The minors are one the move again!!!!

Restricted? In a recent game, I'm sure I noticed a minor expand into an adjacent sector...

So far in 1.19/1.2, I find that the 'minor' races are anything but. They seem to research, colonize and build a lot faster than any of the majors (I haven't graduated to maso yet, but this holds true with all AI's at Bright-Intelligent).

Plus, they're absolutely ruthless about rush-building trade goods and wonders. In my last couple of games, the Alexians or the Carinoids grabbed pretty much every early wonder and trade good, long before anybody else even had a shot at them.

Personally, I don't mind them expanding so much, but I do think they should be discouraged... or even prevented... from building wonders and trade goods. After all, they are supposed to be MINOR races, so they shouldn't have the same capabilities as major races, and those sorts of items require some pretty sophisticated infrastructure.

Why shouldn't the minors be able to build trade goods and wonders? Great works of science and culture were often achieved by small but wealthy Italian city states. I do think that minors should be limited in expansion based on the size of the current galaxy but I don't think that
they shouldn't be able to build wonders and trade goods. If the majors are too busy killing eachother to build them then tough.

Actually, I kind of like it when they do. They are easier to obtain from a "minor" than an "adult" - like stealing candy from a baby LOL

~SDC~

I had a feeling that preventing them completely would strike many people as too severe, but I figured I'd toss it out there anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing them 'nerfed' in some other way myself.

Mostly, it strikes me as counter-intuitive that minor races are actually stronger than 'major' races in this respect.

Also, in the time period you're referring to, those Italian city-states may have been physically small, but they were hardly 'minor' in terms of wealth and power. If you look at the 'seven wonders of the ancient world', they were all built by powerful civilizations, not by obscure tribes in the hinterlands.



It's not really a question of the majors being too busy. With the early wonders and TG's, the minors just seem to have a knack for getting to them first (and a lot more cash to throw around, I believe).

I also remember hearing a while back that this was a result of the minor races operating at high intelligence settings regardless of what the majors were set to. Perhaps the situation would be improved by scaling back the intelligence rating of the minors to somewhat below the AI average for a given game (thus reinforcing their 'minor-ness').

[Edit: @Weyrleader - Have you ever actually TRIED stealing candy from a baby? It's not as easy as you might think... ]
[Message Edited]

Actually, I have. When my girls were small. Now, maybe they gave it to me because I was their father, but they eventually got even by crying for help - and their mother came running. Now, I would reather deal with the baby than the angry mother
~SDC~

BTW, I had the same experience with a minor. I didn't check to see if a major was allied to it, and the major came running and wopped me across the galaxcy
[Message Edited]

Heheheh... that's one of the things that makes it so dangerous...



ROTFLMAO... oh, what an image.

That's what happens when you get between a Drengin female and her cubs...

It seems your wish has already been realized :
"1.49C beta :
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+ Minors are no longer allowed to build wonders or trade goods "
~SDC~
[Message Edited]

Why those sneaky SOB's... they did that just to get me to buy AP didn't they?

Hmmm, carinoids just rush build ultra spices . Just to make me look bad. But no wonders so far.
Nevertheless I have played some games under 1.49 and had the feeling they were less "present".
Note that my current game is my first maso, so maybe they have some more liberties at that level...
I'll report this in the bug thread too, just in case :notsure:

Maybe the Minors should have their Intelligence level set to the AVERAGE of all the Majors?

Personally, I'd like a switch to turn off "Minors" in the galaxy set up screen. Then it would be my choice if I have to compete with the Minors for the early goods/wonders (but accepting that new minors in game are just new good worlds), or not having to worry too much about the early Trade/Wonders (but no new good free worlds).

I think a switch to completeley disable minors was also planned for the next AP-Beta.

I am actually happy with that, Alex or Cari always builds the Diplo Trans before anyone else in my games, usually around turn FIVE

I know how you feel. I tried in one game to get to it first... with 100% research straight to it, planning to lease it immediately. On the turn that I got the tech, one of the minors finished the trade good... and I think that was on 'Normal'.

I liked the minors as they were before the last patch limited in size to one sector but not prevented from developing wonders and trade goods. The only thing that needed to be changed was the fact they caried on building colony ships long after their sector was colonised. Perhaps on very large galaxies minors should be able to expand into the adjacent sectors but only so far. Perhaps that's how it works now since I haven't played a normal-sized game with the patch yet.

I always get diplo translators (including in my current game, a medium maso).
I've read somewhere here that if you save-load, then, most AIs, including minors, will rush build the wonders/trade goods they can. Avoiding doing that has helped, somehow.

The minors have been beating me to DT a lot recently. It's not much of a problem. I just trade to get it off them. I don't think the majors buy trade goods off minors very often.

~SDC~

I go into huge debts to get it. I think it helps me survive afterwards.

In my last gigantic maso using Galciv version 1.2, the Carinoids built the diplo translator, tri-steel and frictionless clothing while the Scotts built grav. accelerator and aphrodisiac, all before my best planet built a manufacturing capital. Of course, all those trade goods were cash rushed by the AI and bought by me with just a few early techs. This makes the early game much simpler since nowadays I just go straight for the Galactic stock exchange followed by the Eye of the Universe. This also makes the early game much more boring since regardless of what I do, I will get no more than 2, maybe 3 wonders/trade goods. But then again, in version 1.13 I would always get all wonders/trade goods but 2 or 3. Finding a balance somewhere in-between would do much to make the game more interesting.

~SDC~

If you are talking about the diplo. translator, it would cost you a lot less to buy it from a minor, or even from a major, than to go into deep debt before your economy is up and running.

~SDC~

Yes, but then I could not prevent others from getting it too. Except by taking out the minor just after buying it, but then losing a trade partner.

I never try for the early trade goods or wonders. I know I can buy them later. I just develop my colonies and build up my economy.

erm... why exactly should minors stay glued to their place? Would ANY civilization ever decide to not expand when it can?

Hmmm, I don't think I have ever seen a major buy a trade good from a minor, maybe they should.

If the major captures the minor's planet then they won't get the benefit of the trade good while you will keep your license to use it, maybe they should.

~SDC~

I agree. Though sometimes an Ai does demand that I hand over the trade good. Anyway, I try not to exploit (too much) Ai limitations like this one, so I act as if they would buy it, thus cancelling my advantage (and considering the beating I just took, it seems I still need all the extras I can get...)