Ray the Wanderer Ray the Wanderer

The Fellowship Halls (Fellowship of the Ring Empire Thread)

The Fellowship Halls (Fellowship of the Ring Empire Thread)

Welcome to the Fellowship of the Ring Empire Thread - The Sequel. :)

The old FotR thread was getting too big and it was taking too long to load the thread, thus this new one.

Since this is the first post, I will reproduce some of the more important links for our Empire.

The FotR Website : http://www.angelfire.com/rings/fellowshipgalciv

The FotR Metaverse Empire Page : http://www.galciv.com/metaverse/empires.asp?id=329 (use this page to join)

The Metaverse Review (Theoden) : http://metaversereview.joeuser.com/

The Galciv Blog (Ray) : http://ray.joeuser.com/

A big welcome to all from Ray the Wanderer.
Enjoy your stay here at the Fellowship Halls. :)

~SDC~
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Reply #126 Top
Great job on the article Theoden! You have entirely too much time on your hands ;).

Havent got to play any since this weekned and its doubtful I will get to put any time in until this next weekend :(. Ive got an agreement with my wife not to play much during the week cause she gets annoyed when I stay up late thumbing through tech trees and the like :). Oh well, such is life.

Anywho,
Friend Gerakken, yes the Yor are generally a nuisance in most games, but they are the only Incredible AI in Wiley's, which means they will beat up on the other AIs. That could make them very powerful if he doesn't keep an eye on them.
End of quote


Thats basically what I was going for. The Yor have never been more than filler in my other games and Ive never seen one of their ships past battleship as a result. So I basically wanted to ensure that they would be one of if not the most powerful AI in late game. I had the others set to genuis (which doesnt seem to be much diff than Intelligent by the way) and so that meant setting the Yor to the vaunted "incredible". Make no mistake about it, I plan on monitoring their progress closely. I want them succed at least at first but I also want to make sure they are still managable by the time I start fielding my navy. I dont like an easy game, but I hate losing even more >:( . I havent lost one yet and I plan to keep it that way. I figure that as long as they are at war with 2 or 3 others, things should be good.

I never put too much faith in population growth bonuses... In my last game I experimented with population levels. I found that in the later stages, I could take 75% of the population off the planet and all it would do is reduce the planet's income by about 10%. Is it different in the early stages before economic% bonuses trigger the income cap?
End of quote


I understand your reservations Downie. One thing to remember though is that it doesnt just affect you income but your research, prodution, and influence as well. Defense too for that matter since its hard to conquer a planet with a huge pop. Another thing to consider is the other factors involved in calculating these numbers. Namely the quality of the planet in question. I believe that all of these stats get a boost based on a PQ modifier. This translates into the following statement: "removing population from a high PQ planet will have a much greater affect on res, prod, tax, and infl. than removing the population from a low PQ planet." While Ive never taken the time to run the tests and see how big a difference it is, It certainly seems to work this way in practice. For instance, Ive never lost the battle for 99% of the trade goods since using this pick. If I remember and get time, I'll try to run some tests as you described to see If I can tell just how much affect it has. Especially on planets of different PQ. However Ive learned to take every figure Ive seen in this game with a grain of salt. By that i mean its hard to know when you seeing the affect of a change since numbers get updated strangely. Im not confident that #'s related to planet income and spending are even displayed correctly even when they are updated. But I will try and see.

right now im seeing a formula along the lines of

prod = X * population * PQ.

Where X is a "Unit of production/(PQ)(POP)". Some base number set by stardock.

Then it factors in the planetary improvements and finally uses the "Cap rules" to get a final number. These cap rules will probably make end game calculations of these figure rather pointless in that you should be getting like 500 prod units but the rules give you 200. Thus, removing a bunch of pop means you get less stringent cap rules and so you only go down to like 180. As a result early and mid game is where you would see the biggest difference. In practice, that is indeed where I notice the biggest difference. This is very important though as having an early game edge leads to a bigger and bigger edge as the game progresses cause you grab more planets, tech faster, and build more wonders.

Clear as mud?
Reply #127 Top
Downie, great addition to the story! :D

Wiley, you've presented an interesting argument. I don't know that many have really maxed out Pop Growth and tested it's effects. I have to ask the question, though....how are your AI relations? Are you finding it difficult to maintain neutral or better relations without the mega-boost to diplo? I know you choose Populists, which gives you +20%. Have you found the ability to rush Diplo Translators and the other TG/Wonders a good alternative to Diplo picks?

The more you talk about this, the more tempted I am at trying my hand with this setup! :)

Man, my grammar and sentence structure is horrible!
[Message Edited]
Reply #128 Top
Good question Theoden! I guess I should preface all my comments by saying that I have yet to try a game with all AI's set to incredible. I have tried these picks on about 5-6 games ranging from tiny to medium map size. My current gigantic game should be another good test of these settings.

Ok, now to your question. To be honest I have never put just a whole lot of effort into maintaining relations with the other AI's. I havent even used the IP bug (notice I said bug). Nor do I usually trade with a major. Why? It just seems as if I havent needed to. In the last 6 games or so (since Ive been using these settings), Ive always had races be hostile towards me but Ive either waxed them with an early game rush, bribed someone to go to war with them, or just ignored them. I havent actually had anyone start a war with me in a long time. The only reason I can think of as to why I havent been attacked is because of my dominant society. In all of these games, Ive been able to develop a very dominant social structure and economy. I get all but maybe the very first trade good and all of the wonders. I always have about 15-20% more planets and a tech advantage over everyone except in military (i dont go after them till later). Usually by the time Ive built 6 or so goods and wonders, my econ, prod, and research graphs really start to pull away from the AI's. Once Ive gone through the first round of good/wonders I then start building battle axes at most of my planets. This gives me some decent initial defense but it also raises my military rating considerably. This keeps me from being the little fish in the pond. Its also about this time that the AI's really start looking for a fight. I figure they look at my graphs and so, "dont want none of that" and then attack the bottom feeder. I also help this process along by trying to bribe the AI with the biggest military to attack several others.

Make sense? As I said before, I havent tried it at maso yet and so it will probably be more of a problem there. However, If figure I will be able to give some money and tech every once in a while to hold the off until I go all out military. When I get to that point, its been all downhill in the games that Ive played. I dont culture bomb by the way, its just not my style. Im a bruiser, I like to purge the universe of all of their ships before I invade. AI usually has a 10 to 1 advantage in numbers but Ive got all the ship improvements including Omega Shipyard and Quality control and usually have purchased/commandeered several military starbases. They also are horrible at using their ships.

Well thats about the best I can figure any way. Need to play some more to iron it out better. Your thoughts?
Reply #129 Top
Just wanted to add that Mathew Downie is right that Pop Growth means less in late game. This is entirely due to the cap rules implaced on prod, res, and tax. The biggest difference is early and mid game. And it is a big diff IMHO
Reply #130 Top
Hmm, I'm tempted to try this out too. Early game is when you need a boost the most.
Reply #131 Top
Hmmm...I only got a little less than 10k points on that last Small/Maso. :notsure:

I guess I went a little too fast. I just can't help trading the AIs for transports and then invading them... ;)

Man, I need a Sinister Grin smiley! :HOT:
Reply #132 Top
The Metaverse Review has been updated!

http://metaversereview.joeuser.com

Headlines Include:

~ ANZAC Republic to Third
~ Jedi Continue to Grow
~ Metaverse Still Awaits ver 1.11

And More!
Reply #134 Top
Thanks, vinicible!

Ray, drop in and let us know how you're doing. I know you're in sort of semi-retirement, but come on in and say hey.

Well, it's the end of another wonderful workday. I'll catch you all tomorrow, same Bat time, same Bat channel!
Reply #135 Top
Just finished another gigantic maso - takes me about a week with other things going on. This time I played with default AI morality and followed the advice of Cotal to get an alliance with all 5 major AI. It made the game much easier (no risk of war except with minors) and I ended up with a 58k (even by finishing the tech tree and boosting the military at the end - but I missed out on a lot of tg/wonders early on). I may never hit the cap but the metaverse points one can get playing gigantic maso can get habit-forming. I am not sure what size to play next but will leave that for another day. Just wanted to check in and say "hi". Onward to 3 million for the FotR. :)
Reply #136 Top
Nice Rick!

A proposal for you, to add some spice to the Metaverse since the Fellowship's got a big lead. I propose we (you and I) try to keep our combined scores above that of Cotal. What do you think?
Reply #137 Top
Just noticed the 50th place player in the metaverse has over 99k. Looks like 100k has become the bar for the top 50. Wow, how things have changed. :D
Reply #138 Top
Nice Rick!A proposal for you, to add some spice to the Metaverse since the Fellowship's got a big lead. I propose we (you and I) try to keep our combined scores above that of Cotal. What do you think?
End of quote


What if Cotal finds out? She might start playing 6 or 7 gigantic masos each day. LOL.
Reply #139 Top
LOL Honestly I really don't expect that it would be competitive for that long. She's showing no signs of slowing down.
Reply #140 Top
Theoden,

I'm still reading most of the posts as much as I can. Today's the last day of my "reservist" military training and tomorrow's a public holiday here in Singapore, so I'm having a long weekend. :)

vincible,

How's the GOTM coming along? I think what would keep me interested in Galciv would be playing scenarios rather than the base game. I really hope a scenario editor would be coming along.

~SDC~
Reply #141 Top
I'm waiting on 1.11 to come out, since there's the possibility that save games will be incompatible with 1.10.
Reply #143 Top
Didn't notice that redshift8 submitted a game last week after a long 4-month break.

redshift8 used to be a Top5 overlord in his heydey.
~SDC~
[Message Edited]
Reply #144 Top
Best of luck to you with the GOTM, vincible. I feel quite ashamed for not being able to keep it up... but law school comes first, and every minute counts. The GOTM probably took about 10 hours a month to do, although most of that came from my crummy HTML skills.

I'm happy to see that the empire still thrives. If I ever get my Galciv back from Pennsylvania I'd like to give it another go, perhaps with a new user name.

Nice to see Cotal and Ray are jockeying for first. Couldn't have happened to two nicer people.
Reply #145 Top
Hi Michael!

Not to worry, the Fellowship will continue the fine GOTM tradition that you have established.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm not jockeying for first any longer as I'm already semi-retired from the Metaverse. Will still play a few Galciv games for fun though.

~SDC~
Reply #146 Top
Well, Ray, I still think it's a shame that the GOTM couldn't be kept up. I didn't even get to release the results from the last one I ran, which is just... unexcusable.

Anyway, I can't take credit for starting the GOTM. That was... (let me think back a few months) Dikdirk and Ellestar.

How was the big patch?
Reply #147 Top
GCX was pretty okay. It wasn't an earth-shattering patch with new races or such but for a free expansion pack it's very decent.

I think if Stardock goes ahead with the non-free Xpack, we will really see some good stuff like a scenario editor.

~SDC~
Reply #148 Top
Good morning all! It's good to hear from you again, Michael! Hope law school is going well for you!

Ray, glad to hear the reservist thing is over! I'm sure that you're glad too! :D

I started a Gig/Maso last night. Still much too early to tell how I'm doing. I still haven't met the Drengin, but I've been busy keeping everybody at war with each other.
Reply #149 Top
I've just started a Maso/Large/Uncommon game to try out the pop growth pick.

Pretty good so far. :)

~SDC~
Reply #150 Top
Anybody who reads this--JOIN MWC NOW!!! All the steak you can eat and whiskey you can drink to any new recruits who help put ANZAC back into #4!! :D :D