Suggestion: beefing up new minors

I agree, at the moment I have to invade them just to stop others from doing so.
The effect should be a little random though. The new civ should have varying:
Planet Quality, starting population, ships, tech and planet improvements already.

As it is now its as if it was just colonised, not just discovered. Having some random
factors will mean you can have different strategies for dealing with them.

As for the I-league etc I am quite happy with it as is. IMO they cannot suddenly get ships from nowhere
when planets flip etc.

~SDC~

I agree with von Schmidt. Later game minors are just candy for whatever race can get to them first. In my recent Maso game, it was a quick source of 10k credits from a 4-turn "deal" for techs he didn't have... which coinceidentally was also how long it took one of my transports to get to their world. No more minor, I get a new colony. Not much of an impact on the game.

I agree, late-game minors should really be able to fend for themselves--else, what's the point?

Agree, all event minors should start with a couple of decent warships for defence at the very least.

~SDC~

I was thinking that "event minors" should start with huge racial ability boosts, to enable them to keep up. Something like +500 to cultural resistance, soldiering, production, weapons, defense, and research. Also, giving them a better PQ planet would be nice; with a single 16 PQ planet, the new minor isn't going to survive long.

Also there's a bug in "event minors" tech level. They start with tech equal to the human player, rather than tech equal to the most advanced player. This was in 1.05; don't know if it's still present.

Not sure I agree. When a new minor race appears with my tech level and I'm well ahead in tech I'll capture it immediately. It's not worth letting other major races bribe tech out of it! If yuo strengthened them then it would be like the old senate vote of share all technology. People were very unhappy with that!

An alternative approach would be to give minors more of a background plot and base it on that. If a minor forms from a splinter group then the tech should match the race it splintered from (with a possible state of war existing). Perhaps some ships would also splinter. If a minor evolves then it's tech should be from scratch.

The best way to protect minors is through improved diplomacy, such as protection treaties (cannot attack minor without attacking protector), and improved consequences (immediate moral and relationship consequences to actions).

How many times has a major attacked your primary trading minor, refuses bribary to make peace and your only reaction can be to declare war or conquer the minor yourself? Happens to me all the time!

Paul

~SDC~

I think they should get a couple of good warships, decent sized popultation (say 15 billion), and the planetary improvements necessary to sustain that population. Its crazy to see a minor come along with like .5 to 1 bil population while everyone else is 30+. Low pop plus no military means they get culturally assimilated or capped in no time. Giving them some military is one thing but they also need a decent pop to survive. So to review

1) Give them a couple of the most advanced warship available plus a battleaxe.

2) Give them a starting population thats around 80% of the current average planetary population. If the have more than one planet, put an equal amount on the other planets as well.

3) To deal with this population they will need the appropriate moral boosters and thus should start with some. How many would be based on what starting pop you give them.

thoughts?
[Message Edited]

I like the idea of beefing up the Minor races towards the end of the game. They don't need to be mega races just have a chance to survive with the possiblity of spicing things up once in a while.

How about making them resistant to cultural influence for the first 'x' amount of turns.
The 'x' value increases depending on the year they arrive, idea being they distrust or don't integrate well yet into the galatic community, giving themselves time to set up their internal affairs.

Make them start with some freighters to generate income and/or increase their wealth depending on time of arrival. Their PQ and starting population also reflects the time they arrive... later equals more.

Fleet wise, the later on in the game the more ships they get.
The starting fleet is worked out by chance. The chance for each vessel type is modified by the time of the races arrival. Idea being they are more likely get bigger ships later on, but anything could happen.

These changes probably won't increase the minors chances too much but offer them a better chance.
In an added twist this would also aid the terrorist minors to survive, giving them a better chance to strike (I rarely see them actually get to preform a terrorist act).




~SDC~

I think it would be better to give the minor the same tech level as the farthest behind in research. Starting them from scratch would kill them.

One or two decent ships would help the minors out alot.

I think also the minors should stir up the game. Ie be terrorists and randomly kill off half of a planet each turn.... Or aid pirates for example (churn out pirate vessels. Or be an espianage type race. Sell all the leading civs tech's for a price etc.

I would like to see the minors form alliances among themselves.If you attack one then you have to attack all.Or all the minors will declare war on the civ that attacks another minor.This would help spice things up.Would also make you think twice before attacking one,especially if another minor is in one of your sectors.Also they could use trade embargoes and stop trading with civ at war with any minor.This could hurt any majors economy if trading with several minors.

I wish you could form an alliance with a minor. Help keep the other Ai's off your trading buddy. I also like the idea of allied minors working like OPEC. If you attack one they all cancel their trade with you and set up a trade embargo. Let them dictate terms trade wise.

You can form alliances with minors.Keep trading and gifting with them and eventually you will get close relations.Make sure that they have alliances researched or give it to them and then offer alliance to them like the majors.I was allied with several one game.

Pontius I like the idea of terrorist helping the pirates... I was thinking along similar lines
I like the idea they "produce them", maybe they could pay half price to produce roaming pirate ships .
Sort of funding the pirates rather then building them. Also like the idea of an intelligence race, perhaps rather they could steal techs from other races?

~SDC~

m m m minors........

me 2 bob's worth:

start some at turn one, with transports & pirate ships.
make 'em function on low PQ planets (they function fine, but it's PQ for the rest of us is still 4 ie capturing that system is worthless in terms of real estate)
make 'em a reflection of the prevailing government systems? (imperial/rebels, republic/pirates, star democracy/magnates etc etc?)

they should definitely be a threat in the early stages, and that threat should increase if left to develop.

i want more minors to appear. like add an extra five ten fifteen thirty planets and make those minors.

I'd like to see more randomicity in their tech levels - anything from none to the full set regardless of what the human or AIs have - improved reasons to leave them alone to be able to trade.

Alex


~SDC~

I don't see what the point is to having "normal" minor races just pop up out of no where.

Also I think minors should be restricted from having trade goods/wonders.

I don't care what you do to a minor, if I am ahead on tech level by quite a bit and suddenly a new race appears with all my tech, I am going to come down on them like a ton of bricks. I really hate that. This last game I played, I was way ahead on tech. A minor popped very late game. Naturally, I took it out quickly. Giving it a couple avatars would merely delay by a couple turns the inevitable when I sit on 3 military resources. I just plain cannot afford to let them live as it is.

I would much rather see them come out with an average tech level, but with a decent population, a few ships to fight with, a fair amount of improvements on there world, etc. An actuall developed civ. Then I can still choose to go to war with it if I wish and get an actual battle or two, or, much more to my style, happily trade with it and sell things to it. Minors are your friend. It would provide a real choice instead of them being a "OMFG I have to kill them right now even if it means buying a combat transport with cash on the closest planet."

I'd like the minors beedef up too. Currently they help whoever extorts tehir money and whoever kills them(usually me in both cases).
They should definitely start with more population and one or two good ships in orbit.
As for techs, they could start with the lowest common denominator plus a fixed number of techs based on the minor race. For instance, the Klingonite minor race would have all techs everyone has plus 2 red techs and one blue tech, while the OtherExample minors would have 3 yellow and 3 green techs in addition to what everuone knows.
This way, the races would have more personality and could be used to trade techs. Currently, their tech knowledge just forces you to sell them trade goods or lousy ships instead of techs in order to take all their money.