Fleets and Flag Ships

from Stardock Forums
Okay, after playing tonight I definitely found it to be a pain in the butt to move ships around later in the game when you have a bunch.

So here's what I was thinking:

Flag ship unit.

When you have a flag ship, you can move ships onto a flag ship and with a click combine them (and another click would uncombine them).

When you attack with the flag ship, it picks the best ship in the group for attack.

Downsides:
1) They only get as many moves as the slowest ship in the fleet.

2) On the defense side, the AI gets to choose which ship it wants to attack in the fleet OTHER than special ships (the flag ship itself, the freighter, or transport or colony ship).

Positives:
1) When you attack with a flag ship'd fleet, it picks the best unit in the group to attack. So they are quite formidable on attack.

FAQ:
No, there is no group bonus. Each ship is still treated as an individual unit.

What do you think of this solution.

Another alternative is to simply have it like it was in the OS/2 version: Put all the units on the same spot and group them together and send them to their destination. They're not combined but they fly together as a single mass while on auto pilot.

The reason why I think the flag ship method might be interesting is because in 1.x series we coudl come up with different types of flag ships that do give bonuses to fleets. They would be extraordinarily expensive and the technology would be much more expensive to acquire these better ones. But it would allow military oriented players a secondary route to take - rather than building battle ships and sendin gthem out, build fleets of fighters and battle hammers and send them out.

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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the flagship idea! :CONGRAT:

So can we get this feature implemented sometime tonight yet? ;p


Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
The OS/2 method worked but I stop going to TEAM OS/2 meetings along time ago. The flag ship method allows you to add more to the game.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Even though I still am not able to download the game, I can't help but comment occasionally. This seems like a great idea to me. I know that, in other 4x games, it can become quite annoying having to manually coordinate the large number of ships usually around later in the game. Any tool to simplify this would be welcome.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Flag ships are an excelent idea. They fix the immediate problem and add the possibility of some very interesting extra's for future releases.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
I like it.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Its good - whats the reason for having no group bonus? is it coding for 1.x or is it to concentrate on the flagship bonus thing latter?

Larger groups of warships one would assume have an advantage over smaller groups BUT only if the advantage of numbers is capatalised on tactically by the larger group flagship captain - outflanking multiple ships attackes etc etc.

I had two thoughts for flagships that might be nice:

1) Flagship commander experience bonus to the overall fleet (defensive, offensive, speeed, sensors etc).

2) A set of simple 'convoy' formation options for flagship conmntrolled fleets (i.e. defensive screen, offensive v; protect, convoy, etc) teh trade off;s could be speed v's how much non combat ships are protected in teh formation or how much advantage ships get in a meeting engagement

steevo
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Great idea................
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Wait... so if I have 10 ships attached to a flagship, and they attack a planet or another ship, there's only one attack from the strongest ship, whereas if I have a stack of 10 ships, they can all have a chance to attack? That doesn't sound very useful to me...
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
strongest ship first - then the next (if strongest destroyed) i assume was meant
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I like flagship idea. Lots of later expansion ideas.

When you say strongest ship first does that take current HP into account? A powerful avatar with 1 HP left would not be my idea of the strongest ship!

Paul.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Good point Solitair however we are getting of topic? dont know
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Since a convoy can be uncombined I don't see how this problem would be a real serios one. You convoy till you get to your destination, then if you want to choose which ships attack in what order, you break the convoy up.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
No fleet bonuses because it would turn the game into each side building a mega fleet and going around attacking. That is something i've seen in coutnless strategy games that really ruins the fun for me.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I used to build megafleets on GC/OS2 all the time, even without the specific support.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Why not give Flag Ships a limit to how many ships can group with it? And make it low... like 10 or something. That way they will only be used for escorting Transports, not for making mega-fleets that can crush anything...
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
Why put a limit on the size? I thought the whole idea was to be able to minimize the work it takes to move them to a single target tile.
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
i am not going to post an 'oh my god' thread but 'terror starz' are winning on fleets - please record anyone who votes for teror-starz and complains about clicking three thousand times a turn late game on ships and ignore them. :notsure:
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
I like the idea of the flagship. But, for now I would settle with the OS/2 way of moving a group of ship. Out of habit, I keep expecting the beta to work the OS/2 way.
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Flagships make sense in battle only if the fleet gets some benefit by being able to attack and defend as a group not individually. It's unrealistic to have only one ship "count". On the other hand, a flagship controlled fleet for simple movement without battle makes more sense.
Bob
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
I think the idea is great. You could build all sorts of offensive and defensive specials on the flagship as you noted - it would give a whole different spin to things strategy/tactics wise. And of course it gets rid of the micromanagement to boot. Can't beat two birds with one stone!

Grifman
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
My vote is for easeing ship management.
Ok for grouping ships (no fleet to fleet attacks since that would distort GC focus) but I want that the strongest defend the convoy in attack or defense. special ships should not attack by default.

Eventually I'd apreciate mine layers and sweepers ships.
In naval games they add spicey, so should be for space based...
Mine fields location could be known by all (peace laying) or secret.
Mine fields could be activated/deactivated and should be able to target specific targets.
Mine fields could be discovered by ships with a sensor capability of X at a distance Y (X & Y are function related).
....add yours
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
Even Warlords II Deluxe which had stack bonuses but limited the stack size to 9 in a stack.

I think anything beyond a 9 size group should be subject to attack and defensive penalties due to its size. Plus such a fleet(10+) should lower the morale of nearby planets, but boost the economy somewhat. All those soldiers in one place will have that kind of effect. I've never seen any real fleet penalties in any of these games, and there were plenty of penalties historically.

You could have 1/3 of the ships fight one on one at a time, one right after the other and simulate a fleet battle, if it becomes necessary. No strategy to it, just the same routine repeated several times for one .move....and you could do it on the basis of speed and a random number to determine how many ships fight.
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
How about having the flagship for fleet travel but when forced into battle the fleet separates and the player may choose which ship to protect the fleet. In a situation where the flagship is greatly overmatched, the player may opt to sacrfice a lesser ship to allow escape of the remainder of the fleet. The AI may do the same.
Of course this may end up as a series of engagements between points A and B, but it gives a chance for reinforcements for each side. Does one commit a reserve
battle cruiser or multiple smaller ships to slow the enemy?
Bob
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
Its not something you have to show either, it can be determined by the AI's actions or set up via a set of choices you make beforehand of basic fleet layout and strategy(strongest first, weakest first, protect flagship, etc..). But that may be a 1.x type of thing.