier traders to me and this was even before the wars started and I was keeping em happy with stuff. This helped out immensely since I wasn't getting tribute. After getting transports I used my trusty USS Hero (which managed to nab a +1 attack)plus one transport and took out the Alexians who were two grids north of Sol. Nice class 24 planet. The AI really needs to pay more attention to defense at higher levels. Later in the game I did the same to the other minor, fun fun fun. By this time all the AI's had battleships and where merrily beating up on each other while ignoring me. I concentrated on research techs they didn't have and grabing resources freed up by the wars. I was still way behind on the tech (never really did catch up) but I had battle cruisers and was building them on all my worlds to keep my appearances up. The discovered 200 Corvettes and went a bit crazy. At first they demanded tribute from me but I told them to kiss my at sign, stringer, stringer. The reply was hilarious "So, monkey boy has a spine". Later they decided that I should never be free again so I took two battle cruises a few transports and took their only remaining world. Seems they should have left just a couple of those corvettes at home, oh well thier loss, my gain. About this time the Altarian decide that the universe is a cruel place so they up and surrender to the Drengin, who were once again the supreme military power in the galaxy with the demise of the Yor. The Torian homeworld fell to me a few turns later and that just left the Arcean, Drengins and I. Here I just used jn64's finishing strategy. I used CultMax and just culture bombed the rest of the galaxy into submission while dumping as much money as I could affort into destabilization.

I'm not really sure what was keeping me alive, all strategy fell apart due to the lack of good diplomacy so I mainly went with the flow. The best tool that did keep me alive was use of my time-machine. I don't play ironman tactics and save before every major decision just in case I screw it up. I did this early in the game when deciding whether or not to buy Translators. I did and it screwed me up. I couldn't get tribue so I was bleeding negative red, even without spending I was making -21bc a month! I think all that trading kept me alive and maybe the luck and creativity helped out by keeping most of the negative events ways from ME. Who knows and I bet the GalCiv gods have a suprise in store for me next time I play.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Good job on your win, Robert.

Practice makes perfect. You will get the hang of Maso.
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Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Congrats.
You shouldn't consider "bad diplomacy" ment no tribute. You will never earn any money from a major ort starting minor on maso, whatever your diplomatic bonus (even at +100% or more).
Not playing ironman, though, will hinder your learning more than help, imo, because you won't see as many different situations (sometimes you have to redo it from almost the start, as well restart from the start).
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Not playing ironman, though, will hinder your learning more than help, imo
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When I know its not going to work to did restart as I did when I decided to buy diplomatic translators. My treasury was below -500 and I was gainging -21 a turn without any spending. I couldn't build or research and I was going deeper in debt each turn. Sure I could have sat there turn after turn hoping, praying, more trade ships would show up, but entering a hole I knew I couldn't dig out of at that level. Using the time machine does help you, imo, because you can try things different ways to see what does work.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Good job.

After a few games you'll figure out which techs the AI values and what it doesn't, and which it goes for when researching. That will help you out a lot in keeping up technologically.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, the Galciv gods ARE getting thier revenge in the game I started today. I'm the whipping boy of the galaxy, right off the bat everyone started asking for tribute. The only ship I've got available in the beginning is a scout..do any of the other ships have a better military rating? Finally I was able to get star fighter tech and started building up a fleet but as soon as I slow down to try to get some more research everyone elses fleets take off and they start banging on the door asking for more tribute than I can afford! One good thing from being at constant war with the Drengin, for some reason the Altarians and Yor keep giving me corvettes and starfighters. I'm in a corner of the galaxy, sole sector with 3 systems colonized so I'll just have to weather this one out to see where it goes. I don't want to give up any of the systems in my own sector as tribute but I don't have any techs right now to trade off for peace. Much different game than before and now I'm at war with the Arceans since they feel I'm a pushover. War-Drengin and Arceans, Hostile - Yor....
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
After a few games you'll figure out which techs the AI values and what it doesn't, and which it goes for when researching.
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I just realized something after getting back to work. No other race has developed diplomatic translators yet. Diplomacy techs and medical techs seem to be looked over as well as most nano-techs. Late in yesterday's game the Altarians gave me Battleship Technology for Nano Electronics. Granted they had Dreadnaughts by this time but they came to me with the trade, not vice versa. I just need to figure out how to keep the military superior races from tributing my butt to death long enough to get some techs that they actually want to pacify themselves.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I have lost the race to diplomatic translators before when I was 100% military in an early colony rush on a huge or gigantic, abundant, scattered galaxy. I kept making my colony ships every 2 turns and then got the message they had been researched. Sorry I can't recall whether it was a major or a minor but it can happen. I alway consider diplo translators my first trade good and lease it to get it and then go tech brokering. But, I have not played crippling or masochistic and sometimes (like today)I have to make a comeback to win on painful, so my hat is off to you. Nice job. :)

Rick

~SDC~
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Using the time machine does help you, imo, because you can try things different ways to see what does work.
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Re reading myself I may have sounded extreme. I think it is very interesting to reload in order to understand how the game works (that is you don't know why an ai declares war and check for different things to understand it, or look at the effects of Diplomatic Translators on ai's on maso), whereas saving/loading to get a better turn makes games tedious.

No other race has developed diplomatic translators yet. Diplomacy techs and medical techs seem to be looked over as well as most nano-techs.
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Yes, they don't research these immediately. In my last games, I researched Comm Theory and Universal Translators, immediately met the Arceans, and could trade both techs with them for whatever-it-was. Medical techs are even less researched, but all of them sell quite well.
Did you consider paying the tributes? In my previous maso win, that's what I did all the time (except for planets or if I'd be stuck at less than -500 for more than 2 or 3 turns).
Offering techs and small amounts of money can usually increase relationships to the point where you can turn off the worst offers("Give us Sol!") without the ai declaring war. Putting the ai's at war against one another is also a good way to avoid their turning their eyes on you too often. Just never let fall the relations rating of your neighbours below normal or cool.
About starfighters: What map size are you playing? On tiny, starfighters rock as military rating boosters, but on bigger maps, I think they are quite useless.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
About starfighters: What map size are you playing? On tiny, starfighters rock as military rating boosters, but on bigger maps, I think they are quite useless.
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I'm playing tiny but I didn't have starfighters yet, just scouts. The Yor were asking for twice as much money as I had and at that time my economy was very small. Later I had most of my trade routes going to the Arceans, things were going but in the course of two turns they decided that I needed extermination. For my next one I think I'll go back to 70% Diplomatic bonus. That seemed to keep me alive in the first game to the point where I could win. I did trade for transports early but the Arcean homeworld was heavily defended and I didn't have enough clout to bribe them into any wars. I played the game to the end and watched as the combined dreadnaughts from the Yor, Arceans and Drengin reduced my population to thin red paste.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
You don't really need scouts on tiny. You can use one (maybe two, but that's IMO a waste of production) to make contact fast with the other civs, but the survey ship does it quite well too. Once you've uncovered every star, scrap the scouts or give them to someone you don't like. That'll be 1bc per turn maintenance for them.
Yes, without the diplo bonus, things are rather hard as you have more trouble convincing the ai to leave you alone. But that's why it's all the better when you win. ;)
It seems to me the Arceans are the most prone to declaring war 'because your lack of military ...'. Maybe Torians too?
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Yes, without the diplo bonus, things are rather hard as you have more trouble convincing the ai to leave you alone. But that's why it's all the better when you win.
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I'll to enjoy that win later I guess. The first game must have been a fluke for I was thoroughly beaten the next three in a row when I had low diplomacy. I didn't even bother trying to find the other races and tried to be an isolationist until I had some research under my belt, but that didn't work either. I guess next time I'll have to bleed red for awhile after the demands, though I have no clue how to survive that. Two consecutive turns last game I had the Yor, Arcean's and Drengin all telling be to give them Sol or else....I chose or else. Even when I did get frigates I was still behind and them dang dreads tore me up. I couldn't even keep half way up with the drengin military, they were increasing their strength by an entire graph square each round....insane production..

Signing off for now, Robert the whipping boy.
I'm off to try a painful gigantic.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
I didn't even bother trying to find the other races and tried to be an isolationist until I had some research under my belt, but that didn't work either.
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Do the exact opposite. I made my last win because I met Arceans asap (same turn I got the translators). That ment 2 free techs before the Arceans would research them themselves. I then met the Torians 2 turns later, and could get more techs, and then the Drengins, and I had some techs to give to them since they looked so powerful (they were good, so more reliable than the usual Drengins).
You should try not building a frigate, or, in fact, any military ship. Paying your way out of war will be less expensive than building and maintaining a fleet in the first place, particularly if the fleet is unable to deter the Yor from attacking you.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
You should try not building a frigate, or, in fact, any military ship. Paying your way out of war will be less expensive than building and maintaining a fleet in the first place, particularly if the fleet is unable to deter the Yor from attacking you.
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I have a big problem with this, since every race was hitting me EVERY TURN. So..are you suggesting just research research research until cultural maximization then doit that way? Constantly paying tribue makes it very hard to research or build anything since it puts me always in the red under -500.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Check my AAR in the Masochistic Strategies thread. I maintained good relations with everyone and didn't build a single ship until I had Dreadnaughts. Now that was an extreme case but the point is that you really don't need a military. You just have to give gifts fairly regularly, preferably tech since it doesn't cost you anything. It's not unusual for me to not build any military until I have Battleships and combat transports. I had one game where my first ship was an Avatar and I could probably have won that one and a few others purely culturally if I'd felt like it, and never built an offensive ship at all.

If you're going the peaceful route, I find the best strategy is generally to research just enough to keep up--every few turns research a couple techs that the AI doesn't have, and trade them for all of the many techs that the AI does have. During the trading you'll have plenty of opportunities to give gifts and to bribe others into wars. The rest of your money through the early game goes into social improvements, and later into constructors so you can poach resources.
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
The rest of your money through the early game goes into social improvements, and later into constructors so you can poach resources.
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Yeah, I had fun doing that in the one maso I've won so far. Once the wars broke out I was able to grab all the resources on the map.