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Metaverse Scoring Audit

Metaverse Scoring Audit

As some people may have noticed, Stardock conducted a Metaverse scoring audit. The intention is to try to ensure the general integrity of the Metaverse. 

According to the Metaverse auditors, there were a number of top ranked players who had figured out a way to submit multiple entries for what was essentially the same game. We don't know precisely how they did this (hex editor, decompiler, etc.) but the only things that would appear different in the game were the gameID and sometimes the first researched tech.  Otherwise, it was still the same map, the same enemies, the same everything.

As a result, some people were able to quickly rise to the top of the Metaverse by submitting dozens of 60,000 (max score) games per week.  I have instructed our moderators to find anyone who has done this sort of thing in any significant way and zero out all of their games. Most of the top players were looked at closely.

Some players who have high scores have them because they took advatnage of a legitimate (though in hindsight bad idea on our part) feature of enabling people to resubmit games they played and replace existing scores with them.  So some players who had built, over time, many good games could resubmit as they figured out how to win.  We consider these games to be legitimate and won't be penalizing them (though in any GalCiv 2 this will be changed so that once a game's submitted to the metaverse, it's saved forever).

We also reserve the right to remove scores based on "Cheesing".  However, we have not done so thus far and before we would (if we ever do) we would first post explicitly the tactic being used that is considered off limits before acting. So any sort of cheese tactic wouldn't be arbitrarily chosen and would have to be publicly defensible on the forum (i.e. we would have to make a compelling case as to whether a given tactic was cheese).

If someone feels they were unfairly harmed, they can contact [email protected] who is in charge of the moderators on the Metaverse. No games were deleted, they were simply hidden and taken out of the counting.  But beware, don't waste our time with false claims of innocence. Looking at the scores at the top that remain there, I can assure you that the games were looked at thoroughly at at considerable expense (in engineering hours) on our part.

We consider the integrity of the Metaverse to be somewhat important as it has to be fair to the entire community. Not just to the dozen or so people who are focused on having very high rankings. It's not fair to the people who play the game fairly and submit their scores to be zapped into obscurity simply because a handful of people have found some exploit or cheat or whatever you want to call it to push up ridiculously high scores.


[Message Edited]
7,654 views 155 replies
Reply #52 Top
However, we have not done so thus far and before we would (if we ever do) we would first post explicitly the tactic being used that is considered off limits before acting.
End of quote


huh? Not wanting to start a flame war but I am always bothered by selective ommissions, this reminds me of a Midnight Oil song, album is 10,9, 8.. and it is track 3.

Some game scores were rejected/effectively zeroed last year due to stardock's definition of cheese. Ask some of the old timers about it!
[Message Edited]
Reply #55 Top
Well the lack of response from Stardock proves my case, they don't have evidence of cheating and they are just punishing "cheesie tactics". So be aware you could be next.
Reply #56 Top
Well the lack of response from Stardock proves my case, they don't have evidence of cheating and they are just punishing "cheesie tactics". So be aware you could be next.
End of quote


Renegade, when you say lack of response, are you refering to public forum response, or to your private email to them? I urge you to reponse to the moinitor mentioned in previous posts from Stardock and others. If they don't respond to you in private, then I think we as a community can try to do something.

Keep fighting, I know it is tiresome.
Reply #57 Top

Some game scores were rejected/effectively zeroed last year due to stardock's definition of cheese. Ask some of the old timers about it!
End of quote

If you're referring to the GCCG or whatever EBZeroMatrix' strategy was, that issue was because he was using a strategy that was causing anomalous scores.  We weren't personally deleting or zeroing out the scores caused by this strategy.

Well the lack of response from Stardock proves my case, they don't have evidence of cheating and they are just punishing "cheesie tactics". So be aware you could be next.
End of quote

Frogboy is on vacation this week and this was the first chance that I've had to catch up on the forums after being gone for a long weekend myself.  If you've e-mailed him, it may take him awhile to respond.

If we wanted to just punish people for using cheese tactics, I could put in a bunch more checks that would trip the anomalous flag and your scores would reach the database as zeros.  This would take far less effort on our part than going in the database and manually deleting or zeroing out scores.

As it is, I will be suggesting to Brad that we put in code to warn people who have hex edited their files. I can also change the way that we generate the Game IDs so that we can check to make sure that they were generated by Gal Civ and not by a hex editor.

 

 

Reply #59 Top
This is my cheesie tactic, to prove you once and for all that you are wrong, I created a mod with a strong political party, that gave me a lot of cash and other advantages, before I finished to ally with the last AI and 1 turn before the elections I changed in all the games (60K) my political party to an another party and then 1 turn later I allied with the last AI and obtained a 60K victory, I never went inside the files to do any hexing or whatever you call that, I just changed the political party, cheesie? yes, cheating no, I didn't alter any data or broke any code or hack any hex thing. So here you have my cheesie tactic. Now you want to ban me for doing that, be my guest. Your lack of respect and your lack of desire to find the truth is not worthy the effort to argue with you. >:(
Reply #60 Top
political party, that gave me a lot of cash and other advantages, before I finished to ally with the last AI and 1 turn before the elections I changed in all the games (60K) my political party to an another party and then 1 turn later I allied with the last AI and obtained a 60K victory
End of quote


Sorry for my lack of understanding Renegade but how can you change politcal party in the middle of a game, I thought you could only do this before the game started. :notsure:
Reply #61 Top

Do you mean that you're changing the government? Because the only way to change your political party after you've started the game would be to edit either the save game or the data files, and I would consider that cheating. 

Reply #62 Top
Sorry for my lack of understanding Renegade but how can you change politcal party in the middle of a game, I thought you could only do this before the game started.
End of quote


Good question. I thought the same. This revelation is interesting.... :notsure:
Reply #63 Top
Let me give you the details, I started with a political party and like I said before before I allied with the last AI and before the last turn to the election I saved the game and when I restart the game I will use the same political party without the mod, editing the poltical party using galciv writer removing the mod. Well if you consider that cheating, then is cheating. I don't consider it cheating but is a matter of opinion, you accused me of hacking and using the same ID for each of my games and that is not true.
Reply #64 Top
I saved the game and when I restart the game I will use the same political party without the mod, editing the poltical party using galciv writer removing the mod. Well if you consider that cheating, then is cheating. I don't consider it cheating but is a matter of opinion
End of quote


Sorry, Renegade, what you are describing amounts to editing the save game file. To me that is more than "cheese". :notsure:
Reply #65 Top
This is to prevent it from being anomalous score?

That is very different then what Renegade has been accused of. Cheesie and maybe should be stopped, but I would not think It should result in expulsion. He did play the games.
Reply #66 Top
That is very different then what Renegade has been accused of. Cheesie and maybe should be stopped, but I would not think It should result in expulsion. He did play the games.
End of quote


Editing a save game file the way he describes changes the parameters the game was started with. IMHO the editing of a save game or altering the parameters to force a good score to go through is more than just "cheese". :notsure:
Reply #67 Top
So you actually edit the save game file or the mod file in the game itself. :notsure:
Reply #68 Top
So you actually edit the save game file or the mod file in the game itself.
End of quote


He describes it as:

editing the poltical party using galciv writer
End of quote


which tells me he has to edit the game file using the editor to change the effects of the mod. Hey, my games are played, albeit sloppily and poorly but, without the use of an editor. This, to me, makes this more than "cheese".
Reply #69 Top
Am I right, you would do this because the politcal party left unchanged would result in anomalous score.
Reply #70 Top
I saved the game and when I restart the game I will use the same political party without the mod, editing the poltical party using galciv writer removing the mod
End of quote


So start the game with one set of rules that would cause an anomaly(?), use Galciv writer to change those rules and complete the game? Sounds like cheating to me. Sorry.
Reply #71 Top
editing the poltical party using galciv writer


which tells me he has to edit the game file using the editor to change the effects of the mod. Hey, my games are played, albeit sloppily and poorly but, without the use of an editor. This, to me, makes this more than "cheese".
End of quote

I once did such a change (in the mod file) (while working on a new mod party) but it did not have effect to the game currently played
Reply #72 Top
I was hoping that you didn't cheat. But is now quite obvious by your own words that you cheated, by game file editting in-game, to avoid the anomolous score trigger. I'm even more sorry that you can't see this fact for yourself. :(
Reply #73 Top
Hey guys and gals. Here is how I understood what Renegade said. Play the game with the mod pol party that gives all the cheese that the AI gets (and maybe more) in a Masso game. Ally with all but one of the AIs. To restart the game, I think he means save the game. Exit GalCiv. Either edit or rename the pol party to the normal pol part of the same name (why edit it all the time, when all you have to do is rename it) Restart (reload) GalCiv. GalCiv than brings in the pol parties from the folders, doesn't find the moded pol party, but the regular pol party and starts up the game where left off from the save(but with the now unmodded pol party.) No modifing of the saved game file. No moding of the GalCiv program file. Finally ally with the remaining AI and get 60K. I surmise that if he finished the game with the modded pol party, he did not get valid scores. I consider this valid cheese (or invalid cheese if you want), but not cheating in the way that Stardock indicated. He did not hack any of the files. Just made use of the way the GalCiv works. If one understands the enemy, it is easy to defeat them. Why do you think the U.S. and other military powers us intelligence gathering - so they know the weakness of the enemy. This is a weakness of GalCiv, not a cheat.
[Message Edited]
Reply #74 Top
He did not hack any of the files. Just made use of the way the GalCiv works.
End of quote


Sorry to disagree here but I sincerely doubt the intent is to use an editor to change parameters set at the beginning of the game. The political party is chosen at the start and cannot be changed in game. The only way to change it is to hack the save by using GalCiv editor. Any way I look at this it is cheat not cheese. Cheese is using a weakness in the AI to your advantage, some loophole the writer did not block, it is not using an editor to alter the file of a mostly completed game.

To further bolster this, check past posts from months ago in which a certain player whined about the "masoverse" and stated in these forums that he could not play at that level and then--suddenly--he does.... :notsure:
Reply #75 Top
I did exactly what you said Weyrleader, and I only did it for the Masso games, if Stardock considered that improper, then I will accept those games to be removed and zeroed, but then why the other games I played that were not Massso, over 200 of them, where also zeroed? If what I was doing was wrong, then fine, removed those games and alert me that what I am doing is improper like happended in the past with Zeromatrix, but deleting all my games, before taking the time to contact me and letting me know that I was doing something wrong, and that I shouldn't do it anymore, that I believe should have been the next step, then and only then if I submitted another game using the tactic I was using and knowing before hand that what I was doing is wrong, then I would agree with Stardock that all my games need to be deleted. But nobody contacted me, nobody said that what I was doing was wrong, the system didn't catch it, so, instead of blatanly accusing someone of cheating they should have alerted me that using this tactic or strategy was wrong and the scores would not be accepted, did they do that? NO, they lashed out, deleted all my games, deleted all my scores and didn't have the decency to contact me, to let me know that I was using a mod that was improper and unacceptable. Sorry if what I was doing was done with good intention and no one caught it and contacted me to let me know that was wrong, I am been honest and telling you what I am doing, Stardock didn't have a clue that this what I was doing, they were accusing me of hacking and changing the ID of the same game to submit the SAME GAME multiple times, sorry but that accusation doesnot have anything to do with the use of the mods. >:(