Late July GotM discussion thread

Note that the game isn't online yet, but it will be within the next two or three days.

awesome, can't wait.

Ok, first report in. Again, my notes on strategies, although not quite as detailed or blow by blow. My CTDs and reloading changed the course of history and the alliance bit was really tricky. Although I can't be sure, I think the only reason I got the last alliance with the Torians was because I saved in frustration and loaded again.

The AAR is coming up.

Victory: Alliance Victory
Number of Original Civilizations: 7 (including Terrans)
Date of Victory: Jan. 2100


Late July Game of the Month

This mission looks like a diplomatic mission, and give me jitters. Not that I am unskilled in diplomacy, but I usually do not play this way. My strategy involves bursts of rushing.

My plan in this game still involves fighting, but it is more of teaching the aliens a lesson than exterminating them. I hope I can weaken them enough that they will accept human leadership of an alliance into the future. My goal is quite ambitious, trying to unite all six empires under a common flag. Trading and early alliances will be essential. Attempting to ally with all five races, however, reduces the benefits of trade centers. The additional trade route will be essential to my success.

January 2187
The start looks promising. A PQ 19 planet in the lower center. Strategically, this is an excellent starting position. I set my economy such that Earth begins popping out one colony ship every three turns.
The numbers finally come out to 17 bc on military spending and 1 bc on research. It looks like I'm not going to be doing too much research.

The grab progresses. To the north, I can see Dregin influence. To the east and south east, Torian or Arcean influence. To the west Altarian influence. My grabs are success and with good scouting I know my limitations. After colonization phase, I have eleven planets: two to the north, one to the northwest, one to the southwest, two to the east and four further east.

By 2180, I have met every single race. The strongest, by far, are the Torians, controlling seven systems. They also had the gall to demand tribute from me. The next strongest are the Dregins and the Altarians. Dregins have control of six systems. Altarians have control of four strong systems.
The Arceans also have four systems but are stuck in the corner. Yors are extremely weak with three planets on two systems in the northeast. It was quite amusing that Michael called the Yors a minor race. In this game they will be playing the role of a minor race.

January 2181
Four years have passed since the beginning of hyperspace. The Human empire is enjoying a fast inflow of money from the minor race. With spending set to 100%, I set all three spendings equally. I have caught up from the initial teching phase, researching deflectors got me every single tech I wanted from every other race. I set my sights on cultural trade and try to conserve every bit of money for my military and economy. I get lucky on a research hurricane, and it helps cut short my cultural trade research by 5 turns. At this point, I beging to wonder about the wonders and trade goods. I decide to forgo most of the influence trade goods. The frictionless clothing is useful, but I think I could just trade for it. Grav Accelerators are extremely useful, but again not necessary that I build them. I start them anyways because I should be able to net quite a few.

I decide to take a break and save my game for another day.

Second day, I get a CTD several turns after load up. Looks like a couple background programs were interfering. I play a couple turns over, and tried to duplicate what I already did.

January 2185
Wars begin erupting around my central position. My relations with the Torian empire continues to deteriorate, but my relations with the Yors, Dregins, and Altarians are warm or better. In light of all the military build up, I hurry build a couple of the trade goods and switch over to military production.

It becomes more and more apparent that I need to teach the Dregins and the Torians a lesson that they won't forget. They will accept human leadership and they will like it! The other concern is that the Altarians are culturally dominating the Alexians, I'll have to consider throwing some constructors their way.


January 2187
I kept getting CTDs this year and I cannot figure out what is causing it. Anyways I had to play through the same sx months four times. The funny thing was that the Yors surrendered the second time through and no other time. On the third try, I placed autosave to every turn and hoped that I would not lose any more of my game. I still got a CTD in May, but I didn't lose very much. Each trial I tried to match exactly what I did the previous time, but some small things must have changed.

This is the year of my large offensive against the Torians who are waving their bat a little to haughtily. My rapid attack takes four of their systems and I plan to settle into permanent peace with them. At the end of the year. I also manage to ally with the Yors and hope that they will not consider surrendering again (no active trade routes necessary!)

January 2189
This year I am planning to destroy the power of the Dregins. I send quite a large build up to the Cardinoids just in case the Cardinoids come under attack from Transporters. While the Dregins are busy attacking the Cardinoids, my attack destroys most of their fleet. They will be on the defensive for awhile. I'll have to reign in my allies so they don't attack the weakened empire.

January 2192
This year I am either going to ally with the Altarians immediately by trade. However, if I get dragged into another war with them, I will destroy their power by taking two of their four planets. In the end I watch the diplomatic screen carefully and prevent war, but the Altarians are really slow in improving relations. I finally get them into the alliance about three years later.

January 2195
The focus shifts north to the Torians who I have a warm relations with. I figure this one is going to be really easy, but boy was it frustrating. I got the CTD several more times and sometimes had completely different events during the one or two turns that I lost. I wonder what would have happened if I had played it through.

Anyways, I want to ally with the Dregins, but my allies keep declaring war on them and dragging me in with them. After four or five times, I decide the Dregins are expendable because they wouldn't like me very much anyways. I have to watch the Yors very carefully because they are alway at war with the Torians. I still did not prevent one war with the Torians and it was really killer. I had relations up to Friendly already, but the war reset my progress.I made peace and after three years of developing trade centers and trade routes. My relations with the Torians are still Friendly. The Dregins have already surrendered to the Yors. I had to protect the Cardinoids by giving tech to anyone who attacked them. One of the Alexian planets also flipped and I had to rush over there with constructors.

January 2199
I check my status with the Torians and I have 49% of their income and still can't manage relations above Friendly. It has been about 35% for about two years now. Finally around October, I give up in disgust, and save my game hoping for some breakthrough when I come back to it. I do not know if it was the extra two turns until January 2200 or just the act of saving and loading, I found myself with a close relationship only two turns later although no big changes had occurred.


This GotM was a rather frustrating experience. With all the CTDs, the random events that kept changing, the slow progression of relations at the end with the Altarians and Torians. From the last two months, I get the feeling that the fastest way to set your relations with some race is by saving and loading. This makes sense because relations should be a recursive function too. I finished with seven races on the board, but it could have been only six since the Yors surrendered in one of my CTDs. If you deem the CTDs unusual and unfair circumstances, feel free to disqualify this submission.

Eh date of victory should be Jan. 2200.

Between the years of 2192 and 2200, my entire effort was trying to keep every race in the game alive. I kept giving away middle level techs that are valued highly in exchange for make peace with... I must have done it 20-40 times. Sometimes I bestowed my entire research lead upon the minors and the Yors. I wish I had that galactic peace UP election since I would have jumped on it right away. Taxing warring empires would have been nice too! I was also correct about giving up on the Dregins. By the fifth or sixth declaration of war, they were willing to fight me to the death and surrendered to the Yors to spite me. I never did ever fire a shot against them during the five or six wars.

During the last 5 years I didn't have many CTDs, it might have helped with my friendly to close relation problem if I did have one.

WTG Gengsta. Well you already beat me. I can't do such a detailed AAR, anyway I've discussed most of my strategies on another thread. Basically my game went like this:

Early Colonization phase: Did well with 2 research resources near the Sol sector, and managed to get 11 planets (I think). More than anyone else at any case. The early part of the game was very very smooth, I got all the early TGs built, and had a very nice economy thanks to trade and selling techs. I thought I would have no problem keeping all 5 races alive, plus the two minors.

Middle phase; I got to Dreadnaught first and, since I also had a military resource, I was doing quite well militarily. But who to attack? I was hoping for a Torian/Alterian/Arcean alliance, so those three were out. The Torians were being quite upidy but were still not close to Dreadnaught tech. I got ready to launch an attack for the Drengins, figuring I wouldn't have a shot at getting them in alliance. While I prepared for war, the Drenigns quietly took over the Caratinoids. Doh, should have seen that coming. ANyway I proceded to waltz into their empire.

Within a few turns, all their resources were mine, I took 3 major systems, and had them begging on their knees. I thought, great, now they wouldn't be any trouble. A few turns later, they surrendered to me, for some strange reason. A few turns after that, the Yor surrendered (god they are pathetic).

Meanwhile, I went to work on securing alliances. The Alexians were in trouble so I gifted them a party palace in their sector. Still didn't help, the Alterians assimulated both of their planets.

Late Phase:

I had the Arceans and ALterians up to friendly relations, and the Torians in an alliance, and thought i was very close to winning. Then it happened. Some diplomatic blunder launched me into a war with the Torians, who were allied with, guess who, the Alterians and Arceans. I beat them up a bit and suggested a peace treaty (I was still militaryily dominant). From then on I gift techs to the tune of 1 per turn (approximately), and still I couldn't get either the Alterians or Torians to ally. I did get the Arceans, so that's a start. Finally I gifted some resource starbases to each and they rolled over like a dog.

Overall this scenario was...pretty boring. Very little fighting, I was neutral (i'm used to playing evil), not really my style as far as diplomacy goes. I usually win via military conquest, but thought it would take too long here.

Looking forward to the next GOTM!

Hey, Gibbie. What about minors, and date of victory???

I allied with the Arceans shortly after the Yors; Approximate date of event: 2188

I had to watch over everyone constantly, between the years 2188 and 2194, I had 5 or so sensor drones watching over the minors the Yors. They eventually got destroyed and I had to play blind. The Torians really caused a problem for me, and it was them that forced the Dregins out of the game. This was the part that was all luck. I had to guess when to give techs and declare peace.

That and the random events of 40 or so corvettes to the Dregins got. I was so happy, I thought they were going to stay in the game. Then the Torians got 50+ corvettes and promptly destroyed the Dregins.

Then the Torians kept fighting with the weak Yors, and I was on the constant look out to prevent being dragged in. One time, the Torians declared war and I got dragged in immediately. Didn't have time to check the relations chart.

Having to check the relations chart every turn for about 70+ turns was the most frustrating part of the game. Then having to give tech away for every single war. I was so pissed off when the Torians were at 35% + income due to trade with me for three years and still weren't close.
[Message Edited]

Oops. Didn't see that you already mentioned the two races being wiped out. The positioning of the two minors was probably the worst possible. Cardinoids in the middle kept getting into wars with everyone. Alexians stuck in the corner were easy prey to cultural assimilation. The Cardinoids were on the verge of destruction when I won. I was thinking of giving it a Combat Transport with full population.

It's interesting to see the different approaches people took for this game. I was never at war the entire game.

I won in Dec 2197, but I was unable to keep the Cardinoids alive. The Drengin were by far the most powerful in my game and I was unable to keep them from conquering the Cadinoids.

I won in July 2200. Only three majors survived. If I played the scenario over, i am sure i could do better (even given another random map). I don't play this type of diplomacy game well. Two minors did appear throughout the game but were quickly swallowed. Why oh why do they appear with 100 population, no money, and no ships? How can they expect to survive?

THOUGHTS BEFORE STARTING

Should get a good score this time. I lost the last GOTM because it was about conquering

and I'm not good at that. Diplomacy/alliances is what I focus at in my usual games and I

think I've become quite good at that in the meantime.
The choosen advantages are good - especialle speed and diplomacy. Social Production is

good, too, I hope I can produce most of the tradegoods. No economy bonus, thou... hm.
May second game with the beta installed, I'm not familiar with all new techs and features

yet but that shouldn't be to much of a problem.

FEB 2178
Send the first colony ship north - a research resource there, very nice. I hope I can get

that. The USS Hero went southeast and found a BattleAxe - excellent!
Started to research towards the translator.

MAR 2178
Settled on Cassius

JUL 2178
Settled on Patroclus

DEC 2178
Settled on Rathra

JAN 2179
Settled on Aquarii and Hyadea
Got an event there - illegal trading base. Took the good choice and rejected cooperation

with them.

MAR 2179
Settled on Zeus

JUN 2179
Settled on Vesta.
The Altarians reached Vizzard shortly before I could.

OCT 2179
Colonization phase went very well. Contact with Torians and Altarians. Some constructors

nearly finished - started to build them early while earth porduced colony ships as fast as

possible - to secure the resources near me. Rushing to finish soil enhancement on all my

planets now.

JAN 2182
Things are going quite well. Contacted all civilizations except the Yor and do a lot of

tech trading with everybody, so I stay up to date without spending to much on research

myself, and by selling tech to the minors, I get enough money to go on with 100% spending.

I managed to get 4 rescources so far, 2x research, 1 economic (Yes!) and 1 military. Built

just a few BattleAxes so the AIs won't bully me. Spend most of my money on social -

working on 4 or 5 tradegoods at once.

FEB 2183
Things are going still very well. Everybody likes me. Just keep building trade goods,

trading tech a lot, enhancing my planets... This is almost boring.
Well, sooner or later someone will screw it up.

MAR 2183
The Altarians declared war upon the war, but I bribed them to make peace again. I have

enough resources to do this several times if necessary. I hope to prevent as much wars as

possible so I can ally with more AIs and score better.

JAN 2184
Reached "Friendly" with all 5 major races. Prevented another war, this time between the

Drengin and the Altarians. Still nothing interessting happend.

NOV 2184
The Altarians and Drengins tried to go to war several times, no surprise, but I could

convince them to stop it every time. Reached 'close' with the Torians, but I will not ally

with them now to avoid being drawn into wars. I will wait until I am close with all races.

JUL 2186
The Drengin fight against the Torians and Altarians, but nor planets have been taken so

far and I think it won't happen to soon, the war seems quite balanced. I am not able to

stop it.
Well, anyway - I'm close to the Arceans and Drengins, friendly with the rest.

APR 2188
Close with everyone except the Yor. Some minor wars between Altarians/Drengins/Torian,

nothing serious. Making tons of money from trade and forwarding it to the Yors to get them

close, too.

DEC 2189
Still trying hard to get the Yor to close... the Alexians just got a "getting more

powerful every months event"... that's all.

MAR 2191
Grrr... Paying 800/months to the Yor and still can't get them to close. Will re-arrange

more traderoutes to them.

NOV 2192
Hm. The Carinoids just where killed. And the Altarians dropped back to "friendly". Not

going well. Maybe I wanted to much.

MAY 2193
Thinks keep getting worse. The fundamentalists turned up within the Yor empire. The Yor

are down to one planet. Fundamentalistic robots. Lovely.

JUn 2193
The Yor no surrendered themselves to me. Close with everybody but the Altarians.

NOV 2193.
Finally close with everybody. Made it. But not as good as I hoped: Allied with Torians, Altarians, Drengins and Arceans - Alexians still alive - Carinoids and Yor dead.
A pitty, I was quite close to win with all civs alive but couldn't make it.

I finally got a chance to do a write up of my game.

My initial strategy going in was to do the following:

- Avoid getting in any wars
- Keep my military rating higher than anyone else to avoid extortion demands.
- Get my alignment slightly to the good (around 55). This should help relations with the good and neutral aliens. The evil ones won't mind because I'm close to neutral.
- Trade heavily with the evil races to get them to ally with me.


This is how things actually went.

After the colonization phase I have 11 planets in 9 star systems. This seems to be what most players have ended up with. I have starbases on two tech and one military resource. My morality is 54. I research trade and build freighters on Earth to send to a Drengin system straight north. Things are going according to plan. At least for now.

Jan 2181. My military is twice any other alien race just from building defenders. Relations with the Torians and Altarians are warm. Everyone else neutral.

May 2182. I finally meet the Alexians. At this point I remember the map Michael made showing their location. Not finding them sooner doesn't appear to be a problem. I trade them all my tech on the 20 month plan. I can set spending back up to 100% and still have a surplus of 294 per turn. As the game goes on I'm able to build all the trade goods and wonders.

Feb 2186. Altarians and Torians friendly. Drengin and Yor warm. Arcean neutral. I'm doing all my trade with the Drengin.

There have been many wars going on between the alien races. I've been aiding the weaker races with ships and tech. It has worked out so far, but I see a problem with my initial strategy. The Drengin are just too powerful. Since they are evil and militaristic they will constantly be trying to conquer the weaker races. I need to find a way to weaken them without ruining my relations. I save the game for the night and think about what to do.


I've decided I have two choices. Set research to 100% and get battleships. Everyone is using frigates and battle cruisers. If I can build enough battleships to give to the other aliens they may be able to beat the Drengin down. I've already give the tri-strontium steel trade good to the weaker races.

If this fails I'll have to culture bomb the Drengin. This is risky. If I'm not careful I'll end up wiping out other races with culture.

I'm almost finished researching battleships. Unfortunately I don't get done in time to save the Carinoids.


Feb 2187: The tale of the idiot Carinoids who deserved to die because they are stupid.

The Drengin have launched a massive assault on the Carinoids. The Carinoids are fighting like morons. The Drengin build a starbase in their sector with no modules. The Carinoids decide that this is a more important target than the Drengin ships near their planet. They take all their ships out of orbit and attack the worthless starbase. The starbase is damaged but survives and the Carinoids now have no ships. I see the Drengin are bringing in transports. I send three frigates into the sector near the transports and give them to the Carinoids. The Carinoids decide that instead of attacking they will watch the invasion of their home world. They are destroyed.

In hind site I should have given the Carinoids ships sooner. Who knows they may have even attacked the Drengins, but I have my doubts. They probably would probably have gone on a site seeing trip to an empty sector with no strategic importance.


Dec 2188. Torians get to close.

Oct 2189. Arcean get to close. Yor, Drengin and Altarians are warm or friendly.

After conquering the Carinoids, the Drengin are more powerful than ever. I'll have to try and culture bomb them down to size. After researching battleships I go for cultural maximizing. They key will be doing a surgical culture attack that only affects certain sectors. I don't want to take over the other aliens and I don't want to take the Drengin planet that has all my trade routes.

I start by building culture improvements on key planets and building culture starbases in the sector north of earth. Eventually the Carinoids old planet and the planet in the sector to the east flip to me. The Alterians and Torians each have one planet that have the skull icon, but they'll be able to survive if they do flip.

The Drengin are still too strong. They now have battleships and their military power is rising rapidly. I need to flip more of their planets, but I don't want the ones in the sectors next to me because that will ruin my trade with them. It could also start a chain reaction that could take out the Torians. I see there is a class 14 planet in the sector (3-2) I want to attack. I colonize it and start building culture starbases in the sector (2-3) south west of this planet. This focuses the culture on two of the Drengin sectors and will not affect the other races. After the third starbase the planets in these two sectors flip. The Drengin are now down to 4 planets and are under control.

May 2194. Drengin close.

I move trade routes to the Altarians and then Yor to get them to close.

Jan 2197. Altarians close.

Dec 2197. Yor finally close. I ally with everyone and win. Only the Carinoids were eliminated.


This was a nerve racking game because so much that was beyond your control. You never knew for sure if someone would surrender or if you'd get a random event that would throw you into war.

After Action Report by Rabid Rob, alias Rob Johnson

I've only been playing a couple weeks, but I've already been impressed by the mere fact that I
lost my first 4 games. It's been awhile since that's happened

I decided to start by maximizing spending, and throwing all spending into military, to really
throw out my colony ships. This works splendidly, allowing me to grab the good planets to the
north, east, and west quite handily. Of course, everyone talks to me funny, since they don't use
Universal Translators . I then toned down the military spending enough to get that, but was
still focusing on military spending in order to build constructors.

As a result, the I dominated the center, but that's really all I had. The Torians are living large all over the eastern side of the galaxy, and have stopped the Yor cold -- the Tor are also #1 in the galaxy, BTW. The Drengin have the most of the north, and aren't feeling friendly. The Altarians have a good hold in their corner, and they did get one planet to the west of me, which turns out to be a Good Thing. The Arceians, with all that dead space around them, end up stuck in their corner. Fortunately, I can trade influence! The minor races trade much nicer, and actually have some techs the Majors don't have. On my way to researching Alliances, I end up trading a lot of techs with everyone, and soon make up my tech failings (except weapons...). With the extra
money this generates, I keep my spending high, and give gifts to all the Majors except the Yor,
who are obviously doomed despite how well they have done in tech.

The First Galactic Wars

The Drengin and Tor both end up sniping at the Yor, but the Yor tech lead, and probably bribes at
times, keeps them alive for awhile. So the Drengin also turn on me, and the Tor decide to go for
the Arceians. Fortunately, I've had time to set up trade routes, and my occasional gifts have the
Tor and Altarians being Friendly. The USS Hero has actually gotten some decent weaponizing upgrades, and it's up in Drengin space when war breaks out. Like some kind of silly action flic, the Hero battles through hordes of Corvettes, Transports, and Freighters to return home! In the process, it distrupts the Drengin invasion plan, so my few Starfighters can die trying to get rid of some pesky Corvettes. In tribute to the heroic (and, alas, eventually doomed) struggles of the, er, USS Hero, the Altairans come in on my side. The Tor one up them, and provide me some Corvettes, perhaps to make up for being later coming to my aid. The war picks up, and everyone else switches to Frigates! Ack! But I'm able to buy the Battle Cruiser tech from one of the Minors (Minors RULE!), which allows me to build up my military rating quickly, and even get in there and kill some nasty Drengin.

The Drengin, realizing 3 against 1 is bad, try to ask me to peace. I may be (playing) good, but if you're not gonna pay me anything when I'm about to take a world... So, I tell 'em off, and we cream the Drengin! I get a fleet in position to grab a planet, and the Drengin decide to pay me off this time.

The Drengin are so scared at this point, they give me all their tech and money! I turn around and buy peace for them with my Friends -- you'd think the Drengin would be thankful for that, so I'd get a chance to save them. Grrr. I also buy peace for the Arses, but they're a buncha ingrates as well. Anyways, during the next peace, the Torians move their fleet over to the Yor, who get clobbered, but don't lose planets, so the surrender to the only people who look like they have a chance to stand up to the Torians... Me! The wars in that sector have made a morale and military resource available, and now the Yor put me in position to grab them. Sweet.

Shortly afterward, I finally finish up getting to Alliances. I give this tech to the Altairians and the Torians, which is enough to push them to Close, and we all Ally up! It's also interesting to note that around this time, I've managed to buy (from a Minor) the Diplomatic Translators, as well as building the Tri-Strontium and Grav Accel. My diplomacy rating the rest of the game makes me seem godly, so I suspect my buddy the Minor did me a HUGE favor, and never sold it to anyone. My ships seem nearly twice as fast as everyone else, which is Really Cool.

The Second Galactic War

The Altairans get bored, I mean, they decide to rid the universe of evil, and declare war on the Drengin. The Torians, likewise I'm sure, go after the Arses. I've been giving everyone gifts all through this time, but the Drengies NEVER got above wary, plus I've just turned good, so I decide to give up on them. My transports are sitting right across the border (oh yeah, no wonder they were wary ), so I move in... and go for the planet with just a colony ship covering it. My armies win with just 70 million survivors! As if in compensation, they win the next invasion attempt, but clearly, they've lost control of space, and we're taking them down. Everyone starts
building Battleships, but I get 'em last. Since I was the only one who had transports out there, I wonder if the Drengin were out of range? Anyways, Torian BS's do most of the work of keeping space clear, but until my BS's arrive and clear the planets for my troops, we're just sorta playing around making space junk. The Drengin finally surrender to someone else, but it's one of my allies, so I don't know why they think they're spiting me )

Pax Robert

Shortly afterwards, what with a bunch of ships approaching their space, the Arses ask for peace. They won't pay for it, but I figure theirs a decent chance I can ally with them, so I buy them peace with everyone else. I've been aggresively researching trade routes in between better ship tech, and I'm feeling rich. Many more Minors have popped up, and they are paying me big bucks to pump up their tech + I give 'em trade goods to keep them strong against aggressors. They like me so much that if I say "These aren't the droids you're looking for" they say it too ). Anyways, I now spend several years, setting up Trade routes, and gifting the Arses, and they stay at friendly. Gah! I get so fed up, I finally just give them my entire treasury of about 4500 bcs, two recent expensive techs, some ships, some influence. The FINALLY get close, and I ally them!

The Date is May 24th, 2197, Galactic Peace Day.

No minors dead (who count ), the Evil Drengin and Yor exist only in Terran Reservations.

Hello!
I finished in March 2195, and here´s my story about it.

From an economic view, this was the easiest game I ever played. The nearby tech resources helped me to gain a technological lead from the beginning on, so I was able to sell tons of techs for huge amounts of money. Due to my thick purse, I produced almost all trade goods and built most of the galactic wonders.

My alliance strategy was simple: Build all available trade routes to a certain AI, give away a few gifts and wait for close relations. After allying, cut all routes and move to the next race. I kept the minors strong by giving away ships and morale/military improvements.
This strategy worked well with the Arceans, Yor and Drengins. After that, things became complicated. I was driven into war with the good races again and again, so I had to pay my buddies tribute to keep peace with them for a few turns. Unfortunately, the Torians surrendered to the Arceans just when I had set up all my trade routes to them.
Now the Altarians were the only majors left...it was no use to try an alliance. I had to go war with them every few turns because all my partners hated them.
So I decided to conquer them and finish the game a little sooner...in March 2195.
The final result: Alliance with Drengins, Yor, Arceans; Alexians and Carinoids are alive.

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